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Rob_5419
5-Jan-2008, 06:21
In a new year party, I met up with some guys who work in various disciplines - freelance photography, carpentry; draughtsman (CAD) and antiques whilst I had my Gandolfi plate camera with me (always a head turner).

Our conversation turned and turned on the subject of traditional view cameras. The carpenter had remarked on the build aesthetics and workmanship of the turn of the 20th century Gandolfi, and the antiques dealer went on a tangent about the value of specific antique woods, whereas the photographer suggested tangents about design pragmatics, detailing how the weight would be impractical for anything other than a drive-by shoot or picnic excursion.

It was a fascinating discussion, and finally the carpenter popped the question: why we didn't build one to suit all of our three disciplines, and the plans could be designed on CAD. It sounded like a great idea, and after deciding on a budget to work towards, we've been exploring options and features for a custom (non-commercial) view camera.

The carpenter brought over some ebony and showed us how a ball of ebony weighed twice that of standard woods, in addition to a non-floating solid black wood which equally weighed a ton (used to make police batons to knock people into concussion).
The only objection to the ebony came from the other photographer, who felt that its weight would be incapacitating for any task other than the studio or a picnic, particularly for a whole plate camera. The pragmatic consensus is that an ebony wood seems like a very poor choice given its specific density, although it has every other factor in its favour. Other non-warping and humidity resistant woods are available, and have lower specific densities, however manufacturers seem to settle on cherry, beech, rosewood, walnut and oaks i.e. medium weight woods, none of which show durability over a longer timescale (the interest of the antiques dealer).
Mahogany and redwoods like merbau seem to be the exception.


There's a lot more to the detail of the woods and their technical characteristics, however I'd be interested to hear from others here, what kind of wood they would prefer for a custom designed camera.

Which wood would you prefer to use for a view camera?

Bruce Barlow
5-Jan-2008, 06:44
Richard Ritter likes cherry and mahogany for their stability and ease of working, in that priority. They also happen to be lovely, easily available, and comparatively inexpensive. I want the 4x5 - 8x10 he's making for me to be cherry. Hear that. Richard??

Colin Graham
5-Jan-2008, 08:50
I've made them out of cherry, mahogany, rosewood, walnut and even fiddleback maple here in the US. All are very suitable, although mahogany tended to be the lightest per board foot, and also the easiest to work. Despite the open grain it holds a very nice profile and planes like a dream, but there are ethical considerations, I use only the certified renewable though I'm not entirely sure how much of a difference it makes, there's good arguments on either side.... Interestingly, the fiddleback maple and rosewood seem to be the most dimensionally stable, but also the hardest on tool blades and the heaviest. Still nowhere near ebony. The maple though seems to have the most 'hidden tension'. I've had this tension damn near explode boards when ripping and resawing them. Once it's trued-up though it is very very stable. I've used lignum vitae in small small quantities for inlays- lignum has a soapy self-lubricating quality that's great for runners and slides and bearing surfaces.
Personally I love cherry, and for the mot part would never use anything else after trying many different types, but the last time at the lumber yard the cherry was unnaturally heavy so I went with the mahogany. Anyway, your choices will probably be vastly different in England.

Ernest Purdum
5-Jan-2008, 10:36
There is a problem today finding high quality mahogany. The Gandolfi brothers were very conscious of this so maintained a stock of very old wood. My thought is that top-grade mahogany stands up better than cherry to the use of a busy camera, and that other woods are either significantly heavier or harder to woirk. I would nominate teak as being the hardest on blades. Maybe the ideal wood for a "non commercial" camera would be some from a 120 year old something saved from the wrecker.

Sandeha
5-Jan-2008, 10:38
I've just made a 4x5 point-and-shoot out of cherry that I got from http://www.modellingtimbers.co.uk/4520.html and the quality is pretty good. The last view camera I made (I'm thinking that'd be 'last' in both senses) I made with American cherry and it was good to work with. From the craftsman's point of view (possibly not the antique dealer's), and given a minimum stability, I think you'd lean towards whichever wood provided the greatest satisfaction in working and finish.

Rob, if you know of a better source for trimmed wood in the UK, let me know.

Kuzano
5-Jan-2008, 11:31
Few people know woods like someone who builds guitars for a living (or other stringed) instruments. The wood have to be light, unchanging once built, and undergo the stress of strings trying to collapse the instrument. Guitars and other stringed instruments have to be built with woods that never move (if possible) for a long span of time.

I'm not saying there aren't some knowledgable people making cameras, but a verification of the lightest, highest strength woods could be confirmed this way, and you might actually find some fairly exotic woods that have excellent qualities for your project.

Pete Watkins
5-Jan-2008, 11:32
Rob, If you want a real laugh use MDF and tell people it's a Gandolfi. Imagine that, a cardboard camera! I'm sure that your antique dealer friend will be extatic!
Pete.

Rob_5419
5-Jan-2008, 13:07
Hey guys - thanks for the responses.

Let me go through how far I've got...

Bruce - cherry and mahogany are very easy to work with. The sheer lines are clean and the grain is beautiful and easy to dovetail. In many ways, these are too conventional although perfectly acceptable. I think we're going for a more specialist project.

Colin - that's a good point about the biosustainability of the wood, however a lot of mahogany tailboard wood is available, often as sections from other projects. Generally the size of the mahogany required for a camera is miniscule compared to the sizes of the logs used for furniture. As this isn't going to be a large scale project, I hope it's eco-friendly too.

Ernest - you're spot on. Teak is superb, and this is something the antiques dealer pointed out to me - Alaskan cedar; Australian lacewood are all prime choices because of their durability and resistance to termite attacks, as is Milo wood, and Malaysian Tualang with the advantage of not shrinking over time. The lacewood or teak are particularly good as oiled woods which resist humidity and deterioration in humid conditions. The photographer amongst us prefers the Australian lacewood which has a specific hardness greater than mahogany yet is just as light. I like the mahogany, but then that's what I've already got. The idea of aged mahogany is good, but its resistance to termite is not good.

