Chamonix vs other <$1000 4X5 Field Cameras?

[Skorzen]

I know people have asked a million questions about what the best field camera out there is. However it seems that The Chamonix has created a bit of a stir and I am wondering if people who have used that as well as some of the other less expensive field cameras can give me their thoughts. I have used a graphic for a while and more recently a B&J 4X5 View camera (not the press camera). I have found the B&J's added movements to be very helpful so I am looking to combine (some) of that ability with the size and weight of the graphics and I think a "real" field camera is probably the best way to do that. The Shen Hao seems like it would fit my needs, but some people either love or hate these from what I read so I am just trying to put it all together and see how the Chamonix fits into the 4X5 field camera market.

[davidb]

First, can you wait 6 months for a Chamonix? If not, then the camera is not for you. If so, read on.

In the last 8 months, I have owned a Zone VI, a Zone VI ultra light, a Canham DLC45, a Toyo 45AX, and now the Chamonix 45N-1.

I've sold everything else except the Chamonix and the Toyo 45AX.

The Chamonix is a well built camera with a ton of movements and lots of bellows. There are a few things to get used to, like focusing and changing lenses, but once you do the camera is a joy to use. It weighs about 3.5 pounds compared to 6 pound Toyo.

Now I don't use lots of movements as I do mostly landscape and portraits with the camera and I have two lenses, a 110mm and a 210mm. This means I have plenty of movements available and still have lots of bellows.

So far, I have no "real" complaints about the camera, just a few minor things to wish for. I wish there was a visible scale on the base where the front element screws down. I wish there was a folding focusing hood for the camera like the one Toyo makes for their cameras. That would be a huge plus for me. Also, I wish there was an accessory shoe on the top of the rear standard, like the one the Toyo has. There are times I would like to use a small flash and right now there is no place to put it (I won't put it on the front standard).

All in all, the Chamonix is hard to beat. $699 plus shipping is a pretty good deal.

[Kirk Gittings]

David, You have owned almost as many VC's in the last 6 months than I have in 30 years!

[Nick_3536]

There are a few things to get used to, like focusing and changing lenses, but once you do the camera is a joy to use.

David could you expand on this? What's so different about focusing and changing lenses?

[eddie]

the focusing knob is a the back of the camera in the middle. it is a worm gear. i too find myself always reaching to the front standard to focus. (this is where most of my of cameras focus from)

as for changing lenses i do not know. i think it is a very easy and straight forward design. i think that the lens boards are a bit too large EEERRRR....maybe the front standard hole is a but too small :) :) for my boards. my friend also experiences the same thing. i will haver to take a file to my boards.

other than that it is a great camera. i am not the one to ask for a comparison as i do not own any other "modern" view camera. i own a korona view 4x5 and a B&J 8x10. i have owned a kodak 2D 8x10, and a calumet C1 8x10, as well as some press cameras.

the difference for me is i have almost full movements compared to my korona 4x5. i get less bellows draw and that is kind of a bummer. i get 20 inches + with my korona! i have not used a B&J 4x5 but if it is anything like the 8x10 i would say it is similar to the chamonix but heavier bulkier, and WAY less pretty. OH! i do enjoy the geared movements on the other cameras! that is the one down side to the chamonix. when you loosen the knobs to adjust ,say rise, then you also have the potential to disturb the tilt as this knob controls both. small thing, i am able to "keep it all together" but others may not share this opinion.

eddie

[Ted Harris]

David, I don't mean to beat up on you but to follow on with what Kirk said how could you have used any of them extensively enough in that period to become familiar enough with any single one ..... or, was it instant hate? Nothing wrong if it was instant hate or a particular camera just didn't fit your style but you can't really condemn any of those you discarded so quickly as you never got to know them.

