Lens for Crown Graphic

[ghs421]

Hello, I am new to LF and looking for a little help. I have settled on the Crown Graphic as my first 4x5. However, I am still confused on getting a usable lens for it(I am ordering from KEH.com). Despite doing quite a bit of reading, I am still slightly confused about lens boards, sizes, coverage etc. Basically, without wasting too much of your time, could someone give me a brief rundown on lens boards etc. in relation to the Crown Graphic? Also could someone lead to me to the cheapest possible lens to start with?(preferably from this list http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductList.aspx?Mode=&item=0&ActivateTOC2=&ID=58&BC=LF&BCC=7&CC=6&CCC=2&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=

I appreciate everyone's help and hope this is in the right section and everything. Thanks.

[David Karp]

I wrote this a while back: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses-primer

It should help you with coverage, etc. It also discusses lensboards and even shows a Crown with a lensboard and lens on it.

Normal lenses range from 135mm to 165mm or so. Your choice depends on your subject matter and how you see.

You will want to choose your predrilled lensboard after you choose your lens. The shutter size determines the hole size in the lensboard. Here is a table showing the various hole sizes for different shutters: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lensboard_hole_sizes.html. KEH describes their stuff by the hole size in mm.

You won't get too much help from KEH sales people with LF stuff unless you are lucky enough to get one who uses this stuff. Another alternative is Jim Andracki at Midwest Photo Exchange (mpex.com). He can help you make a good choice. MPEX has lots of used lenses. They also have new lensboards for Crown Graphics in stock. I have purchased from both. I prefer MPEX when I have a choice.

[BrianShaw]

There are a number of different options for you to consider. On a press-type camera one option is going with the type of lens originally provided. They are fairly plentiful on ebay and can be found at affordable prices.

Here is one of the original lenses:

Ebay item number: 150198117402; http://cgi.ebay.com/Graflex-Optar-135mm-f4-7-4x5-Lens_W0QQitemZ150198117402QQihZ005QQcategoryZ30076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and this is the type of lensboard you'll need (with the correct size hole):

Ebay item number: Item number: 130185545989; http://cgi.ebay.com/Graflex-lens-board_W0QQitemZ130185545989QQihZ003QQcategoryZ29980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is not an endorsement of either auction, but simply to give you a picture of what you might consider. Check www.graflex.org to find out more about your new camera and the other types of lenses you could also consider.

[ghs421]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this mean I can use any lens regardless of shutter and hole size on a crown? And I'm guessing it is not too difficult (or different) to mount a LF lens? And I have ordered from MPEX before, but did not know they carried LF. Thanks for the reference.

EDIT: Your article covered some of what I just asked. Thanks!

[David Karp]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this mean I can use any lens regardless of shutter and hole size on a crown? And I'm guessing it is not too difficult (or different) to mount a LF lens?

You are welcome.

1. Sort of. Great big heavy lenses with big shutters might be a bit big for those small boards. It might make the camera pretty darn front heavy. Otherwise, you can pick any lens with a shutter that will fit on the board. I think MPEX has undrilled boards, and boards with holes for No. 0 and No. 1 shutters. I have used lenses from 75mm to 300mm in my Crown.

2. Not difficult at all. You need a good spanner wrench or lens wrench (both shown in the article). Just be careful.

[Frank Petronio]

You really should just get a clean Crown Graphic top rangefinder model with a late model Schneider Xenar 135/4.7 lens "ready to go". Buy a lens for a Crown separately is going to be a lot more expensive and you won't be able to take advantage of being able to use the rangefinder without setting it up (for the older side mounted rangefinders) or finding a hard to find "cam" (for the later top mounted rangefinders).

The top mounted rangefinder Crowns with Xenar lenses were the last models made, so they will most likely be in better condition than the side mounted rangefinder/Ektar lens versions....

Since you can find clean late model Crowns with matching Xenars for between $250 to $500... believe me you will have a lot less headaches and hassles than trying to match stuff up and adjust the rangefinder for a different lens.

Later on you always buy longer or shorter lenses, mess around with the rangefinder, etc. but right now keep it simple and start shooting sooner than later. Cameras with matched lenses are just going to be so much easier all around...

[ghs421]

I did see a Crown "ready to go" in the classifieds which I may take advantage of. In regards to the rangefinder, I don't know how much I'd use it compared to the ground glass. Also, the crown can accept rb67 roll film backs right? The RB67 is one of my current systems, so that is a nice advantage.

[Oren Grad]

Also, the crown can accept rb67 roll film backs right? The RB67 is one of my current systems, so that is a nice advantage.

No, a 4x5 Crown can't accept RB roll backs, at least not without some sort of adapter from 4x5 to 2x3 Graflok fittings. A 2x3 Graphic with a Graflok back can, though.

[Gene McCluney]

You can "use" lenses from 65mm to 210mm on your Crown Graphic with the bellows length it has. The 65mm would require you to drop the bed to keep it out of the photo. I have used lenses mounted in the big Copal 3 shutters, if the rear element is not too big to go thru the opening in the camera. New lensboards are readily available from MPEX, and are offered in blank, and pre-drilled for the smaller shutter sizes.

Oh, you can use "longer" lenses if they are "telephoto" in design, which means they will focus with less bellows than conventional lenses. I have successfully used a 500mm Komura telephoto in Copal 3 on my Graphic.

[venchka]

The Crown in the For Sale area looks like a decent package. The 127mm Ektar lens is very nice. I like mine a lot. You also get a Polaroid back. You could order some Polaroid Type 55 film and be taking pictures when the camera arrives. When you get comfortable with the camera, start looking for another lens, maybe longer like a 203mm Ektar?