Kuzano - thanks for the comment. Following your logic, we would then be better approaching a Stradivarius violin maker, right?

The tables for wood specific densities, bending, flex and warp are all available everywhere on the internet. The practical problem of knowing how well the qualities of the wood serves is another matter.

We are currently split between two woods: one is Manchurian Pearwood (guess who suggested that?) and the other is Southern American Purpleheart.

I'd never heard of either woods until shown a catalogue of some of the amazing furniture designed in these woods. Two of us are gravitating towards the he Manchurian Pearwood as a foundation for the camera. This is a sumptuously gorgeous wood used in traditional chinese antique furniture and has a very striking and classy appearance. The carpenter on the otherhand is keen on the Purpleheart - I find this intoxicatingly gaudy however no denying it - it's incredibly distinctive. Remember that none of these woods need staining nor dying.

Sandeha - it's easy to import a block of this stuff, but not through regular suppliers. Where did you buy all your fixtures then? I guess titanium fixtures aren't going to be easy to source (or will blow the budget out).

Pete! Over to the naughty chair right now! MDF is so 1980's ;)
I suppose that could be another marketing venture.......the new MDF Holgofi or Gandolga........

Scott --
5-Jan-2008, 13:17
Pearwood is expensive, and purpleheart is dense (and has interlaced grain, is heavy, dulls tools, and the dust is a sensitizer...). That said, purpleheart is so purty. And I think its additional weight would be negligible in the quantities used in a camera. You know it only stays purple when freshly milled, right?

Rob_5419
5-Jan-2008, 13:39
Scott -

Manchurian pearwood is gorgeous!!! The only think holding us back from this is sourcing a huge big lump and getting it imported back to England. It's a lot cheaper
at source than through import agents (so I've found for every single wood).

The purty purpleheart is dense with tight beautiful interlacing grain - but have you weighed how light it is compared to ebony?? Yes - it is negligible even at whole plate dimension size. It's a huge improvement in weight although it would be heavier than the pearwood.

The carpenter showed me a ball of purplewood which was psychedelic purple all over. Is it the lacquer or veneer which stops it from fading? I know some woods, particularly oiled woods and medium grain woods tend to fade in sunlight. I wasn't aware that the purpleheart would do likewise. I'll double check on that since it would be a big no no....

Ole Tjugen
5-Jan-2008, 13:55
Last time I thought about this, I decided to check out the properties of juniper. It's been used in Norway for millennia, wherever a hard, stable, and rot-proof wood was needed in smaller quantities. Building anything much bigger than a camera from it would be difficult, though..

Besides, I just love the smell of freshly worked juniper - it's an absolute joy to work with for that reason alone!

John Schneider
5-Jan-2008, 14:06
Some random thoughts: Purpleheart is an absolute bear to work; forget about using any hand tools (like a chisel to cut dovetails). It's very difficult to get a furniture-grade finish by planing, as it's so prone to tear out. You'd probably want to invest in a thickness sander if you went that route. Like many of the colorful exotics (greenheart, bloodwood, etc.), purpleheart's brilliant color fades upon exposure to air and light (it turns a dark muddy reddish-brown). In my experience, the exotic that holds its brilliant color best is bubinga, but that tends to be stringy and prone to tension wood.

I haven't checked this under a microscope, but several of the old cameras I've refinished appear to be made of red gum, which is a nice wood to use and has a good balance of properties.

If you want the best strength-to-weight ratio, the clear choice is sitka spruce. As you've talked to luthiers, I'm surprised none have mentioned that, as it's used in many stringed instruments. It does tend to be soft and prone to crush damage, and you'd have to go with aircraft grade to get sufficient quality wood.

I've made some furniture and have talked to many other furniture makers, and most prefer black walnut over all other woods for its near-perfect blend of qualities (power tool cutting, hand tool working, dimensional stability, strength, gluability, figure, etc.). This is probably why black walnut (along with Honduras mahogany) is used so much for modern wooden cameras.

George Hart
5-Jan-2008, 14:08
Rob, I suspect that aesthetics shapes the opinions that many express regarding choice of camera wood. However, I remember how Mike Walker (no connection) responded when I told him that I had a camera made out of ebony. He said that the screws tend to follow the grain, rather than where the manufacturer really wants them to go. To what extent this applies to other woods I cannot say, but Mike solves this problem with his cameras, and other problems including dimensional stability, by using ABS plastic!!!

Nathan Potter
5-Jan-2008, 14:50
I've not made full scale LF cameras out of wood but I've made parts of them (adapters) etc. using South American Ipe from Brazil. I buy it for decks around my house then store the excess for a few years so that it is very dry. It's hard and heavy almost like ebony.
It's also commonly known as Ironwood. At a deck supplier it runs about $3.00 per board foot in 1 X 6 so it is real cheap. I saw it and use a metal mill to shape it.

Also many years ago I used Tamarack (Larch) root stock for parts for a Leitz 4X5 camera mod (front std., rail parts. etc.). It was outstanding to work and relatively light.
But I think the growth form is important. A boat building friend suggested it and claimed that it was the wood of choice for connecting the keel to the ribs. I found some dead tamarack in a bog in Maine and excavated the root structure. The tree had been stunted by the growth conditions and had a very tight annual ring structure (base 6 inches in diameter and about 350 years old). Some of the best wood I've ever worked with.

