A Cardboard Box Arrived from China! Chamonix 8x10! [Archive]

Asher Kelman

22-Jan-2008, 19:08

Sweeeeeeeet. So what is the price difference between the Chamonix and Shen Hao 8x10? Badger Graphics has the Shen at just under $1900 USD.
The Chamonix 8x10 from my notes was months ago $2625. As you know the dollar has devalued so that prices of all cameras from Japan and China might be subject to upward migration.

The Shen Hao is a well built camera according to several people who have it, but they say that the Chamonix is built so mcuh better. My concern is to be able to use Polaroid film, regualr film, 4x5, my Graflex rollfilm backs, a digital stiching back and so forth.

I was disappointed that a Shen Hao (real or clone) used by Marko was not made accurately enough to take Garflok attachements. Marko's camera was beautiful and for 4x5 film, I'm sure it's perfect. However, it was not a precision camera. I don't want to knock Shen Hao's standing. After all it is used by many photographers, making great pictures. Also, Badger Graphic is an excellent place to buy from and will look after you. One has to wait for a Chamonix as there is limited supply. The Shen Hao is in stock are all probably fine. Still, if you want to use anything else, make sure that the measurements fit your existing or planned favorite accessories.

Good luck,

Asher

Asher Kelman

22-Jan-2008, 19:14

Nice one Asher, however you don t want to neglect the violin. :)
How did you know?

My new model is a violinist! She's quite talented and well paid. I usually listen to my son's cello, however, for this young lady, violin is appropriate. One has to do the right thing!

Asher

Asher Kelman

22-Jan-2008, 19:22

Asher,

This is great news! Congratulations! I wish you well in your effort to go retro and be photo-chemically dependent!

I do hope Mark that I might be able to get pointers from you. I so enjoyed watching you work with your Sinar at the Walt Disney Concert Hall Shoot. I look to seeing your photographs.

For B&W, I see no issue but for color, my previous experience with chemistry was painful, adjusting filters gave me double vision. I will start off sending out the color film as I want to do contact printing and get set up for platinum and other transition metals.

This is very exciting for me! I'm very grateful to be able to find out the ins and outs of this beautiful work of hand.

Asher

Jim Galli

22-Jan-2008, 19:28

Bravo! What a gorgeous machine. Had the excitement of a box from Chamonix two times now! The words "work of art" come to mind each time.

Jan Pedersen

22-Jan-2008, 19:32

Congrats Asher, can't wait for my blonde model to ship.
Please post more photos.

jan

J_Tardiff

22-Jan-2008, 19:41

Oh, this is bad. That is a gorgeous camera.

I am still in the market for a 5x7 and I adore my 4x5 Chamonix.

Not good at all.

JT

BarryS

22-Jan-2008, 21:01

Extreme large format envy! It looks like a beautiful machine and maybe I'll get an 8x10 one day. Please post more pics when you get a chance.

ericantonio

22-Jan-2008, 22:21

Extreme large format envy!
You need to say to yourself "its just a box that holds film, its just a box that holds film, its just a box that holds film" :)

But its really really really nice looking box that holds film!!!
I must..have....a.....box......like........that............

Quick honey, how much we have in our 401K. The kids are going to a state college dang it. Maybe even a 2 year :)

Asher Kelman

22-Jan-2008, 22:28

You need to say to yourself "its just a box that holds film, its just a box that holds film, its just a box that holds film" :)

..and a lens and film holders and so forth.

However, this set up is very light, packs nicely in the bag. I haven't worked out where I'll carry the lenses. Each thing alone seems prertty reasonable. The challenge it seems to is avoid schlepping more and more and more.

Asher

Songyun

22-Jan-2008, 22:33

Asher more photos please....

walter23

22-Jan-2008, 23:23

What kind of lens board does it take?

Open the sucker up and photograph all its private parts.

Marko

22-Jan-2008, 23:56

I was disappointed that a Shen Hao (real or clone) used by Marko was not made accurately enough to take Garflok attachements. Marko's camera was beautiful and for 4x5 film, I'm sure it's perfect. However, it was not a precision camera.

I was disappointed with that failure too. Enough so that I sold the camera shortly after that outing. One of the reasons why I bought it and not the Tachihara was precisely the international back and if it doesn't do what it was made for, than it becomes a liability.

But, and this may be crucial - that camera was not an original Shen-Hao, but a knock off under the name of Sunfoto. Although the cameras appear identical, in everything except in a few minor, purely cosmetic details, there is a real possibility that the original might have better tolerances, or even that mine had that one little fault. I simply don't know and I wasn't interested to try again.

BTW, the fog image I posted in another thread was made using that camera with a 150mm Sironar-N on it.

Gordon Moat

23-Jan-2008, 00:03

I recall one other individual early on the Shen Hao Users Group (prior to Yahoo move) that got a Sunfoto knock-off of the HZX45A-II. Seems that there were issues of build quality on that one too. I guess the surprising thing is why someone would buy a knock-off of what is already a very low priced 4x5. Just for the record, I have a Polaroid 405, Polaroid 550, Linhof Super Rollex, Kodak Readyload, and Fuji Quickload holders to go with my Shen-Hao, and they all fit precisely . . . now if I could only get away from that compelling need to have all those in my gear bag at the same time.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

Nick_3536

23-Jan-2008, 00:33

I guess the surprising thing is why someone would buy a knock-off

The surprising thing is anybody would blame the company for the knockoff :confused: I guess we should wander around the flea market making a list of the knockoffs and not buying any of those products either? :confused:

Asher Kelman

23-Jan-2008, 00:45

Asher more photos please.... Will do!

What kind of lens board does it take?

Open the sucker up and photograph all its private parts.

Walter, it takes Sinar boards and so far one I bought on eBay, fits fine, but we'll come to that later. Hugo is getting me Chamonix boards!

Now Walter, the private parts are now no longer so. I'll show what I think is significant at each stage. I've taken the risk of setting up the camera on a Manfrotto Carbon fiber tripod, after checking with the muses that it would be safe inside! So let's look at the mechanisms for lengthening the bellows.

First, not marked, theres' a series of 5 holes into which the front standard can fit and be secured with the black knob in at the lower open base of the front standard.

Next, at the rear of the camera there are two independant ways of adding length. The rear walnut sliders take each side of the rear bellow forward or back. A little assynetry allows about a 15 degree lateral reaer swing too.

The fine worm drive place center below the rear standard, allows for both major forward movement of the machined metal base holding the front standard as well as providing convenient and subtle focus adjustments too. that I still have to test with a lens!

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/Chamonix_Extention_Adjustments.jpg

I hope this helps.