[Dan Schwartz]

I buy, refurbish and sell 4x5 Crown & Speed Graphics (I don't have any listed at this moment, though), and can give you a few tips.

First off, later models came with the 127mm Ektar or 135mm Optar lenses. Any Ektar lens will be corrected for color; but the Optars do OK. You'll pay at least $100 extra for the Schneider Xenar; but the difference isn't that great from the Optar -- But it's definitely there.

The Xenar's came from the Crown Graphic Special, which was a top rangefinder (1955 & up) model.

Second, you can get great info over at Graflex.Org (http://www.Graflex.org), including the valuable Not the Serial number book list ...but (http://www.graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?p=25895) (bookmark that page!)

Third, The top rangefinder is controversial: Yes, you need cams; but because it is mounted closer to the back it's easier to use than a side-mounted Kalart, unless the Kalart has an extension tube on it. Also, the top RF has a built-in focus spot, which is an option on the Kalart.

Fourth, I've found that every Crown & Speed that has the Kalart rangefinders needs a new beam splitter, while the top RF's are almost always OK.

Fifth, if you have to buy a lens board, get the machined ones from S.K. Grimes for $40, which are hogged out of a solid piece of aluminum, and are MUCH better than the original stamped steel lens boards. Plus, they are only $40.

Sixth, many of the shutters from Speed & Crown Graphics are a bit sticky: Sometimes they just need exercising; sometimes they need to go out for a CLA (cleaning, lubrication & adjustment.

Seventh, because Speed Graphic cameras have a second, focal plane shutter, they can also use barrel lenses, such as you find in an enlarger, or in the David Burnett Combo (http://users.snip.net/~joe/AeroEktar/default.htm). (DISCLAIMER: I have two more in production: One is sold, one is built on speculation.)

Eighth, if you get a Crown, you can use a 90mm lens for wide angle without dropping the bed & raising the front standard, while the Speed needs you to do this.

Good Luck!


I wrote this a while back: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses-primer

It should help you with coverage, etc. It also discusses lensboards and even shows a Crown with a lensboard and lens on it.

Normal lenses range from 135mm to 165mm or so. Your choice depends on your subject matter and how you see.

You will want to choose your predrilled lensboard after you choose your lens. The shutter size determines the hole size in the lensboard. Here is a table showing the various hole sizes for different shutters: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lensboard_hole_sizes.html. KEH describes their stuff by the hole size in mm.

You won't get too much help from KEH sales people with LF stuff unless you are lucky enough to get one who uses this stuff. Another alternative is Jim Andracki at Midwest Photo Exchange (mpex.com). He can help you make a good choice. MPEX has lots of used lenses. They also have new lensboards for Crown Graphics in stock. I have purchased from both. I prefer MPEX when I have a choice.

[Dan Fromm]

You can "use" lenses from 65mm to 210mm on your Crown Graphic with the bellows length it has. Nonsense. The longest original issue lens for the 4x5 Crown was the 15" (380 mm) f/5.6 TeleRaptar/TeleOptar. And modern wide angle lenses have longer flange-to-film distances than ancient ones. The 4x5 Crown's minimum flange-to-film distance is 52.4 mm. The camera can take many more lenses than you suggested.

[Gene McCluney]

Nonsense. The longest original issue lens for the 4x5 Crown was the 15" (380 mm) f/5.6 TeleRaptar/TeleOptar. And modern wide angle lenses have longer flange-to-film distances than ancient ones. The 4x5 Crown's minimum flange-to-film distance is 52.4 mm. The camera can take many more lenses than you suggested.

I did mention that you can use "telephoto" lenses longer than 210mm.

[Joseph O'Neil]

Yes - "telephoto" lenses such as the Teleraptar 15" do fit just fine. I actually have one of those beasts. However, my 270mm G-claron does not fit - not enough belows or run or whatever you call it.

As for a "best" lens, look for a decent 135mm, IMO. A 150mm would be my second choice, and 210mm my third choice.

I personally like using 135mm lenses, and my apo-sironar in that size sees use on my Crown, Tachihara, Zone V1 and my monorail. As for 150mm and 210mm, those are very common sizes, and I find that you often find some very good used lenses in those sizes at very good prices, so if something good used comes up at the 150mm range, go for it.

As far as wide angle goes. I used both Wollensak 90mm and "plain" 90mm angulons, and you cant get some very decent used lenses in these price ranges. However, at 90mm with tither of these lenses, movements are IMO tight and problematic on the Crown Graphic, even simple front rise can be an issue. On the other hand, they are super light for backpacking, and small enough you can fold up and close the camera with one of those lenses still attached/mounted.

For movement & flexability on the Crown Graphic, for wide angle, the 105mm Fujinon CMW (hard to find) is a fine choice, or a 90mm F8 Super Angluon or one of it's clones such as the Caltars or the version made by Ilex. But they are heaver and larger and thus need to be removed before the camera fold up.

good luck
joe

[buze]

Hmm Any Lens since the 19th century is corrected for color. it's not like Newton was hard to read, and a non-color corrected lens will have so dreadful performance as to be completely unusable, even on B&W film, even ortho.
The confusion probably comes from the legend that says that lens coating is needed for color. It's not.

The 135mm f4.7 Optar has no reason to be badmouthed; it has a little bit more coverage than the 127 Ektar, and it's PLENTY sharp. I shot it 'mounted' on my DSLR some time ago, and it resolves details of one pixel, like most modern lens.

On Flickr:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/96/242278625_daeb86f1f5_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/buze/242278625/)