The best film developer...

[Eric Woodbury]

...What is it? I know this is an impossible question, but I know it is one that we all must ask ourselves and I'm wondering how others have answered it.

I've been using PMK for about 25 years. I use it for roll and sheet film. All my film is HP5+. It works very well for me in roll and sheet, but sheet is a bit of a hassle as I use a JOBO drum on my own base. For this, I purge with nitrogen gas. And still, occasionally I screw up. I noticed some negs tonight that the stain is uneven. I don't know why. It is not streaks or swirls, it is big areas where there is a dark stain. I assume it is from a bad wetting of the neg before going into the tank.

So I'm looking for something bullet proof. One shot, keeps forever, works well with HP5+, can do contraction and expansion, roll and sheet film. I like Silvergrain's DS series, but I don't think the DS-10 is one shot and don't know much about it. I like that it is 'green' and I like his paper developer DS14. I like 510 pyro, too, but there is not much known about this and I find that the C and the TEA do react when mixed and sit in the bottle for months, even though others don't seem to notice (must be me).

So, what are you using? Thanks.

[davidb]

For HP5+, I use either xtol 1+2 or ID-11 1+1.

Xtol for the speed and for pushing (400 - 800)

ID-11 at 250.

[Bule]

I use 510 pyro; it lasts forever in concentrate, and is too easy to use. I don't know what you mean when you say the C and the TEA react, but I've been using the same batch for over a year and it still works exactly the same as it did when I mixed it up. In my opinion, 510-Pyro meets every one of your stated criteria, and more, you didn't mention semi-stand development, extreme dilutions for document films, or print developing. For my money, 510 pyro is as close to the perfect developer as I can imagine. I use it with my Jobo as my standard process, but it's comforting to know it will accomodate any wild and exotic impulses I might have. If you need information, I'm happy to share what I know about it, and I know other users who regularly share their 510 pyro experiences with me. I don't use a wide variety of films, but the few I do use, I use with dependable results. There's also a blog with lots of useful information here:

http://pyrostains.blogspot.com/

I've used many deelopers over the years, and I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better one than 510 pyro. Yes, I'm an enthusiast, but since you've used it yourself, you probably know it's justifiable. If you do find a better developer, please let me know!

[Scott Davis]

I'm partial to Pyrocat HD under the circumstances in which you process. It was developed for rotary processing, so it is not subject to any of the foibles/headaches of PMK under those conditions. And it lasts a very long time in the stock solution, but it will go bad over time. I've heard of shelf life being something around 1 year, but I've gone over 1 year with my working stock without failure. I'm now shooting and processing enough that I'll probably finish a bottle in under a year anyway.

[Luca Merlo]

Why not Rodinal. After all it is cheap, bullet proof and the oldest developer known :)

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I am with Luca.

Rodinal is one of my favorites with FP4+ and HP5+. I use it in a Jobo and it works every time. I am about to test Pyrocat MC for the fun of it as well, but Rodinal is a great choice.

Like you said however, this is almost an impossible question! :-)

[Eric Woodbury]

I understand Rodinal and HP5+ to be a 'not so great' combo. I don't know why, but that's what my readings have told me.

Thanks everybody.

[seawolf66]

I use ID-11 ilford developer and like it very much and I use it on foma also:

[Gene McCluney]

The "best" developer is one that consistently gives you negatives that you find easy to print.

If you make any developer change, there is going to be a time period (a learning period) where you will not get optimum negatives until you learn how to expose for the film + developer combination.

Any of the multi-part Pyro developers, Kodak HC-110, and Rodinal have exceptional shelf-life even in open bottles, in concentrate form.

Some developers work well in small tanks, but are useless for deep tank work. Some developers work best in tubes with constant agitation. Some developers have beautiful tones, but are grainy, others have extremely fine grain, but you suffer a considerable speed loss in ISO. All developers are a compromise. For what it is worth, I think all manufacturers "test" their film with Kodak D-76 and/or Ilford ID-11 or equivalent. This is considered to be a "standard" to compare all others to. It is not the finest grain, most beautiful tones, etc., yet it works extremely well with the largest variety of film stocks.

[Geert]

Rodinal would be interesting for your purposes.

I am known to develop a mixture of 12 sheets of different branded 4x5" films of different speed in the same batch of Rodinal 1+150 for 55 minutes. (*) Stand development, rotate first 30 seconds, have dinner and rotate 30 seconds at 30 minutes, go back for dessert.
"Easily" printable results. (at least, for me)

For my "more serious" work (8x10 & larger) I use different methods.


I understand Rodinal and HP5+ to be a 'not so great' combo. I don't know why, but that's what my readings have told me.
There's a lot of readings, mostly from people who fail at a given point. Why not try yourself?

G


(*) do not try this at home, only works for me - and only myself - after coming home with 100 sheets after a trip and "fast" development is needed! Films rated at half box speed.

[David Karp]

So I'm looking for something bullet proof. One shot, keeps forever, works well with HP5+, can do contraction and expansion, roll and sheet film.

Bullet proof? Try a 2 bath. Hard to screw up. I have been told it should not work, or it does not work as well as it used to, but they work for me. I have tried Barry Thornton's 2 bath, Divided D-76H, and Diafine. I like them all, except for TMax in Diafine. Mostly I use HP5+. My favorite for 4x5 is Thornton's. I would use DD-76H for 35mm.

If interested in the Thornton formula, check out my post in this thread: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=19918&highlight=barry+thornton

Diafine lasts forever. When I used it I would dispose of it before it was done, just because I could not accept the fact that it was still working, even though it clearly was.

[sparq]

I am another big fan of Barry Thornton's two bath developer. It is bulletproof, lasts for ever, and lets me process quite exotic films without extensive research (my most exotic film being Kodak SR45 radiographic film).