Nate Potter
Austin TX.

seawolf66
5-Jan-2008, 14:54
when building something that needs to exact and needs not to move much in aspect of expansion and contraction: so one needs to get what is called Quarter sawed wood and with mahogoney that would be Prize cut:
Now for woods my choices would be american Walnut , cherry, and Mahogoney there a couple of others but those three will give you a good start:

john collins
5-Jan-2008, 14:55
Rob,

Properly dried walnut is an excellent choice because of its dimensional stability and, depending on the piece selected, it can be exceedingly beautiful.

Eric Woodbury
5-Jan-2008, 15:06
I made a couple of cherry and cherry/aluminum cameras 25 years ago and they are still together. Cherry is nice to work, easy to get, domestic.

Colin Graham
5-Jan-2008, 15:16
Yeah, purpleheart will oxidize and darken with exposure, although even a penetrating oil finish with keep it from going a dull brown. I have some picture frames I made from purpleheart that are about fifteen years old that are still quite purple and i only used a light coat of penofin on them. They aren't screeching purple like the freshly milled surfaces, but still they're purple.

Pearwood, what a great idea though! That would be a wonderful choice. I've seen some jewelry boxes in curly Swiss pear that are stunning.

Pete Watkins
5-Jan-2008, 15:16
Sorry Rob,
Do you really mean that nobodys told you that Gandolfi have actually made their cameras out of MDF in the recent past (they probably still do, despite the carconagenic properties of the stuff). Imaging some geezer in a hundred years time sanding down the antique field camera that he's just bought in Portobello Road only to find out that it's made of compressed cardboard. This was brought up on APUG some years ago and some punter defended Gandolfi by saying that they used "marine quality" MDF. I've gotta confess that we don't see many MDF boats cruising along The Coventry Canal, in fact the next one will be the first!
Didn't I hear of a company in The States who employed a bloke to go around buying old pianoes to use the mahogany for camera manufacturing?
Best wishes,
Pete.

mrladewig
5-Jan-2008, 22:22
I've built some lens boards out of Bubinga. Very sturdy it seems and also quite nice looking. Very heavy though.

Bernard Kaye
5-Jan-2008, 22:26
As some said, buy it aged and dry, hardwoods may shape shift and warp when drying.: think of live oak and hard maple: tough on tools, tough to work but how many cameras you going to make? Some hard maple is beautifully "grained" and defects are easily sighted before you cut, plane & fit what should be culled. Bernie

Gordon Moat
5-Jan-2008, 22:44
Cocobola or Paduc would make for an interesting camera. Neither is very common, so the look would be more exotic than using Teak or Walnut.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

Skorzen
5-Jan-2008, 22:45
Well I have a little experience with some of the exotic woods through my bass guitar building exploits. I will say that probably 98% of guitar necks are either mahogany or maple. That being said the bass I built for myself has a white ash/pau ferro (rosewood) neck. A couple woods that came to mind that have not been mentioned so far that I think are worth considering are Wenge and Zebra wood. Wenge is tough on tools but is tough stuff in general so it wears very well. I don't know what the exact numbers are but it seems lighter to me than other similarly hard woods. Zebra wood is interesting for its aesthetic properties, I don't know exactly how it compares stability wise but it's worth a look.

Skorzen
5-Jan-2008, 22:48
Cocobola or Paduc would make for an interesting camera. Neither is very common, so the look would be more exotic than using Teak or Walnut.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)


The thing with both of these is that they fade over time, I have some Cocobolo that was very dramatic at first but now looks a little more of a uniform rust color. Padauk fades in a similar manner. I suppose if a camera spend most of it's life in a case this may be less of an issue.

Dave Parker
6-Jan-2008, 09:33
If you want to get exposure to how some of these exotics age, see if you can find a group of traditional archery people who make or have their bows custom made for them, I am a traditional archer and have many friends who make bows for their living, they are well versed in the way the woods age, how colors change and what type of grain as well as stability each type of wood has. One of the local bowyers here where I live, has more than enough scrap on hand at all times that securing enough wood to build a camera would not be hard or expensive, I have another friend in New Mexico that builds bows, and is willing to send me all of his cut offs and scrape for the price of shipping! Both of these guys import just about any type of wood you can think of. I made knife handles a few years ago, our of their scrapes, and I tell you what, it was a very good learning experience to understand the various properties of dozens of different types of wood, and best of all, it was very little investment on my part, as they normally throw the scrapes in the fireplace or the trash.

So look up a bowyer and you might be surprised at the wide and varied nature of the woods you can work with, without much investment.

Dave

Jim Fitzgerald
6-Jan-2008, 11:15
I just finished building my 8x20 out of American Walnut that I have had for a long time. The camera comes in at 14 lbs. It is stable. It is designed like the Korona's of old. With the extension and stabilizer bars maybe 15 lbs. I also made my Walnut tripod. It is 10 lbs. and that is with the big majestic head. Again very stable. Several of you from this site have seen it and it is a beautiful wood to use. I'm building an 11x14 with the left over Walnut!

Jim

Armin Seeholzer
6-Jan-2008, 17:22
1. Walnut 2. Ash 3. Mahagoni or Oak

Thats me as an ex carpenter!

venchka
7-Jan-2008, 11:18
I suggest you make the acquaintance of a wooden boat builder. Buy some of his off cuts and scraps.

I've been giving this some thought as well. I happen to have some left over pieces of Lloyds certified marine plywood. The wood species is Khaya ivorensis, a.k.a. African Mahogany. This wood would rank very well alongside Honduran Mahogany or American cherry. It is a favorite among botbuilders as well.

My candidate for the hard, durable, stable bits is black locust. A lovely light colored wood that is stable, hard, strong, stiff and basiaccly bullet proof without the weight of teak or ebony. It also grows like a weed in North America so sustainablilty is not a problem. Osage orange, Bois d'Arc, would be my second choice. Reclaimed English oak would certainly be an option in the U.K. Iroko is another African hardwaood that used to be popular in boats in the U.K.. I don't know if it still common.