Asher

Next I wil deal with how true the Camera is!

audioexcels

23-Jan-2008, 07:20

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/Chamonix_MG_3336_Parcel (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4853)

I'll be reviewing the camera as I get set it up, add my lenses, take Polaroids, film and get into printing. I'll also try out a stitching back. It's ambitious for me since I have to rebuild my darkroom from scratch. For now: Polaroid, film with contact prints and also scanning and printing either chemistry or inkjet. For sure I have a lot of mistakes to make!

Asher

Asher, what is the weight and cost of the 8X10 model?

Colin Graham

23-Jan-2008, 07:33

Sorry to be this guy, but this (http://science.howstuffworks.com/gear5.htm) is a worm drive. What you have there is a lead screw.

Ok, I feel better now. Great looking camera, btw! :-}

Asher Kelman

23-Jan-2008, 10:50

Sorry to be this guy, but this (http://science.howstuffworks.com/gear5.htm) is a worm drive. What you have there is a lead screw.

Ok, I feel better now. Great looking camera, btw! :-}
Thanks colin! :) That is one beautiful invention. I didn't realize that worm gears have a slant to the thread that makes the screw easy to turn but the wheel can't turn the screw easily. Also I learned that this is what is used to tune the strings of a double base.

Asher

davidb

23-Jan-2008, 10:54

How about a few photos with the bellows extended?

buze

23-Jan-2008, 11:48

Marko

23-Jan-2008, 11:55

I guess the surprising thing is why someone would buy a knock-off of what is already a very low priced 4x5.

a) For the same reason why someone would buy a cheap 4x5 to begin with - because it is cheaper.

b) For the same reason why someone would buy a used 4x5 camera, especially a wooden one - because it is cheaper.

c) After so many discussions on this board about finding cheaper cameras, lenses and films, buying a cheap knockoff of a cheap camera would seem to be quite in keeping with the general propensity of this forum's membership, wouldn't it?

:D

Now seriously, not all of us are professional photographers and we can't capitalize the equipment nor can we expense the materials. Anything we buy is out of pocket cost. So it is only natural that we would be careful about every purchase. When you browse your local photo swap meet and see a brand new knockoff that looks exactly like the original down to (almost) every detail but which costs a quarter of a grand less, wouldn't you get curious too?

And here is an additional reason: Especially if you never had a wooden field camera and are wondering if such a concept is a good match for you or not in the first place.

Like Asher said, this camera was beautiful in its own way and it answered a lot of questions for me and raised several completely new ones during those few months I've had it. This includes the materials, quality level AND the format itself. All in all, it played a very successful educational role for very little money which I was able to easily recover in full when I sold it. Thanks to this experience, next time I decide to buy a field camera, it may even be a different format altogether.

To conclude, my comment was just an aside, so let's not derail this thread any further and let's return the focus to Asher's beautiful acquisition. If anybody's interested in discussing the merits of cheap cameras and even cheaper knockoffs, it's easy to start a new thread.

Marko

Asher Kelman

23-Jan-2008, 12:53

How about a few photos with the bellows extended?
Of course, David!

First here's the detail of the front standard and behind on each sides there's the slot in the Black Walnut that allows the bellows to extend. This gives about 15 degrees of rear swing too when used asymmetrically. Notice the front standard is set in the 2cd threaded hole in the machined base. This is a simple procedure and allows the lens to be progressively set back,as you wish. The wing nut is also undone to put the camera away and then the front standard is inverted (without the lens) to lie on the base. The camera is then folded shut.

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/Chamonix_MG_3435_Front_Standard.jpg

Now to your request, the camera fully extended:

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/Chamonix_MG_3446_Full_extention.jpg

The Specifications for bellows total draw 680mm
Measured fully extended 673mm
Specifications for minimum extension 95mm
Measured minimum mm

The missing 7mm extension is accounted for perhaps in where one measures. I did my best to measure from the back of the lensboard to the front of the ground glass.

I have yet to mount a heavy lens, but the Chamonix 8x10, so far, appears close to being true at full extension and pretty sturdy. I used a large spirit level andf tested ther camera base and back for it being orthogonal. (The with the front standard in the second peg hole and the rear focus knob in its default fully retracted position.)

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/Chamonix_MG_3442_open_2cd_peg_hole.jpg

The tiny ~ 12mm level bubbles are reasonably accurate but not perfect. Using a large spirit level, when the camera is not fully extended, the camera is perfectly true. That is, when the front base is absolutely horizontal, the back is perfectly at 90 degrees.

At this point, of course, the camera would like the Ries 200 tripod coming from Scott and I'd add a hanging weight. Although for studio work, this Manfrotto might do fine.

Asher

Jim Fitzgerald

23-Jan-2008, 13:38

Asher, she sure is nice1 Congrats!

Jim

Asher Kelman

23-Jan-2008, 14:04

Asher, she sure is nice1 Congrats!

Jim
Not hand built by me, but I'm still thrilled!

Asher

Amund BLix Aaeng

23-Jan-2008, 15:11

Have you tried the 4x5-back with a Polaroid 545 holder yet? I looks like it won`t be usable with it.

Asher Kelman

23-Jan-2008, 15:22

Have you tried the 4x5-back with a Polaroid 545 holder yet? I looks like it won`t be usable with it.

Oops! For some reason there may be two threads. So please post here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=32560&page=3)

Asher

Asher Kelman

23-Jan-2008, 15:24

Have you tried the 4x5-back with a Polaroid 545 holder yet? I looks like it won`t be usable with it.

I'll try it ASAP! :)

Asher

Amund BLix Aaeng

23-Jan-2008, 15:28

I'll try it ASAP! :)

Asher

Good :) The reason I ask, I that on the 5x7 Shen Hao I had, the 4x5-back was of similar construction and Polaroid 545 couldn`t be used.

Asher Kelman

23-Jan-2008, 15:48

Good :) The reason I ask, I that on the 5x7 Shen Hao I had, the 4x5-back was of similar construction and Polaroid 545 couldn`t be used.Amund,

The same with the 4x5 reduction back for the Chamonix 8x10. We]ll need the 5mm frame for the Graflok to be raised about 7mm. I'll tell Hugo.

4x5 film golders, of course work fine as does the 6x6 Graflok 120 film holder.

Will add pics,

Asher

Amund BLix Aaeng

23-Jan-2008, 15:53

Amund,

The same with the 4x5 reduction back for the Chamonix 8x10. We]ll need the 5mm frame for the Graflok to be raised about 7mm. I'll tell Hugo.

4x5 film golders, of course work fine as does the 6x7 Graflok 120 film holder.

Will add pics,

Asher

Ah, just as I suspected then... At least you don`t have to discover this the way I did, a long way from home with only the Polaroid 545 and a buch of Readyloads :rolleyes:

:)

Asher Kelman

23-Jan-2008, 18:19

This illustrates the 4x5 reducing back. Sometimes we want to use the LF movements but shoot a small format. Well Chamonix makes a 4x5 reducing back with a Graflok reception for various films that I'll be testing.