[Turner Reich]

HC110 is the best developer.
Rodinal is also the best develper.

[Joel Brown]

Kodak HC-110 1:64 tray development

[Kirk Fry]

Kodak HC-110 dil B, tray development. The stuff keeps for years as a concentrate and you use it as one shot.

[bob carnie]

Eric
I am with Gene on this one, you have been using a good developer for quite a while, its the one I use for extreme lighting and bright light.
If I want to push I will use D76 , my other favourite developer.


The "best" developer is one that consistently gives you negatives that you find easy to print.

If you make any developer change, there is going to be a time period (a learning period) where you will not get optimum negatives until you learn how to expose for the film + developer combination.

Any of the multi-part Pyro developers, Kodak HC-110, and Rodinal have exceptional shelf-life even in open bottles, in concentrate form.

Some developers work well in small tanks, but are useless for deep tank work. Some developers work best in tubes with constant agitation. Some developers have beautiful tones, but are grainy, others have extremely fine grain, but you suffer a considerable speed loss in ISO. All developers are a compromise. For what it is worth, I think all manufacturers "test" their film with Kodak D-76 and/or Ilford ID-11 or equivalent. This is considered to be a "standard" to compare all others to. It is not the finest grain, most beautiful tones, etc., yet it works extremely well with the largest variety of film stocks.

[Ken Lee]

Developers don't exist in a vacuum.

Perhaps your question should be "What is the best film/developer combination" ?

[Armin Seeholzer]

XTOL is for me the best allrounder for all my B/W films also Kodak I/R HIE!
I use it at full strengs and 1:1 and very seldom at 1:3!
It gives very good sharpness and fine grain and every film can be used at the full ASA if needed!
Its the really best, all who do not work with XTOL did not test it;--))))

Armin Seeholzer

[David Karp]

Before going 2 bath I used XTol and really liked it. I have considered trying a divided Mytol, but never have gotten around to it, mostly because I have been very happy with Thornton's formula.

Anyone ever try a divided Mytol or similar?

[Paul H]

Best developer? Are you trying to start WWIII ? ;)

If you don't mind mixing it yourself (and it's pretty easy in this case), you could try PC-TEA. The concentrate keeps well, it can be used in varying dilutions (I tend to 1+50, but occasionally use 1+100), works well for stand, inversion and continuous agitation, and is very economical. Seems to work well for a wide variety of films, from Efke 25 through TriX and Neopan 1600.

I shoot at box speed for most films with inversion or stand, and 1/2 a stop slower for Foma 100 when developed in the Paterson Orbital.

[Eric Woodbury]

Thanks for all your comments so far. I do appreciate.

Some return comments:
Ken, I know developers don't exist in a vacuum. As I said, I use HP5+. Don't want to change.
WWIII? I know. I'm not trying to start a pyro war such as I've seen at other forums. I'm hoping to gather experience.
Anybody else see TEA change color radically in the presents of C? This is what worries me about this combo. I could add the C in as a powder last, but I'm trying to make it simple and you could bet that I'd forget it sometime. Also, anybody see the activity of xCTEA change in the first few hours after mixing?
I like the HC110 idea. I have never used this developer.

Keep them coming.

[srbphoto]

My 2 cents...

Edwal FG-7 with TMAX 100

[Asher Kelman]

Is there any nuances in development to optimize for


enlarger or

contract prints.

scanning

platinum printing


Asher

[Eric Woodbury]

I enlarge mostly. Not much. I'm fond of the 8x10 print and then a few larger ones on occasion. 35mm only goes to 5x7.

[Captain_joe6]

Asher,

There can be, and sometimes definitely are, differences in developing for different printing processes. For enlarging, you would probably want to focus on edge sharpness and grain reduction and medium contrast. For contact printing, you'd most likely be after highlight/shadow compensation to avoid excessive dodging and burning and a good contrast match to your paper. Pt/pd and most other non-silver processes require negatives with a very long tonal scale and high densities in the highlights, which some film/developer combinations just aren't capable of. Scanning, I have no idea.

[Asher Kelman]

Asher,

There can be, and sometimes definitely are, differences in developing for different printing processes. For enlarging, you would probably want to focus on edge sharpness and grain reduction and medium contrast. For contact printing, you'd most likely be after highlight/shadow compensation to avoid excessive dodging and burning and a good contrast match to your paper. Pt/pd and most other non-silver processes require negatives with a very long tonal scale and high densities in the highlights, which some film/developer combinations just aren't capable of. Scanning, I have no idea.

Wow Joe, that a great start!

I hope we can flesh this out so that I can follow your ideas into practice.

Asher

[Gary L. Quay]

I like the HC110 idea. I have never used this developer.


I recently began using HC110, and so far, I like it. I had been using PMK, and I still plan to use it in the future for various projects. Whether either of these are the best... I don't know. Waiting in the wings I have a package of Photographers Formulary FX-1, which is supposed to be very good. The Du Pont developers (Defender) were also supposed to be very good. I haven't tried them yet. I suspect that "best" is in the eye of the beholder.

The trick is, as far as I've been able to see, is to find what you like. I've visited photographers exhibits where the prints have a very narrow tonal range (not quite white to not quite black), and the photographer says he / she likes that look. Personally, I like sharpness and a wide tonal range. This is why I want to try FX-1. Heck, I want to try everything, but the trouble is, as I've been learning, that sooner or later one has to find a developer / film combination, and stick with it long enough to perfect the process, and then decide from there what improvements are needed.

--Gary

[Ken Lee]

Ken, I know developers don't exist in a vacuum. As I said, I use HP5+. Don't want to change.

Oops - You're right. I missed the important point. :rolleyes: