HP Designjet 130GP

[Martin Miksch]

Mylords, Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am to buy a printer, untill now I was focussed on Epsons, but now I found that HP has a very good offer with the Designjet130GP, but I didnt find any serious review. So please report your own experiences or show me a link to a review. Especially I am interested in the print quality, but also in the costs of the inks, I just found that tiny 69ml packages, compared to Epsons 220ml, and as the 130GP has some built in color calibration hardware, does this only work with a RIP?

Happy new year to all,
Martin

[Ted Harris]

Mark, the 130 is a very good printer and has been happily used for years by a small minority of printers. Among the reasons it has never enjoyed the popularity of the Epsons is that it uses dye based s opposed to pigment based inks. The dye inks are believed to be far less archival than pigment based inks.

Today, to me it seems to be behind the times and that there are other excellent choices in the same price range or less ... all pigment based printers. From HP the B9180 and from Canon the IPF9500, both for far less money. In the same price range (when you find rebates) and far more capable are the Canon IPF 5100 and the Epson 3800 and 4880. I strongly prefer the Canon 5100 because of its 12 ink system and no need to switch black inks.

The built in calibration is also available on the 9180 and the 5100. It works without RIP using the supplied software. You'll find a full review of the 9180 in View Camera ... I forget the date but early this year. A review of the 5100/100 will be in the January issue.

[Ed Richards]

I have a 130 sitting on my work bench, unused for the past 4 months. Driven with a RIP, it produces beautiful black and white and color prints on HP media, at much lower cost than Epsons - those ink carts may be small, but they go a long way. 18x24 prints knocked peoples eyes out.

The problem is the dye inks, or, more precisely, the perception that you are not a serious artist with dye ink. I got the message loud and clear from several reliable folks, both photographers and others, that I had to move to a pigment printer if I wanted to be taken seriously. So I bought an Epson 3800. Does not make as large a print, but with Harman Gloss it makes a print as nice as the HP, but at more than 2x the cost per print. It will last a long time, however, and I admit that dye ink does fade, esp. if your print is hung in less than desirable circumstances.

So, I have the printer and several boxes and rolls of media, and am not sure what to do with them. You are not close to Baton Rouge are you? I could make you a great deal.:-)

[IanMazursky]

I had the 130NR for 2-3 months. It was a horrible printer.
HP replaced the whole unit 4 times and the feed assembly 3 times.
IDK if they fixed the scratching and creasing issues.

The ink went fast but with the rip, i was able to get perfect prints. Especially for SWOP certified proofing. I was able to make my investment back in the 2 months then i sold it back to my vendor who offloaded it on someone else. I assume.

I would purchase an HP Z3100 24". I have the 44". Its a much better printer.
If you are going to get the 130, I think i still have the rip somewhere.

[Martin Miksch]

Thanks for this answers full of knowledge,
I am an european resident, so it will be difficult to deal with Ed.
Its nice here in good old Europe, but the prices for hardware are a shame, I just looked, a 130GP is priced in USA about 2000.- USD, here 3500.- USD. The Z3100 24" is here 7300.- USD, this is outside of my budget in the moment.

What I dont know about that fading issue, it comes from UV light, is it possible to laminate something to get protection?

Thanks and Kind Regards and a New Year full of creativity and fine light to all of you.

Martin

Edit: Ian, I sent you a PM ref .the RIP

[Ed Richards]

Seems that the Euro appreciation should be working for you. How much of the difference is VAT?

[Martin Miksch]

VAT is 20%, the only cheap things here around are cell phones.

A dude of my has a print shop with some large plotters, he told me he thinks that the HP printers work with pigment ink also, there are no problems with the heads. Have you ever heard about that?

Regards

Martin

Tomorrow I open my little photoshop with a little studio.^^

[Ted Harris]

Check HP's website but I don't believe that is correct. Again, take a look at the Canon's and the HP B9180. If the 130 is going to cost you 2000 you should see if you can find a Canon 5000 (or even an 8000) as thye have been recently discontinued with attractive markdowns. Still great printers.

[Martin Miksch]

In Europe there are no markdowns and rebates or very selden and the 130GP is here 3500 USD.^^

Regards
Martin

I have just looked at your website, you are the Master of handheld in the streets.

[Gordon Moat]

I was sharing one for a little while, and very impressed by the print quality . . . and generally I despise and look down upon all inkjet prints. Since my share was paper and ink supplies, I can state that per print cost is quite reasonable. Mostly I was using it for proofing larger commercial jobs, though I did a few short run posters for musicians on it. There is a mis-conception (dis-information?) that you must use HP papers; this is simply not true, though there are some good HP papers available. I would recommend individual sheets over rolls, though if you buy a roll you can cut sheets to any length you want; I was not impressed by the roll feed set-up.

My personal opinion is that unless you are placing a print or fade guarantee on your images, then making claims of archival is purely marketing (might catch some flack for that statement). If you (rhetorical) are selling fine art images, then why are they not chemically producing prints (to lower your cost?) . . . . . . Anyway, that is a separate issue. Prints can be face mounted to Diasec or similar (Lucite?), or sandwiched in other clear substrates, so you have options with how to mount prints.

Just on operating costs, you could nearly have two of these running for less than the cost of a similar width Epson. I would suggest getting the HP service agreement, if you are using this to run a business. The faster turn-around, in the event you need service, is worth the extra expense, even though it appears that the 130 DesignJet series has been very reliable compared to many printers on the market.

I would skip on the HP RIP, if they even still offer than in the EU. The EFI Designer RIP is a nice alternative, and I found it easy to operate.