The idea that keeps surfacing in my brain is to use Sitka spruce or Alaska yellow cedar in an epoxy glued laminate. GOOGLE modern boatbuilding techniques for an example of what I'm talking about. 1/8 strips of wood are glued up to the required thickness and then machined to final size. The resulting lamination is far stronger than a piece of the same wood in solid form. Either of these woods has a very high strength to weight ratio. Sitka spruce may be too soft to hold fasteners of the size used in a camera.

Any good modern book on laminated boatbuilding should give you a lot of ideas.

My question: I know the wood can be shaped and joined. I know I can buy bellows. How the heck do you make all the metal bits?

Cheers!

Mark Sampson
7-Jan-2008, 12:32
1) I read somewhere that the wood in Phillips cameras is sourced from salvaged logs that had been sunk in Lake Superior.
2) Zone VI offered their cameras in cherry, mahogany, and walnut. I remember a newsletter saying that they had made four (4) cameras in pearwood and were offering them at a premium price. I wonder who has them now?
3) In the early 80's Wista offered an ebony camera at 2X normal price- another limited run.
4) Musical instrument makers choose woods for their tonal properties... what do you want your camera to sound like? Rosewood back and sides will give a louder bass.
5) There was a teak Deardorff copy called the Rajah, made in India in the '80s. It was rickety, but not because of the wood.
6) I'd look at what the 19th century makers did. There was lots of knowledge even then, and the best woods were abundant and cheap.
7)I've used wooden camera made of maple (Ansco), cherry (Tachihara), and mahogany (Z-VI among others). All of them worked well.

Robbie Shymanski
7-Jan-2008, 15:12
Aircraft plywood?.. Anyone?

If you insist on solid wood, make sure it's quarted or flat-sawn. Less warpage.

Zach In Israel
8-Jan-2008, 00:33
I know that many of the makers of high end Dobsonian telescopes (Dave Kregie of Obsession etc) Swear by Appleply or Baltic Birch, which are HVHC plywoods. I am planning to get some of that to build a scope, I may try working a camera out of the leftovers (though I think I would want a thinner sheet for a camera)

Mark Sawyer
8-Jan-2008, 17:04
Perhaps it's just a regional (southwestern US) thing, but mesquite would also be a respectable, practical, and aesthetically pleasing choice. For purely aesthetic reasons, I'd like bird's-eye maple or tiger maple, though I suspect both would be a bear to work...

Ben Chase
8-Jan-2008, 20:42
Desert Ironwood. It's hard, it's expensive, it looks cool.

Alan Davenport
8-Jan-2008, 20:49
Which wood you choose? ..

Cherry for photos that are as good as new.
Maple for sweet pictures.
Pine for the soft look.
Oak for photos with intensified grain.
Mesquite to photograph the desert southwest.
Teak for seascapes...

John Kasaian
8-Jan-2008, 21:17
Mahogany salvaged from the back bars of saloons that went out of business during prohibition, of course!:)

Paul Fitzgerald
8-Jan-2008, 21:28
Hi there,

Walnut, color of your choice
Black ash
Virginia White oak
English Brown oak
Beech
Canarywood
Bloodwood, not Purpleheart
Pearwood
Applewood
Black locust

They all work well and look fine. They are all available on ebay BUT shipping is a killer.

I've never seen New Zealand kauri wood, but at 30,000 years old it should be stable, fabled to have pearlescent streaks throughout the grain. Could be interesting.

chilihead
9-Jan-2008, 01:24
How about buying a Linhof Technica IV and you'll dump the "wood" idea for freakin' ever.

evan clarke
9-Jan-2008, 04:33
"Which wood would you prefer to use for a view camera?"

Aluminum..:rolleyes: EC

Rob_5419
10-Jan-2008, 11:32
Wowsers.

I wasn't expecting so many replies. Thanks everyone.

That's so much to start thinking about. You've really raised my interest to some possibilities I haven't thought about.

Gotta keep on looking and narrow this down now..

Sandeha
10-Jan-2008, 11:56
Sandeha - it's easy to import a block of this stuff, but not through regular suppliers. Where did you buy all your fixtures then? I guess titanium fixtures aren't going to be easy to source (or will blow the budget out).


I bought spirit levels from www.spirit-levels.co.uk, and knobs from www.rosshandling.co.uk ... both were easy to deal with.

The rest of the metalwork on my field camera was industrial brass stock that I picked up from a trade supplier while I was still living in Singapore. There are plenty of non-ferous metal suppliers here in the UK, but the price of brass has probably doubled since then ...

venchka
10-Jan-2008, 13:11
http://www.robbins.co.uk/Pdf%20Files/Specmarine_Teak_0807.pdf

Robbins Tmber has a good reputation among U.K. members of the WoodenBoat Forum.

Doug Dolde
28-May-2009, 13:13
I've been making frames out of Padauk. Works very nicely. The sawdust is orange though and make a real mess.

I saw some African Wenge when I was buying the Padauk. Looks a bit like Ebony with lighter stripes. But harder on tools than Padauk.

That said, if I were making a camera, I'd probably try Ebony. I built guitars in the 70's out of Ebony and Rosewood.

http://www.arizonaconnect.net/pwl/SEDONA_FRAMED.jpg

Patrick Dixon
28-May-2009, 14:26
http://www.robbins.co.uk/Pdf%20Files/Specmarine_Teak_0807.pdf

Robbins Tmber has a good reputation among U.K. members of the WoodenBoat Forum.