So here's the adapter with a carbon fiber protector over the ground glass:

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/Chamonix_MG_3356_4x5Adapter_glass protector.jpg

Here's the ground glass and the composition guides for different formats:

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/Chamonix_MG_3471_4x5groundglass.jpg

Here's the Graflex 220 6x6 rollfilm adapter for using 120 film.

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/Chamonix_MG_3497_Graflok220filmback.jpg

A perfect fit! Well it's not surpising saince Hugo went to the trouble of getting them to fit it to this actual rollfilm holder. Thanks so much!

Last, here's one small issue:

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/Chamonix_MG_3484_Polaroid4x5.jpg

The 4x5 Polaroid adapter cannot go in straight because it needs an extra 5-7mm to clear the wood frame. Normall on a 4x5 camera, this would be to the side of the camera. The simple solution is to accomodate the Polaroid holder bulbous end by increasing the outside depth of the 4.2"x4.2" frame holding the Graflok setup. This is actually a minor issue for me right now since, my "Polaroid" for checking the shots is the 5D attached to an adapter which I'll discuss later. Still, I want to use 4x5 Polaroids for some projects. Let's see what is possible for a fix for this.

Also I am set up for 8x10 Polaroid. Now that is real Polaroid, but unfortunately very expensive.

Asher

domenico Foschi

23-Jan-2008, 18:58

my keyboard is wet.....

audioexcels

23-Jan-2008, 19:31

the 8x10 is about $2600 last time I asked. Given the exceptional quality of the 4x5, I was very tempted to get a 8x10 too and replace the Tachihara, but $2.6k is about $1k too much. Hopefully they will start making 'batches' like they do for the 4x5, bringing the prices down...

2.6K??? That's rediculous. Is it triple extension with a 5X7 and 4X5 reduction back, along with holders included?

I agree that 1.6K in line with the pricing of the 4X5 seems reasonable, but 2.6K is a joke. You can buy brand new Philips and Wehman 8X10's for this price...

Hugo Zhang

23-Jan-2008, 20:43

Chamonix is a small shop with half dozen craftmen. All its cameras are handmade. It has no plan to expand its capacity even the demand for its products is getting bigger everyday.

Can Chamonix make a 8x10 camera under 1.6K? Surely it can. But it would be a different camera with parts ourtsourced and mass produced, with materials less expensive and labor less intensive. That camera WILL produce equally good images, since camera is just a box with a lens to catch light. One day we may just make such a camera, but that time has not arrived yet.

One thing I am quite certain is that Asher wouldn't have waited so long and would not have such exquisite pleasure looking at it and taking pictures of it and caressing it with his impatient hands.

We frequently see other cameras on the used market. Time will test the affection of Chamonix users for their cameras. But there is one thing I know: Asher is not going to sell this 8x10, even you dangle a check of $3,000 in front of his face. Not now. He is still in his honeymoon.

Am I right, Asher?

BarryS

23-Jan-2008, 21:18

...I agree that 1.6K in line with the pricing of the 4X5 seems reasonable, but 2.6K is a joke. You can buy brand new Philips and Wehman 8X10's for this price...

I talked to Dick Phillips last week and he was getting ready to send out the *last* batch of 8x10 Explorers (@$2600 ea). The last Compact II's went out months ago--so Phillips 8x10's are out of production. The Wehman seems like an interesting machine, but I believe the Chamonix is a more refined camera. The nicer of the two Shen Hao 8x10's sells for $2K, but it's still heavier than the Chamonix. I'd also love a lower priced Chamonix 8x10, but the cost doesn't seem completely out of line considering the features and quality of the camera. I do think they could sell a lot more if they could hit the $2K mark.

Songyun

23-Jan-2008, 21:49

Asher Kelman

24-Jan-2008, 00:58

my keyboard is wet.....
Every time you post I look at your photographs again and enjoy that white flower, the leaves and Venice. One of my pleasures in being here! Your pictures don't seem to have individual titles but are in sets. Anyway, your work is special.

Asher

domenico Foschi

24-Jan-2008, 01:25

Right,... you are saying this because I use Speed graphics with taped shutters and a 2D with rheumatoid arthritis and you,...you have a brand spanking new Chamonix!!:)
Thank you, Asher, that was a great compliment.
Actually, if you point the cursor in the images in my website you will see the title dropping from the upper left corner,..et voila"!

Asher Kelman

24-Jan-2008, 01:47

Right,... you are saying this because I use Speed graphics with taped shutters and a 2D with rheumatoid arthritis and you,...you have a brand spanking new Chamonix!!:)
Thank you, Asher, that was a great compliment.
Well, it's nice for you to be happy for me! I'll bring my camera for you to try it out if you wish!

Asher

domenico Foschi

24-Jan-2008, 01:57

Well, it's nice for you to be happy for me! I'll bring my camera for you to try it out if you wish!

Asher

I didn't realize you are in LA.
Maybe we should meet and bring along that certain camera dealer with us....

audioexcels

24-Jan-2008, 02:01

I talked to Dick Phillips last week and he was getting ready to send out the *last* batch of 8x10 Explorers (@$2600 ea). The last Compact II's went out months ago--so Phillips 8x10's are out of production. The Wehman seems like an interesting machine, but I believe the Chamonix is a more refined camera. The nicer of the two Shen Hao 8x10's sells for $2K, but it's still heavier than the Chamonix. I'd also love a lower priced Chamonix 8x10, but the cost doesn't seem completely out of line considering the features and quality of the camera. I do think they could sell a lot more if they could hit the $2K mark.

I can say for sure that the Chamonix is a delicious camera and well worth the price, but just going on what you get with a 4X5 camera...doesn't make sense to me logistically speaking with regards to the 8X10 price. As an example, look at how much the best Philips 4X5 sells for...or another similarly "exotic" camera...they usually go for about $1600-$2000. The Chamonix is on a very high level when it comes to "budget" priced cameras. Seems more like a $1500 4X5 than a $700 one. This is around the price of the Tach and Shen 4X5 which is why I think it should go something like $700 for 4X5 and $1500ish for 8X10. I know they can whip out a massive batch of 8X10's at $1500 and make a killing like they are doing ith the 4X5's.