As for the Chamonix, I'm waiting for one to arrive so I can test it thoroughly. I have had the pleasure of using one briefly in my studio thanks to Gary Samson who is shooting with it in Ghana right now. I have no problem with controls as I have used Phillips cameras in the past. In its price and weight range it is perhaps the most versatile camera I have used. It sets up reasonably fast. It was rigid enough with the bellows somewhat extended. The fit and finish is lovely. It'll take a lot more use and a lot of sheets of film through it before I am ready to say much more but suffice to ay the one short look was all I needed to impress me enough to give a longer look.

I'll also add that I am equally interested in seeing Richard Ritter's 4x5 that will be on the same platform as his 5x7. That should be available at about the same time the next batch of Chamonix 4x5's arrives.

Finally, to get back to the OP's question, there really is no best field camera; there is only the camera that is best for your needs, style of shooting and budget.

[J_Tardiff]

I'm a serious newbie but I did spend the past year learning LF on a 4x5 Shen Hao. I am one of those that did not find it particularly intuitive -- in fact, I found it a bit frustrating and was, in part, convinced that it was either my ineptitude or inexperience that led to my dissatisfaction.

I think luckily in my case, I finally came to the conclusion that it wasn't necessarily me or the camera, but that the two of us together were not well-suited and I swapped it for one of the new Chamonix 4x5s (thank heavens for an understanding husband).

My experience with the Chamonix has been completely different -- I really enjoy working with it on all levels. So go figure.

I'm still in the market for a 5x7 field, I only wish that the Chamonix 5x7/5x8 wasn't so expensive or I would give serious thought to buying another.

So take your shot -- I think finding the right camera is a bit more touchy-feely than one might think. Sure surprised me. Luckily if you treat your gear well (and buy decent stuff to begin with) your mistakes won't be too costly.

Good luck,

JT

[robert]

How does the Chamonix acrylic/plastic ground glass compare to a regular GG?...Any light flare/hot spots? Does it scratch easy? I know on their larger cameras they use this type of GG so I assume it is the same on the smaller formats.

[Skorzen]

Thanks for the input and by all means continue to discuss the topic but I thought I would update you all that I am leaning towards a used Shen Hao. One of the main reasons I am looking for something is allowing better movement with a 90 and with the available bag bellows it looks like that would give me the most movements. I can see how I get along with it and if I don't probably get my money back and try something else. Unfortunately I really can't try before I buy as there isn't really anywhere I know of near where I am that carries any large format gear in a meaningful way.

[BarryS]

How does the Chamonix acrylic/plastic ground glass compare to a regular GG?...Any light flare/hot spots? Does it scratch easy? I know on their larger cameras they use this type of GG so I assume it is the same on the smaller formats.

The Chamonix 45N-1 uses conventional ground glass with a fresnel lens. I'm not sure where they draw the line for switching to acrylic, but all the 4x5's have glass.

[thetooth]

Thanks for the input and by all means continue to discuss the topic but I thought I would update you all that I am leaning towards a used Shen Hao. One of the main reasons I am looking for something is allowing better movement with a 90 and with the available bag bellows it looks like that would give me the most movements. I can see how I get along with it and if I don't probably get my money back and try something else. Unfortunately I really can't try before I buy as there isn't really anywhere I know of near where I am that carries any large format gear in a meaningful way.

skorzen . i was in the same boat as you a week ago . i ended up with a very nice used wisner 4x5 technical for $750.00 . i was a few days away from buying a shen hao though , i spoke to the guy at badger graphics and a fellow at midwest camera a few times about it . i wish you luck in what ever camera you end up with .

[Daniel_Buck]

I've only used one other folding 4x5, a Zone VI Wista. One thing that the Wista has over the Chamonix, is that it's possibly a bit easier to use. When you open the Wista camera, everything is plumb and ready to go, with the exception of the front standard's rise (which is probably the case for many folding cameras?).

With the Chamonix, after you fold out the back you have to screw in the front standard, which means you also have to level out it's left-right swing and left-right shift, since there are no 'stop' for this, other than the markings on the base (which are dim, and could probably be painted brighter or engraved!). The back standard is also rumored to not be 100&#37; parallel to the front standard when you unfold it all the way. If infact it is NOT parallel, it's not off by much as I haven't noticed it being off. I've only heard that it might not be parallel, not actually observed it.