Robbins are good. Helpful too, and they don't mind dealing in small quantities.

eric black
28-May-2009, 14:55
pearwood with ebony accent pieces would be quite striking. For that matter, a well engineered ebony camera with lighter accents would be as well- the thing doesnt have to be backpackable up K2 does it? I wouldnt discount ebony- its one of my favorites for both look and feel.

eduardtoader
17-Mar-2010, 03:36
I recently cut a 50 cm diameter trunk (50 cm large) of almond tree and 1 meter of olive tree (40 cm diameter) . Both are beautiful tree and very, very strong. The almond is a little bit darker than mahogany and the olive is like poems - you have to pay attention for understand it structure.
the almond is a little bit difficult to meet it but if someone want some pieces of olive tree, contact me please. I will make possible to help. I can send some photo samples of the wood texture.

here you have a useful blog:

http://camera.biyeun.com/

Bob Salomon
17-Mar-2010, 04:19
"3) In the early 80's Wista offered an ebony camera at 2X normal price- another limited run."

No.

Wista currently makes and sells wood 4x5 cameras in cherry, rosewood, ebony and quince wood. None are special runs. All are open stock.

Steven Tribe
17-Mar-2010, 05:25
Almond sounds like a good idea, but remember the heart wood will be less than the 50cm. I would have thought that olive was a bit too irregular in grain and "mottled" in colouration to be easy to work or attractive in finish. But perhaps I am influenced by the turned products I saw on sale on Mallorca a week ago!

Looking back through this old thread, which I have not seen before, I have a few general contributions.

Mahogany, these days, is a generic name for lots of different timbers which have a superficial similarity to the original and now totally protected species from middle America and the Islands. But few have the real usefulness of the original.

Walnut is a very different wood in the different continents. Even in Europe there are great variations between individual trees. But the most suitable are at least as good/attractive as the original mahogany.

As can be seen from the above, I have little belief in modern products. As we require little volume and short lengths, the best way to get the right wood is to search for old furniture made from the required wood which are not collectors items. Don't be put off by the dark and discoloured surfaces - very few stains will have penetrated the wood. And you have timber that is seasoned and 100% stable.

Robert Hughes
17-Mar-2010, 07:12
Oak and pine are more than sufficient to build a camera. If you're building jewelry to put on your tripod, then go for broke!

BetterSense
17-Mar-2010, 11:27
Why not sapient pearwood?

bobwysiwyg
17-Mar-2010, 11:57
..:)

Andrew M
18-Mar-2010, 20:20
Almond sounds like a good idea, but remember the heart wood will be less than the 50cm. I would have thought that olive was a bit too irregular in grain and "mottled" in colouration to be easy to work or attractive in finish. But perhaps I am influenced by the turned products I saw on sale on Mallorca a week ago!



Seeing the mention of fruit and nut orchid trees and then the olive reminded me of when I made turned products out of them..afer curing for a year or three, cut pieces covered in synthetic type of wax that lets the timber slowly breathe and cure to avoid cracking etc

The almond and other fruit trees ,apricot etc all worked nicely as expected, they all had their own look but the Olive! wow! that looked much nicer imo but was weird to work with, it obviously needed more years to cure because on the lathe spinning it while cutting it was spraying out moisture all over me, it was easy to work with still, cut like timber still, not like green wood but retained its moisture content..as such, bowls etc once turned and then only thin material (instead of a chunk of wood) warped out of shape, in my case that added 'charm' to the bowls that were now very cool 'art' :D


I would agree on using timber from old furniture as well..some Tasmanian huon pine accents might look nice, although i suspect it would be fine for the whole (light weight) camera .A beautiful very bright yellow to orange, durable timber that has been used to make everything from furniture to boats in years gone by.

Robert Hughes
19-Mar-2010, 07:12
Tasmanian huon pine accents? :eek: I'd be scared to take it outside, much less tromp up the side of a muddy embankment with it. I'd never use it, but put it behind a glass-faced case and admire it from afar every now and then.

Remember visiting grandma, and how guilty and uncomfortable you felt when she quickly swiped your juice cup off the bare dining room table, clucking under her breath while placing a doily in front of you for said cup? That's just the way I'd feel with an overly precious jewelry box that somehow started life as a photographic instrument. Eek! Gimme a beat up old press camera any day.

Andrew M
19-Mar-2010, 07:33
LOL, yeah, well ordinarily that might be so with Huon Pine but it was on my mind. Because just the other day, out the back of an 'antique' shop, that sold mostly broken old phones, pots and pans etc etc (bric a brac really) and also some old broken furniture, there was this Huon pine wardrobe , pretty ratty to be considered much good as usable wardrobe again but plenty of good usable timber in it, the sides, sections of the front were HP, the centre door (also HP) was pulled off and nailed inside for a makeshift shelf...it was only about $65-$75, too much to pay as a wardrobe but great timber value, possibly enough for a dozen cameras :) it didn't really occur to me at the time!

GSX4
19-Mar-2010, 08:01
My vote goes to Bolivian Rosewood. It's a rare wood and not too eco friendly, but it makes wonderful cameras and parts... Here are a few examples I made..... a 4x5 pinhole camera and a wet plate back for my Chamonix 45-N camera.

thart2009
19-Mar-2010, 08:50
I'm not a camera maker or woodworker (yet) but I copied the parts from a Bender and used a number of different woods. Most of which was scrap given to me by a friend. I used jatoba, ebony, sapele, wenge, cherry & leopardwood. Ebony is so smooth and hard. If finished properly (I am still working on that) it is beautiful. I would like to build a complete camera from Ebony and use a red bellows. It's a little hard to work though, and the dust from sanding is very fine and gets in everything. My favorite though is leopardwood. A little grainy but very unique looking. And not too expensive.

Lachlan 717
19-Mar-2010, 10:20
Jarrah (Eucalyptus marginata)

Get Fair Dinkum.