Just my .02

But at 2.5K, I'm plenty happy with an F-line w/8X10 back and multiple reduction backs (all part of a project to come) and for about $1700 vs. $2500 and this is 3 different formats and not one. But DIY'ing isn't everyone's thing;):):)

evan clarke

24-Jan-2008, 04:34

After the great reception the 4x5s received, I think it will be more like an increase in the price rather than a drop in price of the 8x10. The 4x5s are just worth more than their price...EC

Sal Santamaura

24-Jan-2008, 08:59

...Can Chamonix make a 8x10 camera under 1.6K? Surely it can. But it would be a different camera with parts ourtsourced and mass produced, with materials less expensive and labor less intensive. That camera WILL produce equally good images, since camera is just a box with a lens to catch light. One day we may just make such a camera, but that time has not arrived yet...My sincere advice to Chamonix is: don't do it. Stick with your "utmost quality" model rather than degrade the Chamonix reputation by selling inferior products. Your craftsmen will be fully employed regardless of the higher prices. There's no shortage of work at Ebony. :)

buze

24-Jan-2008, 09:12

Well, my opinion is that there must be some incentive to get people like me (and other amateurs) to buy new gear; otherwise we can continue endlessly buying the same second-third hand gear and drive manufacturers in the wall -- not willingly mind you, but the budget is limited for many of us.

The 4x5 price point is great, it immediately triggered an order for /many/ people, plenty of them wouldn't have bought an Ebony (I certainly woudln't !) and I was reasonably happy waiting for a second hand field or other to replace my Crown.

Instead, I've put new money into the market. The LF market just /grew/ that little bit more just by this action. And I would also do it for a 8x10, to replace my second-third(?) Tachi 8x10 if I had a chance to do so.

Sal Santamaura

24-Jan-2008, 09:52

Well, my opinion is that there must be some incentive to get people like me (and other amateurs) to buy new gear...plenty of them wouldn't have bought an Ebony (I certainly woudln't !)...I'd wager that most of Ebony's sales are to amateurs. Ebony seems to sell everything it can make, and it's about as small as Hugo's description of the Chamonix shop. I suggest Chamonix take the same path rather than making compromises simply to reduce cost. It's in a unique niche that, once left, isn't easily returned to.

The market apparently has demand for cameras in all price ranges. Some who are after a new 8x10 can't or won't pay for a Chamonix or Ebony. Other manufacturers' products might hit the desired price point. There's room for all makers and users in the "new gear" arena.

Jan Pedersen

24-Jan-2008, 10:23

Well, somehow my post got lost when the double thread was moved but i will try again.
I agree with Sal about maintaining a high level of craftmanship on the Chamonix cameras, that was one of my reasons for ordering the 8x10 Chamonix and not the less expensive Shen-Hao. Not that i think there is anything wrong with the SH, i own and use their 4x5 and is happy with that. The Chamonix is going to be the last 8x10 that i buy and i wanted quality and a fine looking camera which i believe is a strong selling point for Chamonix.

Hugo Zhang

24-Jan-2008, 12:50

Let me try to explain the "mispricing" of the 8x10 camera a little.

I have to go back three years ago when Chamonix got started.

Hass, the owner and designer of Chamonix cameras, is an avid photographer as well as a passionate mountaineer. His choice of format are 5x8 and 12x20. He was fastidious and not happy with the ULF gears on the market then. Too heavy for his mountain climbing. So he made his first camera DIY style for his own use, then his friends asked him to make cameras for them. Mostly ULF camera and he named his cameras after a little French town which gave him some fond memory. Light weight and rigid with fine craftmanship, Chamonix cameras are cameras designed for photographers by photographer and they usually don't stay very long at the factory. Their fame spread quickly among Chinese photographers through internet and about two years ago people demanded a 45 camera from Chamonix. Most of these demand were from first time LF users in China and they wanted it at a very low price. Hass worked at it for a few months and the Chamonix 45N-1 was born. The factory has a very thin margin on this camera. A few dozens were made and were grabbed within some 40 hours. The last few of the first batch were sold outside China at the same introductory price last April. They could priced it a little higher and they didn't, even the material and labor costs have been increasing. The prices of all their other sizes have remained the same. But because of the "mispricing" of the 45N-1 camera, the other cameras do seem overpriced.

Right now, they couldn't make enough cameras to meet the demand. But they are listening to demand from photographers. It's very difficult to maintain the ultimate quality while lowering the prices, especially given to the rapid inflation in China at this moment. But they are thinking....

BarryS

24-Jan-2008, 13:18

Hugo-- Thanks for the background. I'd agree the 45N-1 is an incredible bargain. The upside for Chamonix is, many of us will be be purchasing some accessories and having experienced the fine quality of the 45N-1--would love to move up to a larger format Chamonix. The issue issue is not the great quality of the Chamonix, but being able to afford a larger model. The 45N-1 is what we call a "gateway drug". :)

buze

24-Jan-2008, 13:22

Sal Santamaura

24-Jan-2008, 13:36

...It's very difficult to maintain the ultimate quality while lowering the prices, especially given to the rapid inflation in China at this moment. But they are thinking....Perhaps raising the 45N-1 price is the most appropriate thing to think about. :)

Jim Galli

24-Jan-2008, 13:36

I hope Chamonix never compromises the lovely quality. Each camera is like a work of art. I'd far rather see them raise the entry level price point and keep the outstanding quality.

Asher Kelman

24-Jan-2008, 13:37

One can obviously save, we all do. Get a used Toyo, Century, Calumet or other fine camera on EBay or from KEH. Different people choose unique paths.

Will Thompson scoops up an 11x14 wooden camera for peanuts and then fits it with new bellows, lens boards from another sale and that makes his day. He has no idea how many cameras he has!

Jack Flesher, OTOH, is systematic in his choice of cameras and lenses by use, most recently the Arca Swiss with Orbix and an Ebony with a totally different sensibility and a must-have asymmetric back. Well, he dumped these for the Chamonix.

Why? Ultimately it's beauty, elegance in workmanship, simple practicality and movements for almost anything. Jack prefers blondes, so his Chamonix is beautiful white Canadian Maple! :)

Now for me, I wanted to escape the limitations of my 4x5 Graphic and Busch Pressman. I wanted a camera that would leap over all existing digital backs and give me superb detail-rich images that one could walk into or people that one could almost touch.

I could have gone for the 4x5 Chamonix, but I consider that I should get the largest film that I could contact print or easily scan. Obviously, one can do this with a 4x5 but I thought, for scanning, having a large piece of film must mean 4x better file, more detail and smaller spots or dust to fill in.

Also, for portraits, I want to enjoy the experience of working with a box of wood that has been made for me. It's a personal thing.

As to the price, I think that anyone who wants such a camera, should consider buying one now as the dollar is challenged. A Chamonix camera can be resold, almost overnight, as there is a waiting list! I wouldn’t sell mine for $3,000 right now. Wait till I switch to a 4x5 and an ULF! But I still have a lot of photographs and mistakes to make!

Asher

davidb

24-Jan-2008, 13:37

I think the price of the 45N-1 should go up.

Why?

Because when I sell it to buy the 5x7, I'll get more money for the 4x5.

:)

davidb

24-Jan-2008, 13:40

and one more thing.

I have the only black Chamonix 45N-1.

As of right now that is.

