Shen hao internal flare - compendium shade or flocking modification?

[walter23]

I've noticed in a few images (actually, unfortunately, more than a few) that the black paint just inside the rear wooden frame of my shen hao is actually a little too glossy, and that I tend to get nasty flare with bright objects (not even necessarily extremely bright light sources like the sun or anything) when the image cast by the lens lands just on the frame and bounces onto the film.

I hadn't been paying much attention to this until a rash of recent negatives where I can see it in sevearl cases, and now I've noticed that's it's actually quite noticable on the ground glass.

I'm thinking about two options. The first is the compendium shade; I consider that to be a huge pain in the ass though, and I'd like to avoid it. The other is obviously repainting the interior with a more flat black finish or flocking it with the kind of stuff you can get from astronomical supply stores and such.

Have any of you done this to your shen hao, and what would you recommend? I'm asking just to try to save spending too much money on different solutions that may or may not work, and like I've said I'm not keen on the hassle of a compendium shade.

[lenser]

Would it be possible to take some steel wool and rough up the finish or use a very matte clear print spray or other laquer to kill the shine? I'm not familiar with the Shen Hao, but if you can remove the bellows like in my Zone VI, I would think this might work.

[walter23]

I can remove the bellows and back, so painting is probably one of the better options, though I'm not very skilled at masking or aiming a spray can ;)

Will resort to it as a last effort though.

[Eric Rose]

you might be able to glue some felt to the offending area as well. Erna has not had this problem with her Shen-Hao even though she has shot in some fairly bright and reflective situations. Are you sure it's not the glare from your forehead LOL.

[Dan Fromm]

Edmund Industrial Optics sells adhesive-backed flocking paper. It stops stray light better than Krylon Utra Flat Black.

[Steve Goldstein]

I'd noticed this too when a just-out-of-scene light caused edge glow visible on the ground glass. I disassembled the back and sprayed the "black" surfaces with Krylon Ultra-Flat Black as Dan mentioned since I had a can the stuff. I protected non-target areas with the easy-to-remove blue masking tape sold for painting. This solved the problem as far as I could see at the time. Flocking paper would be less messy to apply, though, great idea.

[Michel Berard]

I've noticed in a few images (actually, unfortunately, more than a few) that the black paint just inside the rear wooden frame of my shen hao is actually a little too glossy, and that I tend to get nasty flare with bright objects (not even necessarily extremely bright light sources like the sun or anything) when the image cast by the lens lands just on the frame and bounces onto the film.

I hadn't been paying much attention to this until a rash of recent negatives where I can see it in sevearl cases, and now I've noticed that's it's actually quite noticable on the ground glass.

I'm thinking about two options. The first is the compendium shade; I consider that to be a huge pain in the ass though, and I'd like to avoid it. The other is obviously repainting the interior with a more flat black finish or flocking it with the kind of stuff you can get from astronomical supply stores and such.

Have any of you done this to your shen hao, and what would you recommend? I'm asking just to try to save spending too much money on different solutions that may or may not work, and like I've said I'm not keen on the hassle of a compendium shade.

[Turner Reich]

Where is this, can you post a picture of the area, it would help many of us.

[Michel Berard]

I have put some flocking material in the back of my lensboard of my Nagaoka and it is perfect the material is pre glue and very thin and is 97% non reflecting you can order this material at http://www.fpi-protostar.com/

[Alan Davenport]

Forget the spray can! Spray the paint into an old can lid or something, and use an artist's paintbrush or a Q-Tip to paint it onto the camera.

[walter23]

you might be able to glue some felt to the offending area as well. Erna has not had this problem with her Shen-Hao even though she has shot in some fairly bright and reflective situations. Are you sure it's not the glare from your forehead LOL.

Hey, easy there grandpa. My hairline is 100% as it should be! It's just the brain pushing the follicles out as it grows.

[walter23]

I'll post an image of the area for the sake of reference after I have time to go photograph it. Meanwhile here's the only example of the effect that I have scanned at the moment. It's from an odd (eyepiece diopter) lens, but nevermind that. Just look at the flare. It happens with "real" lenses too.

http://ashphotography.ca/zenphoto/albums/victoria08/thetreeandducks.jpg

If you look in the upper right and left corners you can see flare. There's a telltale pattern to this, in that the corner of the wooden frame blocks some of the light and leaves a shadow, so what you see is flare delineated by a perfectly straight line leaving just a couple of millimeters of un-flared area at the edge of the film.

One of those weird idiosyncrasies of the view camera that I've only just learned... but of course it should be obvious - lenses with any kind of excess coverage send light flying all around inside your camera, not just onto the film area :)

[lenser]

Before you blame the inner paint job, that flare looks a bit like it could be light leaks...as though the back might be sprung (if that's possible) or the holder not being properly seated in the back.

