Photography in the freezing cold!

[Asher Kelman]

People take pictures of snow?? :confused: :confused:
Jim,

Funny you asked!

I have been wondering about using lenses with shutters in cold places like Antartica. So obviously one could use barrel lenses with no shutters.

What LF shutters still work in subzero conditions?

Asher :)

[Gordon Moat]

Any Copal should still function, though it might be a good idea to exercise it first. Refer to the Shackelton (spelling?) expedition to see large format in Antarctica. Probably the worst things to deal with would be static and wind. I would worry more about newer style bellows cracking than having shutter problems.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[vinny]

[QUOTE=Gordon Moat;313453]Any Copal should still function, though it might be a good idea to exercise it first.

I always hire a personal trainer to work with my shutters before heading out in the cold. Three sets of 10@1/2 second followed by 3 sets of 10@ 1 second.:)

[Eric James]

...Probably the worst things to deal with would be static and wind...Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

...and fogging/freezing under the cloth. I use a CPR rescue mask fitted with a exhaust tube tunneled out through the right arm of my Black Jacket. Works like a charm, and the ladies really like the look - especially when I'm wearing my 7+ diopter reading glasses.

[Alan Davenport]

In really extreme cold, you should ensure that there is NO lubricant of any kind inside the shutter. Run it dry and accept any resulting wear; it's the lubricants that congeal in the cold and slow things down.

[Asher Kelman]

In really extreme cold, you should ensure that there is NO lubricant of any kind inside the shutter. Run it dry and accept any resulting wear; it's the lubricants that congeal in the cold and slow things down.

How do you "run it dry"? Aren't they all lubricated already?

There must be lubricant that is designed for cold weather.

Asher

[Mick Fagan]

In the seventies the Australian Antarctic cameras that I saw. (I shared a house with an expedition member) had their Nikon shutters on their F cameras, cleaned of lubricant.

I believe that their LF cameras, (some were down there then) used Ilex shutters as they apparently are a dry, or non lubricated shutter, normally.

Mick.

[Gene McCluney]

How do you "run it dry"? Aren't they all lubricated already?

There must be lubricant that is designed for cold weather.

Asher

You can have the lubricant flushed out with zero residue contact cleaner.

[Ole Tjugen]

How do you "run it dry"? Aren't they all lubricated already?

There must be lubricant that is designed for cold weather.

Asher

Graphite is the only thing that works, but dry is usually better. The Norwegian Army runs the rifles dry in winter, it's the only way to get them to work at -40!

[tim atherton]

I've never bothered with any of that and never had a problem. I've photographed down to about -42c and I can tell you, I eventually start to slow down and freeze up before the camera does...

(btw - the modern fabric type bellows found on Canhams, Phillips or from Camera Bellows, + the plasticy looking ones from Toyo do just fine. I've seen other modern bellows crack, and leather ones - usually because of the dressing/treatments get as stiff as hell. I've also had film shatter into a thousand pieces then I put the darkslide back in...)

[Jim Galli]

Jim,

Funny you asked!

I have been wondering about using lenses with shutters in cold places like Antartica. So obviously one could use barrel lenses with no shutters.

What LF shutters still work in subzero conditions?

Asher :)

My Packard shutter works fine when it's cold. But yours truly is mostly a warm weather photog. This time of year is great for making some paper negs up in the studio with the big #8 studio. ;)

[David A. Goldfarb]

Graphite is the only thing that works, but dry is usually better. The Norwegian Army runs the rifles dry in winter, it's the only way to get them to work at -40!

Just in case of an invasion by a Russian convict regiment, or was Norway preparing to invade Siberia?

[tim atherton]

Just in case of an invasion by a Russian convict regiment, or was Norway preparing to invade Siberia?

Used to be that Allied Command Europe Mobile Force (Land), (AMF(L)) had as one of their major roles being to operate in winter in Norway to keep those pesky Ruskies at bay.

The Brits and Canadians (and the US if I recall correctly) were an integral part of that along with the Norwegian Army.

Spent an interesting winter up there once (most of it ice climbing... :-) )

I think they still train up there when they aren't in the desert

[Ole Tjugen]

Just in case of an invasion by a Russian convict regiment, or was Norway preparing to invade Siberia?

That depends on who is asking...

But at the time when I was there, our big neighbor in the east was still called the Soviet Union.

[Struan Gray]

Used to be that Allied Command Europe Mobile Force (Land), (AMF(L)) had as one of their major roles being to operate in winter in Norway to keep those pesky Ruskies at bay.

The real idea was more prosaic: harass the Russians long enough for the US Cavalry to get across the pond and save our arses (again :-). 'Calvary' in this case being a Marine Amphibious Brigade.