Asher Kelman

24-Jan-2008, 16:54

and one more thing.

I have the only black Chamonix 45N-1.

As of right now that is.

What lens boards do you use?

Asher

davidb

24-Jan-2008, 16:58

I am using Wista black boards with the little gold badges.

:)

davidb

24-Jan-2008, 17:04

You can see it here. (http://davidbram.blogspot.com/2007/12/chamonix-finally.html)

Asher Kelman

25-Jan-2008, 01:05

Some more pictures showing how the camera opensd up. The front standard lies flat on the machined base, so obviously the lens cannot be stored on the camera. The white spot is a fleck of electrostatically charged Chinese Styrofoam!

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/Chamonix_MG_3398_openingcamera.jpg

The underside is really just a solid hunk of machined metal, I guess aircraft grade aluminum. The are two tripod hole sizes to cover what ever thread you happen to have. This does offer the possibility for using one hole for the tripod and the other to add accessories if one is so inclined. :)

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/CHAMONIX_MG_3386_Machined_BASE.jpg

Asher

Asher Kelman

25-Jan-2008, 01:06

You can see it here. (http://davidbram.blogspot.com/2007/12/chamonix-finally.html)

Beautiful, but what wood is that? Is it painted black/

Asher

audioexcels

25-Jan-2008, 02:31

and one more thing.

I have the only black Chamonix 45N-1.

As of right now that is.

Bragging rights?:):):)

audioexcels

25-Jan-2008, 02:37

I highly doubt it. Goldman Sach is predicting the Chinese yuan : Dollar will reach 6:1 by 2009. That means $2k in 2009 is equivalent to $1667 now.

So the dollar is killing the Chinese dollar but being slaughtered by everything else?

audioexcels

25-Jan-2008, 02:40

Beautiful, but what wood is that? Is it painted black/

Asher

It looks like the same metal as used on the back and other parts of the camera, though I could be wrong.

audioexcels

25-Jan-2008, 02:43

Jack Flesher, OTOH, is systematic in his choice of cameras and lenses by use, most recently the Arca Swiss with Orbix and an Ebony with a totally different sensibility and a must-have asymmetric back. Well, he dumped these for the Chamonix.

Why? Ultimately it's beauty, elegance in workmanship, simple practicality and movements for almost anything. Jack prefers blondes, so his Chamonix is beautiful white Canadian Maple! :)

Asher

So the Chamonix is the equal of the Arca? Also, what do you mean by asymmetric back? I'm not questioning the Chamonix in a bad way, but asking a realistic question...put money aside and pretend the AS and Chamonix cost the same. Which would Jack or anyone choose: The AS w/Micrometrix or the Chamonix?

prado333

25-Jan-2008, 03:13

audioexcels

25-Jan-2008, 04:00

i think a good idea is that someone replace to Mister Phillips making cameras. he have all you need so the idea is continuing his work with his methods in Usa. this will be a serious alternative to Chamonix, because be honest , at equal price what do you prefer a 8x10 chamonix or a phillips 8x10 explorer.

I like 5.9lbs:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/phillips.html

And I like the looks of this sucker more:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/cameras/phillips/

Cost though?:)

Jan Pedersen

25-Jan-2008, 07:45

BarryS

25-Jan-2008, 08:21

The Phillips is a chimera at this point. Production is over for the Compact II's, and the last Explorers have all been spoken for. There is also virtually no secondary market, because people are holding on to the relatively small number of cameras that were made. The Explorer and the Chamonix are (or were) priced about the same at around $2600, but they're very different cameras. The Explorer is meant to be as light as possible at the expense of some significant features--mainly the non-removable horizontal back. The Chamonix is heavier, but still fairly light and is a much fuller featured camera. If you're looking for a Phillips-like design, Chamonix has taken up the torch.

Nick_3536

25-Jan-2008, 09:29

The Explorer is a nice looking camera but 21" of bellows is just not enough on a 8x10 camera at least not for my use. 120mm minimum also creates some problems in the other end. I plan on using my Chamonix as a 5x7 to and can with the Chamonix use a 90mm in a recessed lens board.

Why can't you use a recessed board on the Phillips?

OTOH if I **really** wanted to use the camera for 5x7 with a 90mm a lot of the time I'd want a camera that could go that wide on a flat board. :rolleyes:

Asher Kelman

25-Jan-2008, 11:04

So the Chamonix is the equal of the Arca? ...................... I'm not questioning the Chamonix in a bad way, but asking a realistic question...put money aside and pretend the AS and Chamonix cost the same. Which would Jack or anyone choose: The AS w/Micrometrix or the Chamonix?

Jack would have to explain further, but AFAIK, he made a sweeping reassessment of what he really needed for his landscape work. The two cameras, the Arca Swiss with Orbix and the Ebony 45SU are both top of the line cameras but with very different characters. The one is so precise and brilliantly designed for east of use and maintaining alignment and movements around through the optical axis, perfect for architecture and commercial work while the latter is for someone who admires workmanship in wood with generous but simpler movements. Both unfortunately tie up an inordinate amount of capital, even for many serious enthusiasts.

The Chamonix, however, at it's sub-$700 introductory price is a marvel of beauty in wood, is made by a mountain-climbing photographer for photographers. He designed for /ULF. That philosphy was to be ultralight, true, sturdy, stable, and usable on long treks climbing mountains. It's made to have a simple set up and be handled with gloves in the snow conditions and said to owe some inheritance to the Phillips.

All this experience was then applied that to 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 cameras and Chamonix, after the Alpine town, was born.

Jack fell in love with the camera for all it's attributes and reflated his bank account by selling the AS and Ebony cameras. What had happened was a realization that with all his experience, he could take the pictures he needed with this somewhat simpler camera and have the benefit of its beauty in finish, and practicality for a fraction of what he had already invested in gear.

Some of us tend to fall in love repeatedly. With cameras, unlike with women, one can act on impulse and acquire another with no serious repercussions. Getting rid of one is less painful and there is no alimony. Besides, divorcing a camera in California, one does not lose half of one's estate! :)

So he now has his 4x5 blonde and more money in the bank to boot!

Asher

Asher Kelman

25-Jan-2008, 11:09

So the Chamonix is the equal of the Arca? Also, what do you mean by asymmetric back?.....................
The asymmetry of the 45SU Ebony allows one to bring back in focus the chosen plane of interest in landscape photography, for example, easily by a swing or tilt through an axis that corresponds, for example to the junction between foreground and background which for would be below (or lateral) to the center of the the system. As long as the line of swing or tilt in the front and rear standards correspond, the distance has not changed, then tilt or shift maintains focus in the rear standard along that line, but not elsewhere. A simple asymmetric swing or tilt of the rear standard though that line restores the focus of the intended plane with one or two quick adjustments. Otherwise, with central axis swings or tilts, he process requires repeated iterations. Anyway, that's the idea!

