Advice wanted from FP4 & Jobo users.

[Keith Tapscott.]

I normally process my 35mm and 120 films in a Paterson tank with intermittent agitation. I have just bought my first box of 8x10 B&W film which is Ilford FP4 Plus.
It would probably be more convenient to process two sheets at a time in my Jobo 2800series tank which is designed for photographic papers rather than film sheets.
My main developer is D-76 which I use diluted 1+1 for most films, if you process FP4 Plus sheet-film in D-76 or ID-11, which time, temperature and rotation speed (CPA2) do you find gives good consistent results, which I can use as a starting point?Any help with method/technique, e.g; whether to pre-rinse or not would be appreciated.
I have been shooting B&W for years, but 8x10 film processing is new to me.

Thanks,

Keith.

[Ole Tjugen]

I develop my 8x10" films the same way, and just follow the same times I would use for roll films (I use Ilfotec-HC and not D-76, but I would still do the same). I always use a prewash - I have no idea about the timing, I just put on the prewash, then mix and measure the developer. When that is done I dump the wash and pour in the developer. :)

[Keith Tapscott.]

I develop my 8x10" films the same way, and just follow the same times I would use for roll films (I use Ilfotec-HC and not D-76, but I would still do the same). I always use a prewash - I have no idea about the timing, I just put on the prewash, then mix and measure the developer. When that is done I dump the wash and pour in the developer. :)Thanks for replying Ole, Ilford advise not to use a pre-rinse while Jobo recommend it which is why I asked about this part of the processing stage. Perhaps it would be best for me to start with the times on the film-sheet box or my own time for 35mm/120 when using Paterson tanks.

Cheers,

Keith.

[Ralph Barker]

Note that Ilford's advice that a pre-wash isn't necessary relates to roll films and sheets in tanks or trays. They have acknowledged that a pre-wash is helpful, or even necessary, for Jobo processing.

[Keith Tapscott.]

Note that Ilford's advice that a pre-wash isn't necessary relates to roll films and sheets in tanks or trays. They have acknowledged that a pre-wash is helpful, or even necessary, for Jobo processing.
Ralph, thanks for that information. I read in the `Kodak Book Of Large-Format Photography` that a pre-soak for 30 seconds can help to prevent film sheets from sticking to one another when tray processing. It was not clear in the Ilford technical data whether this only applied to small and large tank processing and not rotary processors.:confused:

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I use FP4+ in 4X5 and 5X7 and both get developed in a Jobo 3010 in either Rodinal or DDX (I have also used D-76 1+1 as well). I always presoak for 5 minutes with the drum rotating. I believe Jobo recommends a pre-soak while Ilford doesn't. I have never had a problem with the pre-soak.

Many people recommed taking the recommended tray times and reducing it by 20% to begin with due to the constant agitation in the Jobo. But you should really test to make sure or for the first few times, expose two sheets of the same image and develop one at the recommended time and the other at the 20% reduced time. Then compare.

[Mick Fagan]

Keith, today I developed 4 sheets of FP4+ 4x5" in my Jobo CPE2.

I use D76 1+1 at 20.4C

I use the slow speed for the CPE2, which is the very early model.

I use the bottom small section of the 2840 print drum for holding one reel, with this I can do 6 sheets but only do 4 for consistency. This drum section in another guise is called the test drum for prints and a single 4x5 film drum in another guise.

I never use a pre-wet.

My times are 10' 45", with this I get very good negatives to print on a DeVere 504 diffused colour head. I could process for another 1/2 a stop which usually lowers the paper grade by about 1 whole unit. My aim is grade 3 on my head. With a soft light situation I'm using up to grade 3 3/4, with harder light I'm running about grade 1 3/4 to grade 2 1/2 depending.

With most reasonable subjects I'm printing around grade 3 to 3 1/4.

Today the negs were shot in a very soft light and I used grade 4. This gave me the bump for the highlights, yet I was able to retain very good shadow detail in the print.

I realise it is not 8x10 but it is reasonably close. Many years ago developed quite a few 8x10 E6 sheets in my own 2840 print drum, as well as some Duratrans. I found that using a larger amount of solution than required, gave me more consistency.

Mick.

[Mick Fagan]

Keith, just thought of this.

I use 300ml of solution at 1+1 to get 4 sheets of film developed, this equates to 1 sheet of 8x10.

Mick.

[Keith Tapscott.]

Keith, today I developed 4 sheets of FP4+ 4x5" in my Jobo CPE2.
I use D76 1+1 at 20.4C
I use the slow speed for the CPE2, which is the very early model.
I use the bottom small section of the 2840 print drum for holding one reel, with this I can do 6 sheets but only do 4 for consistency. This drum section in another guise is called the test drum for prints and a single 4x5 film drum in another guise.

I never use a pre-wet.
My times are 10' 45", with this I get very good negatives to print on a DeVere 504 diffused colour head. I could process for another 1/2 a stop which usually lowers the paper grade by about 1 whole unit. My aim is grade 3 on my head. With a soft light situation I'm using up to grade 3 3/4, with harder light I'm running about grade 1 3/4 to grade 2 1/2 depending.