I don't mind screwing in the front standard and getting the swing and shift leveled out, since I'm usually taking my time when I'm shooting anyway. It only takes but not 1/2 a minute, but for some this may be 1/2 a minute of annoyance each time they unfold their camera.

In short, if you want a camera that is fast to setup, I would not suggest the Chamonix. Otherwise, it's a wonderful camera to use :)

I suppose the only question about it now, is how does it hold up to years of use? I think that's the only thing left to really test this camera. So far, I've had no problems with mine, been out quite a few times in the woods and mountains, even got sand everywhere once on the beach with high winds. Nothing is gritty yet (though I did clean it out with a blow bulb)

[Rafael Garcia]

One of the main reasons I am looking for something is allowing better movement with a 90 .

Mine will be here in June, but from all I've read, the Chamonix can focus a 65mm lens using a flat lens board and the bellows is still flexible enough for movements. A 90 should pose no problem, if that is correct.

[Asher Kelman]

Mine will be here in June, but from all I've read, the Chamonix can focus a 65mm lens using a flat lens board and the bellows is still flexible enough for movements. A 90 should pose no problem, if that is correct.
I just know that Jack Flesher who thinks Ebony cameras are the greatest and was devoted to his Arc Swiss, now loves his Blonde (Canadian Maple) 4x5 Chamonix and now that's what he uses on his field trips. That to me is a good recommendation!

I chose a Chamonix after deciding to move up from a Crown Graphic and Busch Pressman. I "tested out" the 7"x17" Chamonix with Hug Zhang and was so impressed with how well made and rigid it was yet very light.

So I will be the father of an 8x10 Chamonix in several days! I'm getting Scott Whitford's Ries tripod and already have a Polaroid processor so I'm ready to go. Just need to get B&W & color processing set up again.

Most here choose a wooden camera as part of the experience of slowing life down and getting intimate and personal with the process of making a picture. So, IMHO, the camera should be something you enjoy using.

I know I could go on for ever wondering about Wistas and envying Ebonies, but that's passed. I'm now charmed by Chamonix!

Asher

[Songyun]

So I will be the father of an 8x10 Chamonix in several days! I'm getting Scott Whitford's Ries tripod and already have a Polaroid processor so I'm ready to go. Just need to get B&W & color processing set up again.


Asher

serveral days?
I thought current batch will be done by the end of March.

[walter23]

Shen hao shen hao shen hao!

The movements are very nice.

There are a couple of minor DIY repairs that are a good idea to fix a couple of minor bugs in the design. 1> it needs a bit of flocking just inside the rear frame to absorb reflections of out-of-frame bright objects, I've posted about this in "lenses and accessories", and 2> the rear swing lock mechanism has to be tensioned with an additional washer or by moving the locking knob to a secondary hole (already drilled & threaded presumably in recognition of this problem).

[Asher Kelman]

serveral days?
I thought current batch will be done by the end of March.
That depends when you ordered!

Yours will be here soon enough!

Asher

[Dave Moeller]

I would caution that, if you buy a Shen-hao, you should check first to see if these corrections are necessary. I've been using mine for a few years now, and neither of these items were a problem on my camera.

I've been able to use a 90 on a flat lens board with sufficient front rise for most of my needs. My bag bellows haven't gotten as much use as I expected that they would, although I do opt for the bag bellows over a recessed lens board when I need extensive front rise with the 90.

Good luck with whatever camera you choose.


Shen hao shen hao shen hao!

The movements are very nice.

There are a couple of minor DIY repairs that are a good idea to fix a couple of minor bugs in the design. 1> it needs a bit of flocking just inside the rear frame to absorb reflections of out-of-frame bright objects, I've posted about this in "lenses and accessories", and 2> the rear swing lock mechanism has to be tensioned with an additional washer or by moving the locking knob to a secondary hole (already drilled & threaded presumably in recognition of this problem).