Jack, being totally fluid in his work with LF, knows the many ways of accomplishing the same effects. So his Blonde Chamonix doe not restrict his work and the asymmetric movements can be given up with no real loss. Further explanation is found here (http://www.ebonycamera.com/media/asymmetrical.movements.pdf). The moral is, perhaps, that a well chosen blonde does not have to be a gymnast to satisfy your every need!

Asher :)

Marko

25-Jan-2008, 11:58

I wonder... if Chamonix were a (Western) European or (North) American instead of Chinese brand, would you still criticize its price and question its quality?

Jan Pedersen

25-Jan-2008, 12:15

Why can't you use a recessed board on the Phillips?

OTOH if I **really** wanted to use the camera for 5x7 with a 90mm a lot of the time I'd want a camera that could go that wide on a flat board.

If i were to use a 90mm on the Phillips i would need a 30mm recessed board, how functional would that be?

The Chamonix is first and foremost going to be used for 8x10 and secondary as a 5x7
Still 21" max bellows is not enough and a minimum of 120 is to much.

Another consideration that i have not yet seen on this forum is how likely is it to get spareparts for a Phillips 10 years from now with Dick Phillips retiring?
Chamonix seems to gain new customers and fans by the day, i think there's a good chance that i can get parts for the Chamonix 10 years from now.

tim atherton

25-Jan-2008, 12:15

As to the price, I think that anyone who wants such a camera, should consider buying one now as the dollar is challenged. A Chamonix camera can be resold, almost overnight, as there is a waiting list! I wouldn’t sell mine for $3,000 right now. Wait till I switch to a 4x5 and an ULF! But I still have a lot of photographs and mistakes to make!

Asher

I'd add that a used Phillips 8x10 (either "current" model) can easily sell for between about $3,800 and $4,500

(and you'll probably get some top end photographers looking at/bidding on it...)

davidb

25-Jan-2008, 12:20

I've said this before and I will say it again...

Chamonix is a terrific camera and it is a great deal.

The one possible issue will be repair and service. They will need to set up
something here in the States to keep their US customers happy.

Nick_3536

25-Jan-2008, 12:27

If i were to use a 90mm on the Phillips i would need a 30mm recessed board, how functional would that be?

What kind of board does the Phillips take? A big Sinar type 30mm is easier for me then even a mild Linhof type board.

But then I have a Shen that easily focuses a 90mm with a flat board and the normal bellows. Something like 65mm with the bag bellows. So I don't tend to think of recessed boards very often with the 8x10.

tim atherton

25-Jan-2008, 12:28

All cameras have compromises - it's horses for courses. On the Arca, I looked pretty closely at it when I was getting a new 8x10. One of the issue (I don't recall the other couple) was I think the front rise was fairly limited

Jan Pedersen

25-Jan-2008, 12:33

Nick, The Chamonix takes Sinar boards but my 90mm is mounted on a Technika board cause i also use it on my Shen-Hao 4x5
The solution is a 11mm recessed technika board and a Sinar to Technica board which will be used for other lenses that is shared.

audioexcels

25-Jan-2008, 15:03

The asymmetry of the 45SU Ebony allows one to bring back in focus the chosen plane of interest in landscape photography, for example, easily by a swing or tilt through an axis that corresponds, for example to the junction between foreground and background which for would be below (or lateral) to the center of the the system. As long as the line of swing or tilt in the front and rear standards correspond, the distance has not changed, then tilt or shift maintains focus in the rear standard along that line, but not elsewhere. A simple asymmetric swing or tilt of the rear standard though that line restores the focus of the intended plane with one or two quick adjustments. Otherwise, with central axis swings or tilts, he process requires repeated iterations. Anyway, that's the idea!

Jack, being totally fluid in his work with LF, knows the many ways of accomplishing the same effects. So his Blonde Chamonix doe not restrict his work and the asymmetric movements can be given up with no real loss. Further explanation is found here (http://www.ebonycamera.com/media/asymmetrical.movements.pdf). The moral is, perhaps, that a well chosen blonde does not have to be a gymnast to satisfy your every need!

Asher :)

Thanks for the above and this response Asher. I really appreciate it!

davidb

25-Jan-2008, 15:13

My camera is made of dark walnut. I asked for a black stain.

audioexcels

25-Jan-2008, 15:40

I wonder... if Chamonix were a (Western) European or (North) American instead of Chinese brand, would you still criticize its price and question its quality?

I don't think it matters where the company is from. If their camera is $700 (4X5) and that same quality goes into an 8X10 and sells at the same price as some of the more exotic companies that would coincidentally sell their 4X5's for 2X the $700 price, then no, it doesn't make sense.

Of course there's TONS of people wanting the 4X5's and not this same surge for 8X10's which means more specificity towards the 8X10 and less towards the 4X5 (in other words, it will be 1 8X10 coming out of the factory for every 4X5=a need to have a price differential that exists).

Price and all aside, who really cares...I mean, if one wants to buy an 8X10 camera, there's tons of choices in the 3K mark, especially exotic ones on the used market, and seeing what you get from this camera, there really should be no complaints about price in spite I did question the pricing.

As a further aside, I'm happy being able to own an AS w/micrometrix and use a dovetail based back with fresh bellows to have an 8X10 camera that weighs about 7-8lbs and has freedom of movements up the bum for a whole $2000...Now if this is the price I have to pay for a 4X5 camera and even if I shot 4X5 at all, I would look no further than the Chamonix at $700.

It's really a shame I am not a 4X5 shooter because it would give me the ability to not have to deal with such extreme jumps in pricing by just about every manufacturer just to get to one size greater than 4X5. 4X5 is just too limited to me not just by film size, but by lenses and what I would need for wide angles/center filters...lens wise, it's a very expensive hobby in the end when you want one or two good wides and "need" center filters. On 5X7, for example, you could use the 90XL and likely never need a CF...but to have that same lens on 4X5, you'd need 75mm? or maybe 65mm? and that would require a CF as we're talking about 10-15mm's of IC to work with on the 65mm and 70mm's to work with the 90XL. Likewise, take the whole plate format and you put a 120mm or even 110XL on it...you get about 50mm's of IC to work with vs. a much less IC in the 4X5 equivalent. Then all these lenses that you want to use with a 4X5 reduction back can be single coated with the amount of bellows of the larger format cameras, etc. etc.

There's the weight factor of 4X5 vs. larger formats, so that plays a role:)!

