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fireallconsuming
5-Jan-2008, 20:57
I'm looking for a new 4x5 and I'm not sure which way to go--
the two cameras I am looking most at are the Ebony SV45TE and the K.B. Canham 4x5--there isn't really a model number, its just the only one they have.

they are both in the same price range, and I feel like the titanium gears and all of the ebony are hard to beat...but alas, I need some advice please...

Walter Calahan
5-Jan-2008, 21:10
How deep is your pocket?

Both are great cameras, but it is more important to spend your money on great lenses that match your vision.

A camera is a box that keeps the light out until you open the shutter.

Titanium is just a metal.

Sal Santamaura
6-Jan-2008, 09:39
If at all possible get your hands on the cameras before deciding.

I once made a 125-mile round trip drive just to try a walnut/aluminum 4x5 Canham. Searching the archive of this forum will reveal numerous posts from Canham users who state that they find opening/closing the camera easy and rigidity not to be an issue. My experience during that examination was different. I found it fussy to set up / take down and flexible when locked. While reports are that any deflection resulting from applied pressure is only temporary and that the camera returns to its locked configuration when the pressure is released, my shooting involves very windy conditions where such flexibility is troublesome.

I own two mahogany Ebonys -- an SV57 and an SV Wholeplate. While those cameras are substantially more expensive than Canhams, 4x5 takes cost out of the equation. My strong recommendation is to go with an SV45Ti (there's no need for Ebony wood, so save the $300 and, more importantly, 1.3 lb.) and universal bellows. You'll not be disappointed with the camera's performance or ease of use.

Don Hutton
6-Jan-2008, 09:52
Having owned several iterations of both Ebony and Canham cameras, I'd heed Sal's advice - his experiences and conclusions are identical to mine.

Brian Ellis
6-Jan-2008, 10:01
Ebonys are certainly fine cameras, I owned two, the SVTi and the SVTe. Like Sal, I preferred the Ti (mahogony) for the weight savings plus FWIW I liked its looks better. However, if you search here you'll find threads where others have suggested that the mahogony version isn't as solid or firm or whatever as the ebony and also doesn't hold its resale value as well since buyers expect an Ebony camera to be ebony. I just pass this along for your info, I didn't find any difference between the two except for the weight and I traded in the mahogony so I don't know about its resale.

I wouldn't get too carried away with the fact that titanium is used. As Michael Mutmansky has pointed out in another thread, using titanium doesn't serve any real purpose except to keep the weight down (and of course adds substantially to the cost).

Sal Santamaura
6-Jan-2008, 10:28
...I wouldn't get too carried away with the fact that titanium is used. As Michael Mutmansky has pointed out in another thread, using titanium doesn't serve any real purpose except to keep the weight down (and of course adds substantially to the cost).From Badger's site today:

K.B. Canham Wood 4x5 - $2,650, 6 lb.
Ebony SV45Ti w/universal bellows - $2,645, 4.6 lb.

So titanium doesn't add anything to the cost.

To be fair, the Canham is really a 5x7 camera with 4x5 back (the 5x7 Canham is also 6 lb.), so a more appropriate weight comparison would be to an SV57. The SV57 weighs 6.6 lb. In my opinion, titanium's strength-to-weight ratio is its advantage for view camera applications. It's about as strong as steel, not aluminum. The SV57 weight is slightly higher, not a purpose for choosing titanium over aluminum at all.

As to solidity of mahogany and ebony wood versions of 4x5 Ebony cameras, I find it difficult to imagine anything other than Brian's conclusion that they're the same. Mahogany leaves nothing to be desired in my larger Ebonies, and any theoretical advantage of ebony would be even smaller in a 4x5.

Clyde Rogers
6-Jan-2008, 10:39
I've used a wood Canham 4x5/5x7 for years, and am currently also evaluating a non-folding Ebony 4x5 (quite different from the one you're looking at). I definitely prefer the Ebony for 4x5 (but miss my longer lenses...).

Still, I have to defend the Canham a bit. Canhams are built to provide excellent rigidity for their weight. They are generally quite light, with long bellows and surprising strength. The wood Canham, in my opinion, is a great lightweight 5x7 camera that can be converted to WP, 5x12, and 4x10. I also think it is a too large camera for just 4x5.

The Canham does have some differences from all other cameras in setup and folding. To me, these are differences, not quirks or deficiencies. Use the camera, and within short order they become second nature, and ended up making no difference to me in setup time or cognitive load.

My Ebony camera is smoother to focus than my Canham. They both seem plenty strong and rigid (perhaps the Ebony has an edge, it's hard for me to say).

Tell us where you are located, you may find folks here that live near you who can show one or the other to you. Good luck making your choice!

--clyde

Clyde Rogers
6-Jan-2008, 10:45
I missed Sal's response while composing mine---I've weighed my Canham wood 5x7 with the 4x5 back, and I get closer to 6.5 pounds (I think the specified 6 pounds is too optimistic for the camera).

Again, for strictly 4x5, I think the Canham is rather big and heavy. It is still an outstanding camera for other formats, though.

Later,

--clyde

Peter Lewin
6-Jan-2008, 14:40
I'm looking for a new 4x5 and I'm not sure which way to go--
the two cameras I am looking most at are the Ebony SV45TE and the K.B. Canham 4x5--there isn't really a model number, its just the only one they have.
Actually there are two Canhams, the wood & aluminum mentioned in prior posts, and the all-metal DLC45. The wood & aluminum model is, as mentioned, really a 5x7 which can be converted with different backs into a 4x5 or a 4x10. The DLC45 (which I have) is a non-convertible 4x5, but it is also lighter (4lbs 11oz) and more compact. While I can't compare the DLC to the Ebony (since I've never owned one) I'm sure you can be quite happy with any of the choices, in the end it will come down to your own sense of ergonomics (how the camera handles) and looks.

