Whole Plate Camera Splurge??

[Rob_5419]

No Sanderson half and whole plate cameras for months and then suddenly, a rash just after Christmas.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230209988742&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013

Some lucky person just got lucky! I had one like this. Regretting letting it go now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170183482903&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007

Just look at those rear movements - a splitting image of a Gandolfi! Not related to me btw...

[Leonard Robertson]

I saw the Oregon camera this morning and was very tempted to bid, but I knew someone would want it more than I did. I'm happy with the one Sanderson I have. It seems to be a 5X7 with a 15xxx serial number. Any idea of date of manufacture from that number? Someone told me they thought it was early 1900s, but I'd like to get a better idea on the date. It is missing a couple of knobs and screws, but isn't in horrible condition. I need to study the wonderful plate-camera site you gave the link to. I want to determine what film or plate holders will fit my camera, and try to locate a couple. I may have questions on holders for you after I've read a bit more.

Thanks for posting these links. It brightened up a snowy winter evening for me.

Len Robertson

[Rob_5419]

Leonard -

151xxx is definitely after 1900 - possibly towards the latter end towards 1910. The half-plate (5"x7" was actually half-plate then) and quarter plate Sandersons were made in the hundred-thousands, whereas the whole plates were rarer, being numbered in the hundreds. Production of the half-plates were outstripped by the quarter plate Sandersons - some of these have the most amazing build quality, particularly the tropical handstand types. The mahogany wood seasons really really well too.

One nice thing about the Oregon one is its condition. The price isn't bad at all, however with no tripod plate and tripod legs, and even worse - no bookform plate holders, it would take a lot of effort to pull together a working camera from this. Collectors don't usually bother with such fine detail. The lens is a bit iffy and could do with replacement though. And the front shift is limited by the earlier lens panel design compared to the later Sanderson.

I think I underestimated the Sanderson at the time. I was sent this link after I got rid
of mine, thinking it had no bed drop.

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/1_early/1_early_photography_-_equipment_1890s_-_camera_sanderson_universal_swing_front.htm#start

You could probably get a Schneider Angulon 110mm XL lens onto that.

Do you know where to get replacement brass screws and parts for your Sanderson?

If you have 1 plate holder it should be easy to trace out its patterns and recognise which type of plate holder you need. Some of the other whole plate camera users on this forum might be able to help you with that. I know my Gandolfi half-plate holders are incompatible with the Sanderson half-plate.

Enjoy the snow! We've got a bizarre mix of rain and miserable weather here in England.

[Pete Watkins]

Hi Rob,
I always thought that 6 1/2 by 4 3/4 was half plate in the U.K. I'm using half plate as
5x7 holders are about as plentiful as unicorn crap.
Pete.

[Rob_5419]

Hi Pete,

You're right - it is.

However the Sanderson was never manufactured in 5x7" format - it was released in whole plate, half plate (6 1/2 x 4 3/4) and quarter plate formats. It's commonly mistaken for a 5x7" format camera although in practice it matters little, since bookform plate holders were only made in half-plate size and half-plate cameras were cross-compatible to an extent with the 7x5" format...

I do like half-plate format a lot. It's a proper contact postcard format, and the film doesn't bend inside the holders as much as the whole plate and larger formats do.

[Leonard Robertson]

I've wondered if my Sanderson isn't in fact a half-plate size. I measured the image size on the camera back and it is approx. 4 7/8" X 6 7/8", which always seemed a bit large to be half-plate. However, I have no real point of reference. If someone with a half-plate Sanderson could take a measurement and confirm I have a half-plate size, it would make finding holders easier for me.

As to finding replacement knobs, I've always planned to make my own. I can do fairly simple metal lathe work, and making knobs looks like a good practice piece. My Sanderson has straight knurled knobs rather than cross-hatch pattern, so it should be easier to duplicate the pattern. I need to buy or make a knurling tool that takes interchangeable knurls, preferably a scissors type holder. It just occurred to me the threads inside the knobs may not be SAE, but one of the British threads. I have a very few British taps and dies I got to build a Stuart 10V engine kit that may match. I'll have to check.

Finally, does anyone know if Sanderson published catalogs or any sort of printed matter? I've never seen anything on eBay, but I don't search for Sanderson on a regular basis.

Len Robertson

[Ernest Purdum]

Have your cake and eat it too. 1/2-plate DDS are rather bulky, so it is very likely that the camera frame is large enough so that the back could be removed and a 5X7 spring back adapted in its place. Take pictures with the 5X7 back and snap the 1/2 plate back back on for people to admire.

"Sanderson" was the designer, not the maker. British Journal Photographic Almanacs (BJPA's), sometimes found in large libraries and on eBay, for very many years have Sandersons listed amongst the Houghton advertisements. There were, of course, individual brochures, too.

I have never seen any specific reference to Sandersons in the 5X7 size, but I wouldn't be surprised should such exist. They were made in Continental sizes and in the Postcard format. Makers of top-grade British cameras were very accommodating to customers with special requirements.

[big_ben_blue]

... since bookform plate holders were only made in half-plate size and half-plate cameras were cross-compatible to an extent with the 7x5" format...


I dunno, my Thornton's lonely 5x7/13x18 book holder is a fair deal larger than half plate holders.


I've wondered if my Sanderson isn't in fact a half-plate size. I measured the image size on the camera back and it is approx. 4 7/8" X 6 7/8", which always seemed a bit large to be half-plate. However, I have no real point of reference. If someone with a half-plate Sanderson could take a measurement and confirm I have a half-plate size, it would make finding holders easier for me.