Rick A
24-Mar-2010, 17:06
I cobbled up a nice little 4x5 field camera out of mahogany. All the joinery is hand cut dovetails. It has a fixed back with swings, tilt, shift , and rise and fall front. Used a Rodenstock lens and shutter pulled from a Polaroid 110B. It was my first foray into LF(well, second if you count my 4x5 pinhole-made the same way).

goamules
25-Mar-2010, 07:53
I'd go for walnut (http://www.flickr.com/photos/simmsgunstocks/3947831689/). The link shows a nice custom gunstock made from a choice piece. Gunstocks have traditionally been walnut and it wears very nice for something that may get knocked around. For something you are going to "shoot" with, it can't be beat.

eduardtoader
10-Aug-2010, 13:24
Could someone describe here the field camera focus system? Photos, drawings - all would be welcome..

It does exist some shop or factory could provide me a milimetric rack and the other metal pieces?

I only worked with monorail cameras but I would like to build a 8x10 field camera or something bigger.

Thank you all.

Mark Sawyer
10-Aug-2010, 14:56
Perhaps an 8x10 made from a dead Jeffrey Pine, grown atop Sentinel Dome in Yosemite?

Donald Miller
10-Aug-2010, 16:41
Could someone describe here the field camera focus system? Photos, drawings - all would be welcome..

It does exist some shop or factory could provide me a milimetric rack and the other metal pieces?

I only worked with monorail cameras but I would like to build a 8x10 field camera or something bigger.

Thank you all.


The focus system on field cameras is usually of a double or triple bed extension design with the extensions being rectangular wood frames with rack and pinion gearing to drive (move) the extensions.

This is one source of the racks and pinion gearing. Also a source of small brass pieces from which the various components can be fabricated...

http://www.smallparts.com/

Michael Wynd
10-Aug-2010, 17:27
Lachlan,
before deciding to make my camera out of Carbon Fibre, I was going to use Jarrah and Yellow Gum for the accents. But then I thought about getting it as light as I can.
Mike

Lachlan 717
10-Aug-2010, 18:01
Lachlan,
before deciding to make my camera out of Carbon Fibre, I was going to use Jarrah and Yellow Gum for the accents. But then I thought about getting it as light as I can.
Mike

There have to be some other Aussie timbers out there for this. Blackwood would be awesome; Redgum might be a bit unstable. Aussie Mahogany if you can find any left. Red Iron Bark and Yellow Gum have been used as dock pylons for years, many not needing replacement since they were put in place over 100 years ago.

My favourite? Carbon Fibre and Jarrah would look amazing...

MalRayPhotography
14-Aug-2010, 17:31
My brief experience is with cherry. This wood combines beauty, strength, high resistance to splintering when running screws in it, and appears to be quite light in weight. Lets face it, load up the truck for travel and photography and you will find that you can't do it without hundreds of pounds of equipment, camping, food, etc etc so everywhere you can trim weight is probably a really good thing.

Jay DeFehr
14-Aug-2010, 19:23
I have neatly stacked and waiting for me to find time to work it, some lovely ebony, western red cedar, and sitka spruce for my 4x5 portrait camera project.

For another project, I'll use plastic/carbon fiber and aluminum. Once one feels the weight and rigidity of these materials, nothing else seems so practical or exotic.

John Kasaian
14-Aug-2010, 22:24
Goncalo Alves?

Curt
14-Aug-2010, 23:17
Zebrawood is one of the finest looking woods in the World.

Drew Bedo
15-Aug-2010, 06:22
For a one-off project why not look for a piece of unsalvagable furnature in he wood you choose. a desk or Table That can nolonger be sold as a desirable item might be inexpensive , yet yield enough well cured old growth wood for the project. The wood and wood-working may be less of a challange than fabricating the metal fittings.

Please up-date us on this project and post photos!

Cheers!

crabclawhands
15-Aug-2010, 10:58
A few years ago I made a couple of electric guitars, it seems many of the properties for good guitar woods are also applicable to large format cameras. Wouldn't fancy an open long grain like ash for a camera, even if it is very rigid, but I could be totally wrong, it's not like i'm a carpenter.

Short close grain seems to be the order of the day, it'd be really interesting to see one made of zebrano or lacewood, but I think the manufacturers have been getting it dead on with rosewood, maple, cherry and walnut. An extra bonus is they might sound good with strings and tuners when at full extension, possible hybrid project for someone :)

In the UK http://www.craft-supplies.co.uk/ offer a great range of seasoned timber for instrument making, and they always seem less expensive than anyone else.

Robert Hughes
15-Aug-2010, 14:56
I used mostly oak for the 8x10 box camera I built - except the sliding box elements aren't wood, rather black foam core. It works just fine. :)

John Jarosz
15-Aug-2010, 16:13
I've made solid body guitars and my back for the 8x20 out of Cuban mahogany. Very nice to work with. Good sound too.

If I was going to built a complete camera from scratch I'd choose cherry for the reasons mentions in previous posts. Cherry is lighter than walnut but not as brittle, it doesn't crack like walnut can, and it machines beautifully.

As mahogany ages it gets lighter. As cherry ages it gets darker.

john

Steve M Hostetter
16-Aug-2010, 10:05
Get your patern list of dimentions and go to the place near you that sells hardwoods..

Look and see what you can get that looks good .. If you will need wider boards like say 3-6" wide look for wood that isn't cupped..

I found the best wood for making cameras is african paduak.. doesn't crack, doesn't warp,, and is extremely straight in all directions..! Not to mention georgous wood grain and colors and goes good with purple heart wood to spice it up

I just bought 13' x 6-1/2" x 1/4" thick for $72.00

Thats enough wood to make you a 16x20,, maybe,, depends on your design
have fun and good luck:)
steve

Steven Tribe
16-Aug-2010, 11:03
"go to the place near you that sells hardwoods".