So many things to look into and I'm further off-course than ever, but point in case, I thiink the puzzling thing about the pricing is nothing to do with location because when I bought my Tachihara, of course I knew it was an Asian camera, but it was only for historical data that I was interested in the make and where it was from. I saw the looks and saw the input by people and that was enough. I see the looks and input about this Chamonix. Woud it be a French camera where the name derives from, then I would not see it as being worth anything more if the French manufacturer wanted $700. But I can see how people can/will equate location, brand new, etc. etc. with the cost factor. We know the Tachihara, Wista, Wisner/Zone VI, etc. etc. and now we are getting to know more and more about this "fancy" and "beautiful" Chamonix.

Now lets keep the price down because we know that this is what it costs for the company to make money!!!...ok, ok...so we can use capitalism at its best and watch the camera go to 1K and people will likely still buy it, but at least I will never be one of the 4X5 only camps, so whatever it costs in the end is irrelevent to me;)

Just wish to close this crazy post out by saying that it's nice that all the ugliness that has come from China factories and etc. stuff that has really devastated and put a bad name on China (from a US perspective) is still proving that the world of art, outside of the masses/dumps/slums is producing what they produced back in the great eras of the great paintings. These far off villages are reminiscent of these far off/away scenes made for the great emporers depicting scenes that the emporors enjoyed being at (on holiday) or to dream of, etc. Chinese painting is amongst the most beautiful art ever produced and from these mountains we have the Chamonix;)

Ok...so I do wish I could have a Chamonix for 2K, but I'll just have to live with an AS for the same price:)...unless...

Cheers all and once again, gorgeous 8X10 camera!!!

Jack Flesher

25-Jan-2008, 17:09

So the Chamonix is the equal of the Arca? SNIP put money aside and pretend the AS and Chamonix cost the same. Which would Jack or anyone choose: The AS w/Micrometrix or the Chamonix?

Jack will respond ;)

First off, I will go solidly on record that the Chamonix is NOT the "equal" of the A/S with Orbix, nor is it really the "equal" of the Ebony 45 SU. As I wrote in the original thread on these cameras, the decision on view cameras is always a set of trade-offs, IOW what are you willing to give up to save money and/or weight?

A Sinar P2 has just about every convenience and movement you could want in a view camera, but it fills up a trunk sized case and weighs in at about 10 pounds all set up and ready to go. The A/S has "most" of those movements and "most" of the same flexibility while saving about 2-1/2 pounds. The Ebony has a few less conveniences and maybe saves another 3/4 pound. By contrast, the Cham has fewer features still, but frees up another 2-3/4 pounds. At the end of the day, the Cham has all the movements I regularly need for MY photography, and so I was willing to give up on some of the other conveniences to save weight and gain portability.

But to be clear, that was because it worked for ME, and I'm not suggesting it is the right choice for everybody else...

PS: I chose blonde originally because that was all Hugo had available. At the end of the day, it turns out it is 2 ounces lighter in weight than the Walnut, and I like the way it looks ;)

Cheers,

davidb

25-Jan-2008, 17:25

Like Jack, the cham works for me. I am a simple landscape and portrait guy who does not use or need lots of movement.

I wanted a simple camera with decent movements and light weight. The Chamonix fills my needs.

If I was doing serious architecture or complex interiors, I am not sure how well this camera will do, only because I have no experience doing it.

I would be willing to let someone like Kirk Gittings test the camera to see how it would do.

J_Tardiff

25-Jan-2008, 18:29

I think the price of the 45N-1 should go up.

Why?

Because when I sell it to buy the 5x7, I'll get more money for the 4x5.

:)

Ahhh-- yes, my wish is for a middle-ranged price for a 5x7 so that I could keep them both.

I am holding off buying any 5x7 for now, hope springs eternal.

JT

davidb

25-Jan-2008, 18:30

I agree JT. I wish I could afford the 5x7.

If it was $1800, I'd buy it.

audioexcels

25-Jan-2008, 18:32

I wish you guys had a $700 Whole plate Chamonix:)!!!

I wish I shot 4X5 instead of larger film!!!

I wish...I wish...can I complain anymore?:)

Well, all things aside, the Blondes and Walnuts are equally hot in Croatia/Slovenia/Poland/Ukraine/etc.:):D

J_Tardiff

25-Jan-2008, 20:13

If it was $1800, I'd buy it.

Yup-- I could swing that, and would.

JT

Will Thompson

26-Jan-2008, 01:33

I wish I had the photos of the 4x5 lenses you had for sale that you promised me then ignored all contact???

I wish you guys had a $700 Whole plate Chamonix:)!!!

I wish I shot 4X5 instead of larger film!!!

I wish...I wish...can I complain anymore?:)

Well, all things aside, the Blondes and Walnuts are equally hot in Croatia/Slovenia/Poland/Ukraine/etc.:):D

audioexcels

26-Jan-2008, 07:27

I wish I had the photos of the 4x5 lenses you had for sale that you promised me then ignored all contact???

Sorry I've been so poor at getting them sent over to you. I will get them both out this weekend and no later. I will send photos of each lens and both together.

Songyun

26-Jan-2008, 23:00

So the dollar is killing the Chinese dollar but being slaughtered by everything else?
:confused: you do the math, Chinese Yuan : Dollar is 7.2*: 1 now , predicted to reach 6:1

Songyun

26-Jan-2008, 23:10

Asher Kelman

27-Jan-2008, 11:06

Asher, can you measure the distance between the two tripod mounting hole, and the length of the underside?

For sure, Songyun, but after a short delay as I'm briefly out to for other photography.

What are your ideas/needs for those two holes? Are you wondering whether or not there might be enough room clear of the tripod head to use the second hole?

Asher

Songyun

27-Jan-2008, 11:28

For sure, Songyun, but after a short delay as I'm briefly out to for other photography.

What are your ideas/needs for those two holes? Are you wondering whether or not there might be enough room clear of the tripod head to use the second hole?

Asher
No, I am looking for a long arca type plate. Try to determine between 4", 6" and 8".

Asher Kelman

28-Jan-2008, 19:28

No, I am looking for a long arca type plate. Try to determine between 4", 6" and 8".
Songyun,

Can it wait till Monday?

Asher

Songyun

28-Jan-2008, 19:39

Songyun,

Can it wait till Monday?

Asher
no problem.

PBrooks

28-Jan-2008, 22:42

I wonder... if Chamonix were a (Western) European or (North) American instead of Chinese brand, would you still criticize its price and question its quality?

I think this is a good point.
First off beauty Asher!
If you remember a year and a half ago or maybe two years, in USA, to buy a ULF new what would you have to pay? 12k, higher I believe this is when Cahnam had the intro pricing to his 2024 at 20k. Then Mr. Ritter announced he was coming out with ULF and then we learned about Chamonix. With Chamonix quality and the fact that they make their own filmholders, did it for me. Now, I'm not going to tell you I wasn't nervous sending 5k, but when the camera arrived and set it up inspected every square mm of it I did what anyone of you would do. I told the world!!!!!!! I do wish now that I would have gotten in on the 4x5, but i chose to buy two boxes of film instead. :) , maybe I'll catch the next batch.
PBrooks

PS. Does anyone other than Chamonix use carbon fiber darkslides?