TP holders fit the Sandersons, at least they do fit mine (a half plate). My Sanderson's groundglass measures 6 1/2 x 4 3/4. Your's seems to be much closer to 5x7/13x18; in fact your measurements correspond perfectly to the opening of my 13x18 TP holder. Finding these holders is pretty much hopeless.

[Rob_5419]

Ernest seems right - the BJP almanacs have never made reference to a 5"x7" Sanderson - although 5x7" other plate form cameras were made... there are individual adverts for the Sanderson cameras over the 1895-1910 period, although I can't point you to any source that has systematically catalogued these. Sanderson's company was based in South London and outsourced work, in the same way that Voigtlander might make Zeiss Ikon bodies nowadays, however Sanderson's arrangement with Houghton (also south London) was more local. As Ernest suggests - it is possible that you may have one of the few custom made European sizes of Sanderson cameras. The British overseas armed forces stuck with traditional whole/half/quarter plates - was that a bit like nowadays, because of plate/film availability? Who knows.

The 4 7/8" X 6 7/8" may or may not be half-plate: if you check the rear grooves where the ground glass fits, then re-measure the available viewing ground glass, seen from the rear of the glass you'll get a better idea.

It will still be inaccurate, because the design of the plate holders determine the size of the actual negative; once the wooden margins of the plate holders fit into the plate back, that may be fractionally reduced and you'll find that it is back to 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 = half-plate.

The only way to know is to work it out from the half-plate back that actually fits your Sanderson, because the wooden frame margins encroach sometimes on the viewing area of the groundglass. You can see this when you raise the holder up, along with its darkslide, but leave the rest of the holder outer frame in position in the plate back. If you don't have a single plate holder, then you're in trouble, because it's a nightmare, even for the whole plate versions, to work out which notching type you need. That's the reason why a lot of these collector Sandersons sell to collectors - they're a nightmare to piece together, unless you are extremely resourceful. It's also possible to machine a spring loaded DDS type film back on the plate back. I've had quotes for work like this for a larger whole plate camera, and I've decided that I might as well start from scratch, rather than do piecemeal work (which can work very well if you're talented in woodwork or know someone who will help out..)

[Leonard Robertson]

I finally found time to measure the area on my Sanderson back where the ground glass fits (missing on my camera). It measures 5 1/8" X 7 1/8". If anyone has a half-plate Sanderson back, I'd love to know how the size compares. I consider my camera a collectors piece, as I have other usable view cameras. I have thought of making a 5X7 adapter back to be able to shoot with the Sanderson. I have a couple of old spring backs, and I can make an adapter frame, so I won't harm the Sanderson.

Len Robertson

[big_ben_blue]

I finally found time to measure the area on my Sanderson back where the ground glass fits (missing on my camera). It measures 5 1/8" X 7 1/8". If anyone has a half-plate Sanderson back, I'd love to know how the size compares. I consider my camera a collectors piece, as I have other usable view cameras. I have thought of making a 5X7 adapter back to be able to shoot with the Sanderson. I have a couple of old spring backs, and I can make an adapter frame, so I won't harm the Sanderson.

Len Robertson

See my post above (groundglass measures 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 on my half plate Sanderson); your camera back appears to be a 13x18 (5x7) like my Thornton (probably a custom job or very limited run).

Chris

[JaapH]

Hi,
I noticed you are talking about the 'Oregon' Sanderson.

I am the lucky guy that won the bid. And indeed I am happy.

Did recieve the camera yesterday. It is a very nice piece of craftmanship. And its big!

However not completely as nice as I hoped (replaced groundglass, broken leather strap)

the number on the camera is 251. So if that is the serial number, it would be an early one.

I am a collector and have currently three Sanderson's. I used to have 3 more but sold some off some years ago.

So if you have any questions about this camera, just put them to me.

Jaap
(The Netherlands)

[Rob_5419]

Wow. Welcome to the forum!


Nice to see what happens to these beautiful vintage cameras.

Are you planning on using yours? What are you using for plate holders?

I sold mine after giving up not finding perfect fit bookform plate holders after waiting for years. At the minute I'm looking at making my own whole plate camera, but it's starting to look harder and harder with the economy gripping everything.....

251 is indeed early. You can tell by the lens panel face too.

Nice to see these famous whole plates return closer to their origin :rolleyes:

[katie cooke]

I was lucky enough to find a whole plate Houghton Victo, with a TTH Cooke series V lens at a local auction house a couple of years ago, when I was still living in East Anglia. There was a whole sale of photographic kit, ranging from complete trash to some gorgeous old cameras. I'd spent almost the whole day bidding, and losing, to a dealer... who finally took pity on me on the very last camera (he'd already scored a couple of beautiful sandersons) and didn't bid against me. So, I bagged my slightly restored and completely lovely glossy Victo, with three holders, a working TP shutter, and an oak tripod for £160. I've not used it nearly enough, but it's a delight to work with (and remarkably light).

These are a few of the images I've made with it: http://flickr.com/photos/heyoka/tags/houghtonvicto/

[Rob_5419]

Hi Katie,

Ohoy up there in Scotland. Is it cold still? I got back down sarf before the gales and snow started this week ;)

your camera sounds like a complete vintage plate nut's dream. You're really really lucky to get it with the tripod plate and legs. Nothing I have cobbled up together fits and in the end, a central 3/8 hole is not as stable as six oak legs spread out across the tripod base plate.

Unlike Jaaph's, your Houghton doesn't have the front swing movements. Never mind - you use yours to beautiful effect.

Looking forward to you posting more of your beautiful images!

[JaapH]

Well, I am not intending to use mine. I do not have any plateholders yet. In two weeks time there is going to be a big camera fair here in the Netherlands. So I might find some.