I live in a West European country, close to the capital. I can assure you that there is no place near me that sells a selection of hardwoods. There used to be a timber merchant that had rough sawn lengths of oak, ash and teak. The owner retired and sold out and the big frame saw was thrown away. I have never found anywhere else that has other than softwoods and very occasionally oak. I was recently involved in rennovation of an oak timbered house. I managed to find the 8x8" oak lengths - eventually. But the maximum lengths available in Denmark was under 4 meters - even for 6x6". "You will have to import that from Germany or France" I was told.

The strange thing about this is that Europe's biggest world trader in imported hardwoods have they main office about 6 miles from where I live!

A few other comments.

I don't have cracking experiences with walnut when the right piece has been selected and used. Walnut has much more irregularity than mahogany ( and the modern timbers called mahogany) and sections of timber which should have used as firewood often find their way into timber outlets.

I thought I was forward thinking some 20 years ago when I felled and rough cut quite a few cherry trees. The timber is fine for use now, yearly growth is somewhat course, though and the colour of finished timbers is a bit unexciting.

As someone earlier in the thread said - look for small furniture items with no interest for other buyers, yet made from quality wood. Even discolored varnish is easily removed and hides the "treasure" underneath.

Scott --
16-Aug-2010, 11:13
I haven't read this whole thread (egad), but for those in the US or Canada, you can use Woodfinder (http://woodfinder.com/) free of charge to locate lumber suppliers.

Also, for those unfamiliar with the black walnut available in the US, it tends to be porous and brittle, prone to cracking especially when thicknesses less than, say, 1/4" are used, as in joinery.

Steven Tribe
16-Aug-2010, 15:14
It was, of course, european walnut I was talking about, which has a light golden!straw coloured appearance. It was the preferred fine furniture material in Europe until the Cuban Mahogany and better sorts of American walnut appeared. Most of the european tailboard cameras from 1880-1910 were made from european walnut.

Gary Beasley
16-Aug-2010, 18:59
I've been told by an experienced woodworker you can heat treat purpleheart ( just under scorching temp) and it will turn an intense purple and stay that way if finished with an airtight finish. I have yet to try it out myself so feel free to experiment.

Colin Graham
17-Aug-2010, 05:46
As can be seen from the above, I have little belief in modern products. As we require little volume and short lengths, the best way to get the right wood is to search for old furniture made from the required wood which are not collectors items. Don't be put off by the dark and discoloured surfaces - very few stains will have penetrated the wood. And you have timber that is seasoned and 100% stable.


Just be careful that the old furniture you choose isn't simply veneered, ie mahogany or walnut laid up over a poplar core.

Scott --
17-Aug-2010, 07:44
What Colin said. And as for cherry's stability, it does move. I built my daughter a chest of drawers with a solid cherry top a few years ago. It moves about 3/8" across its width in a season. Now, this is a much broader field than you'd see on a camera, but cherry does move, which is why larger lensboards really need to be made in three pieces (barring use of plywood, ugh).

Google "shrinkulator".

dhoymd2hi
7-Dec-2011, 18:26
Hi Colin,
Since you said that you've built multiple cameras, what plans do you build from? Did you make your own, or use plans you ordered. I'm looking to build one myself, a 4x5 field camera. Any help would be much appreciated.

Lightbender
7-Dec-2011, 23:16
>not a woodworker<

I have zone Vi in in cherry and a shen hao in walnut.
The walnut wins hands down in looks.

One of the makers (tachihara?) used to make a dark stained rosewood that was very elegant and striking.

Regarding Purple-heart: I read a recent article about illegal purpleheart logging in Madagascar protected forests. The logs get smuggled around the world and resold. Even though its a small amount, it seems there are enough reasons ~not~ to use purple-heart already listed.


Suggestion: Any chance you can source wood by recycling old furniture? You could get some original mahogany, oak, or walnut. It should be easy to harvest the small pieces needed for a camera.

eduardtoader
8-Dec-2011, 03:04
Hello.

I'm not shure if this is the right place to ask about but ,I can't meet anothet thread to read about.
I also consulted collodion.com where they have a dyi space but I did'nt met what I'm looking for.

I have several months trying to begin a 8x10 or larger project. I also was looking for a Deardorff type folding camera to restore but I didn'nt met a big deal.. After a wet plate workshop I decided to keep working on 4x5 on film and let the 8x10 to the coming years... Who knows?

So, I am between two bunch of recycled beech wood, surely dry thorough 30-40 years, enough sapeli? wood recycled too, less olive wood and some almond wood. I'm very excited to begin my camera project but I'm locked in the first level. I don't have any WP camera and I don'nt know anyone in my area having it. I don't know wich is the better wp holder type. I don't want to waste time making projects already made.. I'm shure I'll not invent the better camera, fot that reason I ask help for the plateholder and the way wii insert on the camera, avoiding any light issues. Anyone of you could share some explicite photos of the plateholder and the rear element camera?

The camera will be used to shot wet plate collodion excusively. The larger size will be 40cm. It's the same for me if the camera will fold or not. I think it will be more complicate to make a foldable one.. Like I have to move a lot of chems, darkroom, glass, tripod It's the same if the camera will fold or not. Better foldable but, we'll see.




Any drawing, picture or link will be wellcome.


Thanks all for help.

Curt
9-Dec-2011, 03:19
Sycamore is used by Smallbone of Devizes cabinet makers in England. They are high quality high end custom woodworks.

cyrus
9-Dec-2011, 08:51
I think you shold consider different woods for different parts of the camera. They each come under different forms of use and potential damage.

E. von Hoegh
9-Dec-2011, 09:07
Pattern grade mahogany, if you can find it, naturally seasoned for a couple decades. Wear spots inlaid/bushed with lignum vitae.

