Bad FP4+, Look for advice

[Paul Metcalf]

I am now at the 1/2 way point through a box of 25-count 8x10 Ilford FP4+, and I'm noticing significant scratches, swirly in pattern, repeated at inch or so intervals along one side of the film, and straight scratch lines running lengthwise, both on the non-emulsion side (emulsion is unbleamished). Previous processed sheets are ok, and my process is unchanged/identical. Scratches look like what I might expect from a production machine that has bad/dirty rollers. I wouldn't imagine that a single box of film might have different production runs in it, but...

I haven't printed any of these yet, but I would guess that the scratches would show up even though they're not on the emulsion side as they are easily visible to the naked eye.

Question, do I have a case to take this to the local store I purchased it at (sans any receipt, but I do frequent it frequently, and also despite the typical "no return on sensitive materials" sign) or is this something to take up with the manufacturer (somehow)? My first bad-film experience, so looking for advice. Thanks.

[Ralph Barker]

I'd suggest you contact Ilford/Harman tech support via the "Contact Us" link at the top of their Web page:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/home.asp

[domenico Foschi]

Paul, try to scan them and see if the scratches show.
You might be lucky.
Sometime I notice scratches in the back side of the film due to loading and unloading or processing and who know what else and so far I have never seen a scratch in the prints.
In my opinion the scratch in the back is not as important as the one in the emulsion.

[Frank Petronio]

They mis-cut 4x5 HP-5 on one box and mis-boxed two others (no double box protection). I wrote and rec'vd a "we'll look into this, sorry" both times.

And never heard another thing. I wanted to suport Ilford because they made a commitment to B&W but...

I went back to Kodak. Never had a QC problem with Kodak in 24 years.

[Gene McCluney]

If your film has a manufacturing defect, Ilford/Harman will replace it. You need to contact Harman, not your distributor.

[domenico Foschi]

Recently, actually I have been encountering a problem in HP5+where the film has a very pronounced bent in the emulsion direction, making it very hard to have the all image in focus.
Has anybody had the same problem?
What is Ilford doing?

[Ash]

I think Ilford is the old faithful dog, on his last legs, being dragged out for a walk. All he wants to do is rest in front of the fire and sleep. But he's being pulled along when he can't cope in the current climate, and his life is coming close to an end.

We all love that dog but we're only hurting ourselves prolonging it's life.


I dunno, that's how I see it. It's like a pet. I love Ilford, but it seems on some of their products they are really dragging their heels cos they don't have the man-power any more. I want to support them, I love the film. But do they have the energy to keep up a good level of service?

[keeds]

What the chuff! One or two people have a problem and the whole world is caving in. I use Ilford film in sizes from 35mm to 8x10, Fibre and RC paper and their chemicals and I have never had a problem with their QC. Contact Simon Galley and I'm sure he will do his best to get this resolved. Please lets not get into a bad mouthing exercise of one of the few companies that seem to be supporting our activities...

[phil sweeney]

Scratches on the base side will show up in the highlights. I'd develop one unexposed sheet to rule any other problems. I had a box a few years ago that had what appeared to be roller marks on a few in the box. I threw the film away.

[Ash]

Keeds,

As I said, I want to support Ilford. In fact I use Ilford whenever I can throughout formats. I prefer their films to any other brand. However in college there was a semi-fogged box of 100 sheets, a total waste - it couldn't have been the students due to the type of film damage/fogging.

Medium and small format they are great, but Ilford need to have either MORE support from us on LF to get their act together - more money = better - or else let it die, which I don't want to see either.

[Michael Graves]

I use Ilford almost exclusively for film. To date, I have seen no problems with 5x7 or 8x10. I've used two boxes of 4x5 in the last year with no problems. However, all manufacturers have glitches. My last two boxes of Kentmere paper were badly fogged coming out of the box. I just purchased a box of that Russian paper everybody was touting in an earlier thread. THe 11x14 paper measurs 12.75 x 14.25. But the paper is good. Rather have it odd sized than fogged. If we give up on everybody who has a bad shipment or two, we will end up making our own film and paper. Imagine how quickly most of us would have to give up on ourselves after that.

[tim atherton]

I am now at the 1/2 way point through a box of 25-count 8x10 Ilford FP4+, and I'm noticing significant scratches, swirly in pattern, repeated at inch or so intervals along one side of the film, and straight scratch lines running lengthwise, both on the non-emulsion side (emulsion is unbleamished). Previous processed sheets are ok, and my process is unchanged/identical. Scratches look like what I might expect from a production machine that has bad/dirty rollers. I wouldn't imagine that a single box of film might have different production runs in it, but...

I haven't printed any of these yet, but I would guess that the scratches would show up even though they're not on the emulsion side as they are easily visible to the naked eye.