Songyun

8-Feb-2008, 18:35

Asher, did you measure it?

Asher Kelman

13-Feb-2008, 12:10

No, I am looking for a long arca type plate. Try to determine between 4", 6" and 8".
Hi Songyun,

At long last your measurement! The distance between the center of the two standard tripod holes is exactly 80 mm. I hope this is helpful. The smaller, 5mm one is to the front of the 9 mm hole.

Asher

Songyun

13-Feb-2008, 22:35

Hi Songyun,

At long last your measurement! The distance between the center of the two standard tripod holes is exactly 80 mm. I hope this is helpful. The smaller, 5mm one is to the front of the 9 mm hole.

Asher

Asher, Thanks for the measurement. You must have been busy shooting photos.

Andrea Gazzoni

21-Feb-2008, 00:59

Asher Kelman

21-Feb-2008, 01:08

Seems a great camera... anyone can tell if it's possible to use the sinar auto-aperture shutter with it?
thanks
andre

p.s. Asher, could you provide a picture of how the bellows is attached to the front standard? thank you so much

Hi André,

I'll make a note to do that. What does the auto-shutter look like? What shutter speeds are you thinking of?

Asher

Andrea Gazzoni

21-Feb-2008, 01:14

Asher thank you,
you can see how the sinar shutter is mounted here: http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/tech/sinarshutter.jpg

it sits between the bellows and the front standard

speeds allowed are from 8 sec. to 1/60 sec. plus B

andrea

Andrea Gazzoni

26-Feb-2008, 00:28

any advice on using a Sinar shutter on a Chamonix 8x10 is really appreciated
thank you!

Asher Kelman

26-Feb-2008, 01:23

any advice on using a Sinar shutter on a Chamonix 8x10 is really appreciated
thank you!

I've checked the Chamonix. The bellows comes off the front standard in 1 second. Just one sliding retainer to open! The end of the bellows is very well formed and should easily be fitted into an adapter or perhoas is the same size. If you have the exact measurements of a Sinar Shutter we could get a better idea.

I can easily design an adapter for the base to hold the shutter perfectly orthogonal and stable. However, do you happen to know what are the differences in Sinar shutters and what adaption and allowance have to be made and what are the limitations. I see that one limit is is the widest aperture of f4.0.

Asher

Andrea Gazzoni

26-Feb-2008, 16:26

I've checked the Chamonix. The bellows comes off the front standard in 1 second. Just one sliding retainer to open! The end of the bellows is very well formed and should easily be fitted into an adapter or perhoas is the same size. If you have the exact measurements of a Sinar Shutter we could get a better idea.

Asher, the measures of the shutter (and the way it connects to the standard) are exactly the same as the sinar lensboard

...However, do you happen to know what are the differences in Sinar shutters and what adaption and allowance have to be made and what are the limitations. I see that one limit is is the widest aperture of f4.0.

mine is the f5.6 model, please feel free to ask me any other detail, I can post close ups of it.
thank you again
andre

Asher Kelman

26-Feb-2008, 20:45

Asher, the measures of the shutter (and the way it connects to the standard) are exactly the same as the sinar lensboard

mine is the f5.6 model, please feel free to ask me any other detail, I can post close ups of it.
thank you again
andre
Bardamu, so what shutter is appropriate and why? Do you have a Sinar shutter yet?

I'd love to try one for you!

Asher

Andrea Gazzoni

27-Feb-2008, 00:05

Yes I do have the one with 5.6 widest aperture, like this

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9413/8d961yk8.th.jpg

pic shows the side that goes into the back of the front standard, just like the sinar lensboard it is a square of approximately 139x139mm and it has an inner relief of appr. 127x127mm (I guess this is the light trap).

basically if you can mount a sinar lensboard into the back of the front standard of your Cham, it will be possible to mount the sinar shutter also. you can easily try this.
the other side of the shutter is made to accept the end of the bellows.
can you provide pictures of the back of the front standard with bellows detached and a measure of the end of the bellows?
thank you

Asher Kelman

27-Feb-2008, 00:27

Asher Kelman

17-Mar-2008, 20:00

audioexcels

17-Mar-2008, 20:21

Mike,

The weight of each of my Chamonix Canadian White Maple 8x10 film holders is 1lb 2.75 oz. This is slightly more than my one other 8x10 holder which is 1lb 1/8 oz.

The film holders are beautifully made and the insert appears to be Carbon Fiber.

Asher

Asher,

Have you ever had AWB/S&S/etc. holders and can say how these are by comparison? I'm curious how these more "exotic" holders are by comparison to a regular Fidelity and why one would pay more to have them over the Fidelity (aesthetics aside)?

Thanks Asher and this is one smoking camera. I have some bellows on the way and will be having a custom built cam for my Arca with the bellows and a Lotus like Cherry wood rear standard. Chamonix, Hugo, and everyone working this operation have brought us class act people and products. Cannot say enough!

Cheers!

Asher Kelman

17-Mar-2008, 20:59

Asher,

Have you ever had AWB/S&S/etc. holders and can say how these are by comparison? I'm curious how these more "exotic" holders are by comparison to a regular Fidelity and why one would pay more to have them over the Fidelity (aesthetics aside)?

Thanks Asher and this is one smoking camera. I have some bellows on the way and will be having a custom built cam for my Arca with the bellows and a Lotus like Cherry wood rear standard. Chamonix, Hugo, and everyone working this operation have brought us class act people and products. Cannot say enough!

I love the idea of your transgender Arca-Ritter?-Cham-cam! could we have the actual blood lines? How did this project evolve?

Re: Chamonix 8x10 filmholders: I can only compare it with my many 10-30 year old 4x5 film holders, Graphlex, Graphlex-Riteway, Lisco. The new Chamonix 8x10 carbon fiber mask, as expected slides in and out much more smoothly. There is less loose space. I don't know that one would get film flatter than in the older holders, but it could well be so. Nuances in fit might be more critical with larger film. The design of the old film holders is so near perfect, that unless one had a vacuum back, I doubt one could show a difference with 4x5. With the larger film, the tigtness of how the film is held might decrease any curve or bowing. The old 8x10 wooden film holder slides into the 8x10 Chamonix back perfectly. Is there any difference? I have no film to waste testing that! Certainly, the new holders are handsome. If I had enough good 8x10 holders then this purchase can be held off. New ones probably are not necessary. If I was going to buy new holders, getting these is a treat!

That's the best I can offer at the moment!

Asher

BTW, what lenses do you have for 8x10 especially in the 120 top 180mm range? Also how many film holders would you take on a shoot? My plan is just 5, just 10 shots! What do you think?