[Michael Rosenberg]

The Chamonix will work with a 47XL on a flat board with almost no movement. With the 58XL you have some movement - more than on the Linhof. Using the Nikkor 90, the Chamonix has more than adequate movements for any of my needs. I used it for two weeks on the Oregon coast at the beginning of this month, and it was a pleasure to use. I had no problems.

Mike

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Have you looked at a Tachihara?

I used one for many many years and never had a problem with it. It is lightweight, very well made and simple to use. The controls are straightforward and folding/unfolding is very easy.

In addition, it will take lenses from 75mm to 300mm and has a nice amount of movements. More than most landscape photographers need.

I still carry it along with my Zone VI which is also a very fine camera and can take a 450mm lens which is why I wanted it.

Chances are your first camera will not be your last. The best advice I can give is to get a camera that is good quality and affordable. Then use and use and use it until it seems natural to you. There are many wonderful used cameras that are inexpensive. Currently I am using a 5X7 Conely that was made in 1910, it has never had any work done on it and is a joy ot use. It cost me $175 and included a triple convertable lens.

The point being, price doesn't always mean one is better than another. What matters is how you use the camera and if it fits your way of working. I have seen horrible images made with the most expensive cameras and wonderful images made from the cheapest.

[Brian Ellis]

I've owned a Tachihara, a Shen-Hao, and now a Chamonix. The Chamonix weighs about what the Tachihara weighs (2 lbs lighter than the Shen Hao), has a longer bellows extension than either camera (about 15" vs 13" for the Tachihara and 12" for the Shen Hao unless you fiddle around with base and axis tilt on the Shen Hao to extend the bellows beyond the camera bed, which gains another 2" but which is a PITA to do and probably isn't very sturdy with a larger lens), has front axis tilt (vs base tilt only for the Tachihara and base + axis tilt for the Shen Hao but I didn't find it very easy to switch to axis tilt on the Shen Hao), has tripod sockets for both 1/4" and 3/8" tripod screw sizes (vs 1/4" only on the Tachihara and I don't remember on the Shen Hao), has a viewing screen that seems about the same as the Tachihara and Shen Hao (i.e. not as good IMHO as a Maxwell but pretty good), has bubbles for leveling and zeroing the front and back forward and backward and side-to-side (the Tachihara has no bubble levels, I don't remember the Shen Hao), comes in a very nice carrying cloth and with a ground glass protector (the Tachihara and Shen Hao have neither), and FWIW is IMHO a nicer looking camera.

My only complaints about the Chamonix after minimal usage are that there's no way to "stop" the back when raising it to make sure it's perpendicular to the camera bed other than by looking at the back bubble level as you place the camera back into position (or if there is I haven't found it). It also has kind of a "floppy" feel to it until it's set up and everything is locked down. By that I mean that unlike most wood field cameras the front standard isn't attached to the camera bed with a strut and knob. So when you first open the camera it's free to move up, down, and all around until you put the front standard in one of the holes in the bed. I also find the position of the control for locking and unlocking front tilt a little awkward. I haven't had any trouble adjusting to the position of the focusing knob.

My complaints are minor compared to what for me are the advantages of the Chamonix (mainly the longer bellows and front axis tilt) and at this point I prefer the Chamonix to either the Tachihara or the Shen Hao though it does cost about $100 more with shipping from China. I wouldn't take the "six month wait" as gospel without checking with Hugo. I received mine about two weeks after ordering it.

[Gordon Moat]

Almost three years with my Shen-Hao HZX45A-II. The only changes I made were to add a Satin Snow ground glass, and I made a wooden ground glass protector. I did move the rear locking lever to the other threaded hole, since I found it easier to pull to lock than push to lock that down. I use the rear movements quite often, so I don't know that I would find other similarly priced cameras as useful. I bought my Shen-Hao through Badger Graphic Sales (http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=22) in Wisconsin.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[Joseph O'Neil]

Chances are your first camera will not be your last.