Question, do I have a case to take this to the local store I purchased it at (sans any receipt, but I do frequent it frequently, and also despite the typical "no return on sensitive materials" sign) or is this something to take up with the manufacturer (somehow)? My first bad-film experience, so looking for advice. Thanks.

I had exactly this problem on two 25 sht boxes of FP4 (there's a thread on it somewhere - also heard back from a number of others with similar problems) - I also found thmb prints on some of mine...

Did the usual thing, contacted Ilford, also got the "we'll look into it, sorry" that Frank did - never heard back, despite further emails to them, never got an offer of replacement.

As much as I like Ilford film, essentially, their quality control ain't what it used to be. Not quite as bad as Efke yet though. The "old dog" metaphor is spot on.

[domenico Foschi]

I contacted Ilford last night about my problem and this morning they replied to me with a series of questions to which I replied.
I will keep you posted if this level of customer service is constant.
So far so good.

[Michael Alpert]

Recently, actually I have been encountering a problem in HP5+where the film has a very pronounced bent in the emulsion direction, making it very hard to have the all image in focus.
Has anybody had the same problem?
What is Ilford doing?

Domenico,

I've had this problem with T-Max 100 in 8x10. I assumed it was film that came from the center of a roll. I just threw it away and forgot about it until I read this thread. I think this discussion is problematic. Every manufacturer has minor problems sometimes. The scratches and bending toward the emulsion side sound like rare problems that are hard to detect in manufacture. Overall, both Kodak and Ilford are making good products.

[Ralph Barker]

If we are to "black-list" manufacturers that have an occasional manufacturing glitch, should we also black-list people who occasionally make silly remarks? ;)

[Mark Sampson]

Ralph, of course not. No one's paying money for, or trying to make pictures with, anyone's silly remarks. Including this one...
It's true that all manufacturers will make mistakes sometimes. The real question seems to be "Will they stand behind their product, when the customer reports a problem?"

[davidb]

well I am having some issues as well. I am having some dust and pinhole problems with my 4x5 film.

Let me start by saying my film holders have been vaccuumed and that they are kept in ziplock bags as well as a soft case. I also use a water stop bath.

I have taken the responsibility for the problems but I highly doubt it.

I do know there is a forum member who contacted Simon about a year ago with some issues and Simon sent a new box of 100 sheets.

I will probably be sending my film to the US distributor to see what they say.

[domenico Foschi]

Domenico,

I've had this problem with T-Max 100 in 8x10. I assumed it was film that came from the center of a roll. I just threw it away and forgot about it until I read this thread. I think this discussion is problematic. Every manufacturer has minor problems sometimes. The scratches and bending toward the emulsion side sound like rare problems that are hard to detect in manufacture. Overall, both Kodak and Ilford are making good products.

I agree with you Michael,
but even though my tight budget commands me to take in consideration the loss of money, what concerns me more is the problems I encounter in the darkroom in trying to print these negatives.
I am sure you know how it feels not to be able to print an image you really like.
Especially if between these images there is a great keeper.
Darkroom work is pretty frustrating by itself, and since I have a glassless negative carrier, I have no hope to print this negatives in the near future.
Even if I tape the negative to the carrier, the tension will show right in the center of the area.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Man, I shoot several hundred sheets of Ilford year in 4X5 and 5X7 and have never encountered these problems. I must be lucky.

[domenico Foschi]

Man, I shoot several hundred sheets of Ilford year in 4X5 and 5X7 and have never encountered these problems. I must be lucky.

There is always a first time, this was mine.:)

[davidb]

I am going to contact Simon. My problems are continuing.

[Frank Petronio]

Let's see, 3 bad boxes out of about 25 boxes of Ilford film I purchased last year

versus 100's of boxes of Kodak stuff over 20-plus years with zero QC problems...

Which is why I went back to Kodak.

[davidb]

Well before I change anything, I need to talk to Simon.

I emailed him my details and the box info and maybe he has an answer.

[Toyon]

I think Ilford is the old faithful dog, on his last legs, being dragged out for a walk. All he wants to do is rest in front of the fire and sleep. But he's being pulled along when he can't cope in the current climate, and his life is coming close to an end.

We all love that dog but we're only hurting ourselves prolonging it's life.


I dunno, that's how I see it. It's like a pet. I love Ilford, but it seems on some of their products they are really dragging their heels cos they don't have the man-power any more. I want to support them, I love the film. But do they have the energy to keep up a good level of service?

Irresponsible babbling.

[davidb]

I emailed Simon and he responsed quickly saying technical services will contact me about it. I will let you know how it goes.

[Paul Metcalf]

davidb-
Do you have a specific email for Simon? Thanks.

[davidb]

As posted on APUG:

simon.galley@harmantechnology.com