With most reasonable subjects I'm printing around grade 3 to 3 1/4.

Today the negs were shot in a very soft light and I used grade 4. This gave me the bump for the highlights, yet I was able to retain very good shadow detail in the print.

I realise it is not 8x10 but it is reasonably close. Many years ago developed quite a few 8x10 E6 sheets in my own 2840 print drum, as well as some Duratrans. I found that using a larger amount of solution than required, gave me more consistency.

Mick.
I will try your suggestion without a pre-rinse. I am getting similar results to you in terms of contrast with my 35mm and 120 films with my Durst Modular 70 with VC module. It will be contact prints only for the 8x10 film sheets though, thanks Mick.

Keith.

[Scott Kathe]

I just did my first 4x5 FP4+ in a Jobo 3010 with a 5 minute pre-rinse with water (500ml) on a Beseler non reversing base. The water that came out was so dark I was concerned that there was some kind of residue in the drum. Then 9 minutes in D76 diluted 1:1 (500ml:500ml), turned the drum around every minute. Two minutes in water (500ml) to stop. Five minutes in Kodak Rapid Fix (1 liter). Two minutes in water (500ml). Two minutes in Permawash (500ml). Two minutes in water (500ml) then into a Gravity Works film washer for 15 minutes. PhotoFlo then hung up to dry. Seemed to work well but my film speed test in tray rated FP4+ at 100 so that is how I shot the film. WAAAY to much contrast when processed in the Jobo. Time for another film speed test.

Supposedly Ilford film emulsion contains a wetting agent so you don't have to pre-rinse. If you do not pre-rinse you should be fine, if you do not pre-rinse long enough you may get uneven development because some but not all of the wetting agent is removed. If you pre-rinse the recommended time is 5 minutes. All this is hearsay gleaned from the web so take it for what it's worth.

I'll do my film speed test but what speed do people get with FP4+ processed in a Jobo drum with D76 1:1?

Scott

[Vaughn]

Scott, the darkness you saw was just the anti-halation layer rinsing off the FP4+. It is suppose to do that.

I have found using a non-hardening fix in the Jobo 3005 (8x10's) has helped considerably in getting rid of some staining/salts on the non-emulsion side of the negative.

Vaughn

[Scott Kathe]

Scott, the darkness you saw was just the anti-halation layer rinsing off the FP4+. It is suppose to do that.

I have found using a non-hardening fix in the Jobo 3005 (8x10's) has helped considerably in getting rid of some staining/salts on the non-emulsion side of the negative.

Vaughn

I figured it was the anti-halation layer but I've never seen it quite like that and my negatives always had this odd color cast too them, now they are crystal clear. I don't use the hardener that comes with my Rapid Fix.

Scott

[Marko]

FP4+ does have much darker anti-halation layer than, say, Tri-X. I presoak all films for three minutes and change water at every minute. With Ilford, the first water out is very dark, almost black and purplish in color, the second one is sort of dark pink and the third (last) is almost clear. The first rinse out of Tri-X is much less dark then with Ilford but it does have a bit of foam to it. The second is already almost clear.

I develop Ilford films in either Rodinal (small tank with inversion) or DD-X (Expert drum on a Beseler motor base) and they come out just fine. With Rodinal, the base is very clear, showing very low fog. For Tri-X, I use D76 1:1 in HP Combi tank or in Expert Drum, no problems either way.

Besides washing out the anti-halation layer, presoaking should also allow faster and more even developer absorption and distribution due to reducing the surface tension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_tension), among other factors.

[Paul Metcalf]

Keith - a couple of other things to keep in mind using sheet film in Jobo's print drums:
- you'll need to wash the film out of the tank after you've finished the final rinsing in the drum (do the full rinsing in the drum, it's necessary to clean out the chemical path assuming you're using a lift, otherwise it's not necessary). Washing outside of the drum will rinse the back of the film that's against the drum. You might see some anti-halation coating still on the film when you remove from drum, but washing it outside fo the drum will remove it.
- be careful when doing more than one sheet, as they can shift during the intial chemical insertion (or water if doing a pre-rinse) and one sheet might end up on top of the other, which will essentially ruin the bottom sheet (you'll get partially developed and fixed areas). I do have experince in this. There are clips available to hold the film in place (actually, to hold the prints in place as these are print drums) but I don't think Jobo has them anymore. I think Ole is the only one that has these, and he's not giving any up! You can get creative and make some. My process is to pour in the pre-rinse water very (very very) slowly. Some of the water filters behind the film and helps "glue" it to the drum surface. Another option is to do this, then in darkness remove the drum from the processor, open the lid and careful feel that none of the sheets have moved. If they have, you can at least recover these prior to any chemicals being introduced. If you can figure out to load the drum when it's damp, that also helps keep the film in place, but I can only do that with 5x7 sized film, not 8x10 as the film won't slide in the tube.-
- oh, and unless completely obvious, the emulsion faces inward in the tank.

Good luck.