Ed Kelsey
9-Dec-2011, 09:58
These guys have great wood

http://www.woodworkerssource.com

normanv
13-Dec-2011, 09:47
Pete, what is wrong with MDF? I'll tell you, it is heavy! I built this 10 x 8 camera using MDF as I had nothing else available and although it is perfectly functional it is very heavy. I had to build a special head for my tripod to carry the weight. The Symmar 360mm convertible lens didn't help much.

Robbie Shymanski
13-Dec-2011, 11:50
I have re-read this entire thread (even saw that I posted on way back). Most of the arguments relate to visual issues with wood. Some "workability" issues too. I guess the question comes down to what the home-builder wants. I have read very little here about issues of dimensional stability, relative hardness, and moisture resistance. Materials like mahogany were used for so long in camera manufacturing because it met all the design criteria above. And it was fairly inexpensive at the time. Now, not so much. 10 years ago when I was working in custom furniture, I watched the price of Honduran Mahogany triple and availability drop over the course of a few years. What replaced it were mostly "plantation" tropicals. Horrible wood that is all new growth. Horrible dimensional stability. Tears out like a bitch. If one wants good solid wood for small construction, look for guitar woods that are flat or quarter sawn. They will have the stability that would make for a precision instrument, like a camera. Also, old growth woods are where it's at. They are light and stronger due to the tight, resinous growth rings.. I would be weary of 'recycled' and 'reclaimed' woods, unless you have experience dealing with them. Consider the amount of time spent cleaning and re-milling the materials might not be worth your time. All that said, sheet materials are also well worth considering. I have made a number of architectural cameras out of MDF. It's just a box. I can make them attractive. But the issue with MDF is it needs heavy finishing just to make it "water resistant". And there are some strength issues. Aircraft or Baltic plys are also really good, especially if a decent joint can be worked. Personally, I love working with solid woods. I am finishing up an all mahogany 5x7. It started in ply, but the ADHD kicked in when I reminded myself I had a supply of milled stock. I wish it could all be out of T6061-T6 aluminum. Brass could be cool too. Anywho... All in all, choose materials that are idealized to your desires and ability. Are you going for something lasting and practical or something to be looked at rather than through. Rant over.

Steve Smith
13-Dec-2011, 14:58
I have read very little here about issues of dimensional stability

As just about everything on a view camera is adjustable, I don't think dimensional stability is very important. Nothing is going to move in the time between you setting up the camera and pressing the shutter.

Exceptions to this are the frame holding the ground glass, which needs to remain flat and not warp and the pieces forming the sliding bed which obviously doesn't want to twist and get jammed.

Most hard woods used for good quality furniture or musical instruments will be fine. In fact, musical instrument suppliers or even a local guitar or violin builder/repairer can be a good source of wood and advice.


Steve.

Robbie Shymanski
13-Dec-2011, 15:25
As just about everything on a view camera is adjustable, I don't think dimensional stability is very important. Nothing is going to move in the time between you setting up the camera and pressing the shutter.



That is an assumption that all view cameras are "adjustable". Personally, the cameras I build are one-trick-pony's, like architectural cameras. They have little to no "adjustments" and so if materials warp and twist out of square or parallel, the camera is useless. I guess is it not an issue if one has lax a concept of mechanical or visual precision.

E. von Hoegh
13-Dec-2011, 15:32
That is an assumption that all view cameras are "adjustable". Personally, the cameras I build are one-trick-pony's, like architectural cameras. They have little to no "adjustments" and so if materials warp and twist out of square or parallel, the camera is useless. I guess is it not an issue if one has lax a concept of mechanical or visual precision.

Precisely. In order for the camera to work as a machine should, the tolerances/clearances must not change. Wood is problematic in that it can be fairly stable in one dimension, and not so stable in others. Old growth naturally seasoned woods are necessary, and unfortunately very hard to find. Build a flatbed field camera with nice tight rails, and when the weather changes, those rails might either jam or become loose using easily available kiln dried wood. And how will it work in 50 years or so?

rdenney
14-Dec-2011, 09:55
Precisely. In order for the camera to work as a machine should, the tolerances/clearances must not change. Wood is problematic in that it can be fairly stable in one dimension, and not so stable in others. Old growth naturally seasoned woods are necessary, and unfortunately very hard to find. Build a flatbed field camera with nice tight rails, and when the weather changes, those rails might either jam or become loose using easily available kiln dried wood. And how will it work in 50 years or so?

Of course, the original thread involved a collaboration with a wood craftsman who was particularly interested in doing interesting wood work, including the chosen material. Not really my interest.

Buf if I was building a wood camera, I would use the stuff at Woodcraft that is made for tool beds. It's birch plywood built in very thin veneers with no voids, and sometimes with a phenolic resin coating. That's probably about as stable as it gets. It machines and works nicely, but it is plywood and will look like it on uncovered edges.

Rick "a form follows function kind of guy" Denney

Steven Scanner
23-Dec-2011, 02:34
I'd like to bring this thread back to life after 2+ years. After pages of exotic hardwood, the last pages mention birch plywood. Birch plywood is lightweight, strong and easy to cut and shape. Downside is, thin sheets bend and warp, but only parallel to the grain.
I've made an adult size bicycle a couple of years ago with layers of 3mm birch plywood. I also own a poplar plywood bicycle I've made myself. Both bikes don't warp at all. (no nails or screws, all is glued with construction glue)
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac95/stevenlangewouters/bike/DSCN6433.jpg
You can make the design in a way the "grain" of the plywood comes out. I've got some surplus plywood laying around from both bicycles. I'm going to make a LF scanner camera with this wood. As long as you can use the way the material works to your advantage, you can make anything with any type of material.