The assumption was that the Russians would only want to control the major towns, so the Royal Marines and the Norwegian Army and Reserves spend a lot of time learning how to hide in snow holes, popping up now and then to blow up vital communications.

In my day AMFL were there too, but the units assigned to it rotated so fast that they couldn't really act as a repository of knowledge. The RM units did that, with the Mountain Leader Cadre working as the specialists in winter warefare and training everybody else.



Spent an interesting winter up there once (most of it ice climbing... :-) )

I went downhill skiiing.

Oh, and took some snow pictures too. Pentax 110, so I can't show them here :-)

[Ted Harris]

Tim has it right that we will likely feel the cold before the gear does. I usually wear a parka rated to -40ºC that has enough exterior pockets that I can keep film and lens in a pocket until I need same.

[cyrus]

I didn't have a lot of success (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=204743#post204743)wth a Speed Graphic but the weather was not nice at all either and the air was too thin so I didn't have a lot of patience. I'm more of a warm-weater guy...

[Hollis]

You could always lube your lenses with whiskey, keeps me from freezing in the cold.

[Darren H]

For what it is worth, I have been working in Wisconsin and have been out with my camera in some cold temps that had air temps at -10 or so and wind chills that went to -20 or lower. The cold has made me work slower, but has not stopped me. I am usually out for 4-6 hours at a stretch.

I do keep telling myself not to breathe on the lens but I never had issue with frozen shutters.

I leave with warm gear. I carry everything in a LowePro backpack. I only open the pack to get gear, and always close it up hoping to retain whatever warmth it has. I have left the camera on the tripod for upto an hour or so, but if I am moving I always pack it back up.

I use an Arca Swiss with the leather wide angle bellows and stays fairly supple in the cold. I do notice that the focusing knobs seem to turn a little slower, but never so bad they froze.

My bigger issue with cold was how quickly it drained the batteries in my DSLR. The 4x5 did much better.

I keep a photography blog about my 4x5 and I have had a few posts about the cold here.

http://thetravelingcamera.blogspot.com/

I cannot say how you would fair in the arctic but in the upper midwest for a day, I think you are fine.

Have fun!

[Asher Kelman]

If you do carry a flask of spirits be sure to carry it in an inside the jacket location. Carrying it outside lets it get to air temperature. At minus 20-50 farenheit you will take a swig and possibly freeze your throat.
My shutters are working OK and they have been used in minus 35 here in North Dakota. They will get in a bit of work tomorrow as we are currently having a great blizzard. 30-50mph winds, temp dropped from 14 above to minus 4 in the past 3 hours and projected to go to minus 22 in the next three. Should be some great show sculpting and drifts to photograph in the morning. Glad I have a good block heater on the truck.
Most modern shutters work OK in the cold as the newer lubricants used don't get as stiff as some of the older stuff, per a few repair guys I know who work on LF gear in these colder locations.
They say 'if you can take it the camera and lenses can'.
Thanks Dakota and everyone else for the feedback, especially on not drinking subzero whiskey! BTW, too much whiskey will rapidly chill the body anyway as the body heat gets sent to the blood vessels in the skin. This is fine for when you are returning to base camp!

Asher

[Ole Tjugen]

... This is fine for when you are returning to base camp! ...

It's fine when you are back at base camp, the fire/heater is going, and you have made sure there is sufficient fuel to last you through the night.

Spirits outdoors in very cold weather is a very bad idea, even if you're within sight of "base camp".

[mrladewig]

I've been shooting in quite cold temps for the area this winter. Lots of -10F to 5F days. Other than one shutter that needed CLA and got it, everything else has so far done well in the cold. Keeping my hands going is the hardest part.

Shot right around 0F.
http://www.ladewigs.com/Gallery/d/694-4/RRR_20080121_05.jpg

Mel-

[Carsten Wolff]

I've used Copals, Seikos, Compurs and Soviet-era shutters, all without ill-effect in Antarctica at least to -30C/-22F. Shutters are almost the least of your problems down there. Just make sure they're in good nick in the first place (i.e. have been serviced once in a while and aren't gunked up with oil) and you have backup, e.g. in the form of alternative lens choices if the worst comes to pass.

Bigger problems can be caused by: Changing from heated huts/vehicles to the cold and back (condensation), static electricity due to lack of humidity in the air, batteries (e.g. in your light meter (i.e. forget alkalines)), breath-ice on you GG (this is a big one!), fingers operating controls without gloves :), stiff bellows and controls, plastic bits shattering (I've seen someone else's tripod head disintegrate that way), etc.... esp. not easy to do LF down there, (but doable none the less). But Hats off to Frank Hurley et al.!!!! (not that Hurley would have had issues with batteries, or plastic :))... and to you, Asher, if you're contemplating a visit with your Chamonix....