-snip-

Now isn't that the truth. In the past 12 years I've wandered through 6 different 4x5s, some of which I still have and use. However, if I popped back in tie 12 years ago and told myself i would go through that many cameras, no way I would believe it.

I suspect your choice will be highly influenced by what is actually available to you when you are ready to buy. I ended up buying a rosewood Tachihara for an $100 from Badger because that's all they had in stock at that time, but I've never looked back.

I've never used the Chamonix myself, but the one thing I can tell you is that the price of used wood field cameras in good shape, especailly on flea-bay, can be rather high, so there's an advantage to buying new, even if there is a wait.
good luck
joe

[Alan Davenport]

I know I'm a heretic, but I still subscribe to the philosophy that a camera -- any camera -- is simply a light-tight box, with a lens at one end and film at the other end.

If I were buying a new field camera today, I'd seriously consider the Chamonix, along with the Shen Hao, Tachihara, Walker and a few others. It really comes down to which camera you connect with...

[BarryS]

...
My only complaints about the Chamonix after minimal usage are that there's no way to "stop" the back when raising it to make sure it's perpendicular to the camera bed other than by looking at the back bubble level as you place the camera back into position (or if there is I haven't found it).

Brian-- If you slide out the two tabs on the bottom of the rear standard the back will stop exactly perpendicular to the bed. You're not the only one who missed that. :)

[Asher Kelman]

Brian-- If you slide out the two tabs on the bottom of the rear standard the back will stop exactly perpendicular to the bed. You're not the only one who missed that. :)
Barry,

Could you post a photo showing the tabs. It might allay a lot of fears! There have been a number of reports of difficulty here and your report is most helpful!

Asher

[tOny]

I have a chamonix 4X5 and for the first time using it was not aware of the Tabs/Sliders on the back. I can confirm what Barry S has said they are there and work perfect. This is an amazing camera at this price point.

[Harley Goldman]

The tabs are little slide outs at the bottom of the rear standard. They work very well to square it up when setting up the camera. Slide them back in if you want to to some rear tilt.

I took an awl and grooved the lines on the bottom plates, then painted them in with white paint. It makes it a lot easier to square up the camera in low light (which is what I shoot in most of the time).

For the $$, the Cham is a very impressive camera. It is amazingly rigid. It is a little fiddly when setting up or when you have to adjust the front or rear when changing lenses. It slows me down, but not hideously.

I used the 80mm SS with it with no problems at all. I have not yet tried my 58mm.

[Rafael Garcia]

I assume it is fine to refer to other websites. The article at

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178

has good descriptions of the Chamonix controls, with photos. It includes photos of the tabs.

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks Barry et al, I wondered why the grooved lines were on those "tabs," now I see why they're there. This is really an ingeniously-designed camera once you learn how to use everything.

[D. Bryant]

I know people have asked a million questions about what the best field camera out there is. However it seems that The Chamonix has created a bit of a stir and I am wondering if people who have used that as well as some of the other less expensive field cameras can give me their thoughts. I have used a graphic for a while and more recently a B&J 4X5 View camera (not the press camera). I have found the B&J's added movements to be very helpful so I am looking to combine (some) of that ability with the size and weight of the graphics and I think a "real" field camera is probably the best way to do that. The Shen Hao seems like it would fit my needs, but some people either love or hate these from what I read so I am just trying to put it all together and see how the Chamonix fits into the 4X5 field camera market.
After looking at one yesterday, I decided I would be a fool not to purchase this camera. It fits my needs and it is very easy to use and set up.

The owner of the camera, Don Hutton, showd me a neat little trick, a single revolution of the focusing knob is equal to a 12mm shift of the front standard. Pretty neat!

The construction and finish of the camera is very precise. I observed no minor flaws to the fit or finish as I have observed with some other view cameras in this price range.

I think over the next year or two will probably see a lot of these cameras being used. For the price I've never seen another view camera like it.

Don Bryant