The fact that there is an un-fogged area at the very edge makes it look as though the flare causing light is coming in from an edge angle rather than straight in from the lens and from any internal reflections.

Try putting a loaded holder in the camera and taking the dark slide out and then placing the camera in really harsh directional light or run a bright flashlight beam along all of the seams where the holder is in the camera back.

Don't expose the film with a lens, just process it and see if you might just have a serious light leak. If that shows any exposure, you need to see to having the manufacturer deal with the leaks.

I could be dead wrong on this, but it's worth a look to double check the actual source.

Good luck.

Tim

[Scott Davis]

Also look and check to make sure the bellows is properly seated inside the camera body. I've not seated mine before and thought the screws were holding it in, but in fact were merely putting tension on the side of the bellows frame. Luckily, it popped out on me before I pulled a darkslide, and I was able to re-seat it and tighten it down properly.

[poco]

Walter,

I had the exact same issue with my SH and you've nailed the cause of the problem -- line that thin edge of wood with felt or something and you've solved it. If you go the felt route, like I did, just make sure you trim any fuzzies that may project into the light path because you don't have much depth on that ledge to play with.

[walter23]

Before you blame the inner paint job, that flare looks a bit like it could be light leaks...as though the back might be sprung (if that's possible) or the holder not being properly seated in the back.

The fact that there is an un-fogged area at the very edge makes it look as though the flare causing light is coming in from an edge angle rather than straight in from the lens and from any internal reflections.

No, it's definitely not light leaks. I don't see this in other (bright) scenarios as long as I'm not shooting in a flare-prone scenario. I've looked at similar scenes since realizing I had a problem and I can see it very clearly; it's flare from reflections off the inside. You can see the shadow (which now that I think of it is probably from the edge of the film holder blocking the path of the light bouncing off the frame) around the very edge of the film, which is consistent with this idea.



I could be dead wrong on this, but it's worth a look to double check the actual source.

It would be worth checking anyway, you're right - but I'm almost positive it's not a problem. I've done pinhole exposures with this, in bright sunlight, without seeing the problem, had the darkslide pulled for long periods of time waiting for the right moment, etc... it's only when something slightly bright is just out of scene so that it falls onto the wooden frame inside the back that I see this. And now that I know of the problem I can see it quite clearly on the ground glass while composing.

[lenser]

Hi, Walter.

If you can actually see it while composing, then it does sound like you've got the right diagnosis.

I've never seen an SH in person and shoot a Cambo SCX, a Calumet 400 series wide angle and a Zone VI, all of which have flat black interiors on exposed surfaces. No sign of flair or internal reflections from any of them.

I have had a handful of film holders produce light leaks, so I'm a bit gun shy in that direction. Good luck in solving your problem.

Tim

[David A. Goldfarb]

I've used the black flocking paper from Edmund Scientific for this sort of thing. It's also good for hard plastic and metal lens hoods, big empty lens barrels and such.

That said, in the photograph you posted, a compendium shade could have improved contrast significantly. They can be a pain in the wind and awkward for handheld press camera shooting, but otherwise, they aren't really that inconvenient, and they are more effective than fixed or rubber shades in general. They fold up small, and my box of 4x4" gel and polyester filters is lighter than my wallets of glass filters (though I can use those too with my Linhof compendium).

[walter23]

Here's another example. Can't believe I didn't notice this on the GG, but it was pretty dark out (rainy night):
http://ashphotography.ca/zenphoto/albums/victoria08/pisoff.jpg

Just so I can refer other people asking about the Shen Hao to this thread, I've attached pictures of the problem inside the camera. The first is the image on the ground glass with bright window placed along the top edge of the film (so that it hits the inside of the camera as well). Turns out the metal bellows frame is implicated as well. A compendium shade may in fact be easier than dealing with the bellows frame, since it's so thin and painted with kind of a glossy black paint.

This is definitely something I have to deal with soon. Thanks for the suggestions everyone - I'll see what works out best.

Sorry for the crappy quality - just a quick 'n dirty view, my main tripod was obviously in use and I couldn't be bothered to rig something else up for my digital camera.

[mrladewig]

Check with Woodcraft if you have one in your area. A nice flocking kit would work well and you can get "real" flocking that isn't a sticky back paper. You paint or spray on the adhesive and then blow on the flocking.

[Steve Goldstein]

I just remembered that Jon Goodman sells camera seal replacement kits on eBay under the name of interslice. He has access to some very high quality adhesive-backed flocking at very reasonable prices. He might be worth a try. I'm a satisfied customer, having replaced the light seals in my Olympus XA using his materials and instructions some time ago. I need to check if I have enough material left over to flock the inside edges of the back on my Shen-Hao...