Brian Ellis
6-Jan-2008, 18:48
"K.B. Canham Wood 4x5 - $2,650, 6 lb.
Ebony SV45Ti w/universal bellows - $2,645, 4.6 lb.

So titanium doesn't add anything to the cost."

?????? How do you know what the Ebony would cost if it used a less expensive metal?

Sal Santamaura
6-Jan-2008, 19:07
"K.B. Canham Wood 4x5 - $2,650, 6 lb.
Ebony SV45Ti w/universal bellows - $2,645, 4.6 lb.

So titanium doesn't add anything to the cost."

?????? How do you know what the Ebony would cost if it used a less expensive metal?I don't know and that question is irrelevant. Ebony's use of titanium doesn't cause any cost differential between the two 4x5 cameras being considered by fireallconsuming.

Ted Harris
6-Jan-2008, 20:45
Personal preferences for one of the cameras v. the other there some substantive differences besides weight. I am assuming, btw, that the OP's interest is in the Canham 45/57 traditional not the DLC45. The Canham has substantially more bellows extension than the Ebony. If that doesn't matter and you are shooting only 4x5 then, to me (and I own a Canham), its overkill in terms of size.

Robert Skeoch
7-Jan-2008, 17:36
If you want to take a look at one and you're near Burlington, Ontario I have a Canham wood 4x5/5x7 and an Ebony.
-rob

Craig
7-Jan-2008, 22:33
Someday if I'm Toronto I'd like to take you up on that offer Rob.

davidb
7-Jan-2008, 22:40
which camera does better on resale?

Gordon Moat
7-Jan-2008, 23:55
which camera does better on resale?

The one you won't want to sell.:D

Jim Becia
8-Jan-2008, 07:12
I'm looking for a new 4x5 and I'm not sure which way to go--
the two cameras I am looking most at are the Ebony SV45TE and the K.B. Canham 4x5--there isn't really a model number, its just the only one they have.

they are both in the same price range, and I feel like the titanium gears and all of the ebony are hard to beat...but alas, I need some advice please...

I have owned both of these cameras and both are good. I stayed with the Ebony SV45Ti because of the way the front swing locks down and becaused it is slightly lighter (I have the mahagony version). For some reason, I struggled getting the Canhnam to stay locked in and parallel to the back when I owned it. With the Ebony I don't. As for breaking down the Canhnam, I never found it to be a problem. As a matter of fact, I do now own the Canham 4X10 and have been very pleased with it. As for the front standard, I realize that I just have to be more conscientious of locking it down properly and everything has been fine with it so far. If you have any desire to use a 600mm, the Canham would be the way to go. Also, as others have mentioned, the Canhnam is also a 5X7 by just switching out the back. So it can be quite versatile. In my opinion, either camera is well made and works well. Jim

fireallconsuming
8-Jan-2008, 12:16
thanks for the advice...it's nice to talk to people who have handled the cameras, I'm in East Tennessee, so I don't have much opportunity to handle either camera before I buy it. Right now I'm using an old calumet monorail camera which weighs about a ton...so I suppose either is a big step up.

BarryS
8-Jan-2008, 12:58
If haven't noticed, davidb is selling a used Canham DLC for a very good price over in the classifieds. The big advantage of buying a used camera is you can try it out and likely sell it for what you paid if it doesn't suit you. Very few of us have access to a bunch of cameras to try, so I think it helps to buy stuff with the attitude that it may or may not work out.

Monty McCutchen
8-Jan-2008, 13:12
Fireallconsuming,

I own a Canham and and Ebony in larger formats than your thread states, however if you are so inclined and wish to make the jaunt over to Asheville you can see firsthand the build quality of both Canham and Ebony and that may prove helpful.

You can pm me if you wish. If not no worries, and good luck with whatever you decide,

Monty

Steve Hamley
8-Jan-2008, 13:39
... I'm in East Tennessee, so I don't have much opportunity to handle either camera before I buy it.

I'm in Knoxville, where are you? I have Ebonys and have owned Canhams. The Canhams feel "limber" but I never had any problem with the wood 8x10 field, although I was concerned about it as it wore, although support from Canham is excellent.

The biggest problem I had with Canhams wwas the non-conventional lever locks, and prefer a more conventional camera. It always seemed like I needed three hands to work the Canham, although others likely think otherwise.

Cheers,

Steve

fireallconsuming
8-Jan-2008, 13:54
johnson city

Steve Hamley
8-Jan-2008, 14:41
I don't know what your time constraints are, but I'm recovering from outpatient knee surgery yesterday. It will be a week or two until I'm out and about much, but if you wanted to meet somewhere like the Smokies, say Big Creek to Tremont, or maybe Erwin later on, I'd be glad to let you test drive the SV45U, RW45, or SV810.

Steve

Tom Schaefer
8-Jan-2008, 15:00
Hi
I still have a Ebony SV45TI
in the for-sale section.
It comes with the universal Bellows, a wide angle
bellows and 4 Lens boards
2,000.00

Thanks
Tom Schaefer

Steve Hamley
8-Jan-2008, 15:06
That's about 25% off new, and if in near-new shape, an good buy.

Steve