You can read a comparison at the Spencer Labs (http://www.spencerlab.com/publications/) website. They tested one of these against a few contemporaries when the 130 series came out. The DesignJet 90 is very similar, with a few carriage/construction improvements, and a slightly smaller width capability; you might consider looking into that series too.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[Ted Harris]

I'm with Gordon on the EFI RIP, especially with HP printers.

[Martin Miksch]

Took a long time, but now I got a new Canon 6100, very nice and fast engine.^^
Thanks to you I didnt buy a HP.
Regards
Martin

[SAShruby]

Does exist a high quality printer which has a driver specializing in BW printing? Meaning you can buy special inks for BW, substiture the colour ones and print it in High quality black?

Maybe stupid question.

[dwhistance]

Peter, if you want to use third party inksets for B&W then most of the recent large format Epsons (up to the 3800/4880/7880/9880 which sadly cannot) and many of the Epson desktop machines can use them. Have a look at Jon Cone's, MIS or Media Street websites for a variety of inks. I am not aware of any equivalent inksets for either the Canon or HP printers.

David Whistance

[dwhistance]

Sorry, I forgot to add a comment on drivers. Both QuadTone RIP and Bowhaus IJC/OPM are good relatively cheap B&W specific RIPS. If you want a better, but much more expensive RIP then try StudioPrint (which does get the best out of the Cone inks). Alternatively some of the MIS inks are designed to use the standard Epson drivers.

David Whistance

[SAShruby]

Well, does it mean that average printer with special inks would do the same as high quality printer?

What I'm trying to say is that Black is black, white is white, but grey ink makes better grey because splashes grey color with more ink than black makes grey (combination of Black and white dots), or, for instance PT/PD prints would have yellowish brownish inks and their combination, which is better than combination of cyan magenta and yellow.

Do I make sense here?

Peter.

[SAShruby]

Well, looks like everyone is scratching head... In my opinion it could work quite well...

[Ted Harris]

Martin, I think you made a good decision. It is the fastest of the 24" printers and gives you great output. I consider the HP z3100ps GP to be the gold standard of inkjet printers dedicated to photography but it has a lot of features that many don't need and it costs a hefty amount more than the Canon 6100. One hint, be sure to do your printing with the Canon Export Driver so you can take advantage of Canon's 16 bit printing capability.

[dwhistance]

Peter, I think you really need to start a new thread if you want lots of input on this subject as the Designjet 130 isn't really a good B&W printer and cannot take any third party B&W inks.

I do agree with your comments on the use of grey inks as do most inkjet users nowadays, hence the inclusion of multiple greys in the latest generation of printers from all of the big manufacturers.

How many greys you need is another question and one that would no doubt cause considerable debate. The OEM inksets generally have two now (plus a black) and there is no doubt that they can produce excellent B&W prints. Jon Cone uses six greys plus black for his K7 inksets. Used properly, with the right image, these can produce even better B&W prints, however they are more limited than the OEM inks as they are only useable on matte papers at the moment. Whether the additional greys are worthwhile only you can answer. It depends to a large extent on your images and personal style. Read through some of Bruce Watson's posts as he is a long term user of the Cone inks.

David Whistance

PS - I should probably have said that I use both the Epson K3 inks in a 3800 and a 9800 and the Cone inks in several 4000's. I also have smaller printers with the MIS and Mediastreet inks.

[Martin Miksch]

@Ted
Thanks for the hint, I will try my best;
its my first printer this size and I got it yesterday and untill now I am proud that I managed to assemble it, I made some test prints from Photoshop.
It came together with a RIP named PosterJet, german software, so maybe they dont sell it in the USA, I yet didnt bring it to work, I dont have internet access in the shop and PosterJet seems to need to load profiles etc. from the PosterJet server. Thats life here in North-West Balcan, I ordered my DSL end ot December and maybe next week the man from the post-office will come.
Have a nice weekend
Regards
Martin

[Ted Harris]

PosterJet, IIRC is an entirely separate software program designed to support those who use the wide format printers for reproducing CAD drawings, renderings, etc. as opposed to photos. You will also have al the software you need for photos. If it isn't obvious, yell and I can walk you through it and/or point you to the right software to download from the Canon Europe site. If you have followed the step-by-step instructions then you should find the Canon driver as follows:

When you are ready to print from Photoshop .....

1) Go to the file menu and in the drop down menu go down to Export

2) At the Export menu one of your choices will be "Canon Export Driver" select that and print from there.

Happy printing

[Martin Miksch]

Ted, thanks for your kindness;
tomorrow I will try to bring my old drumscanner to life, got the last piece now, hope it will work.
Untill now I just printed files from R1 and D300, if the drum runs, I can scan my 5x7 (exactly 13x18) and my RB pics and than I am kinda King of the road.^^
Untill now I ordered glossy photo paper 240g, which seems very satisfieing and fine art embossed, which doesnt seem to be that good, or maybe I just use it in the wrong way, perhaps it works better with very reduced color intensity, I hope you can give me some hints about papers.
Thanks and Kind Regards
Martin

[RPHOTOGRAPHER]

I have a question..what is RIP ????? dont laugh I just dont know..
Thanks
Ralph

[Gordon Moat]

Raster Image Processor. Basically, information is in PostScript language, which works like points and vector coordinated. That information is then converted to raster, basically creating a bitmap. I'm really simplifying this, since there is also colour information stored in PostScript, and a few other details.

The advantages are better control over output, faster image processing and printing (though that depends upon the printer), and (sometimes) ink savings. You would need to understand and work in CMYK to take advantage of this; which I think is easy, but some people struggle with this workflow.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)