new T-Max

[Joseph O'Neil]

Who, if anyone, is stocking the new T-max in 4x5 yet? I am low on film and have to order some more soon, and would like to try out the new T-max, but around here in Canada, so far, nobody has it. I have been phoning and asking, but no luck so far.

You know what the really sad thing is, for me? I live maybe a 4 hour drive from Rochester, NY, but we are likely the last people on planet earth to see anything new from Kodak. You'll likely see this film in Shanghai or Rome or Sao Paulo long before it ever reaches Canada. Seriously, I'm not being facetious here, although I wish I was. :(

joe

[Walter Calahan]

Sorry grumpy & miserable.

Perhaps Kodak is mixed up in the border wars over soft lumber?

There are large and good camera stores in Canada from whom you can order on-line. Toronto has nothing? Amazing. Canada is the USA's largest trading partner. You'd think for all the oil we get from the north, a few sheets of T-Max can't be exchanged?

I have no idea if ordering from Badger Graphics, B&H, or Calumet here in the US would pose a shipping / tariff problem.

Good luck.

[keith english]

I recently emailed BandH and asked if they had the newest Tmax 400(4x5 50 sheet). They assured me they did since they "sell out every 2 weeks" I don't think what I received was the new stuff. Doesn't it have "now the sharpest 400 speed film" or new improved or something tell-tale on the box?

[Michael Kadillak]

I recently emailed BandH and asked if they had the newest Tmax 400(4x5 50 sheet). They assured me they did since they "sell out every 2 weeks" I don't think what I received was the new stuff. Doesn't it have "now the sharpest 400 speed film" or new improved or something tell-tale on the box?

The new and improved TMY sheet film is not in the business mix yet but should be very soon. We are waiting on samples to test for a future VC article. There is packaging differentiation that easily identifies the new emulsion. In this regard you can't blame B&H for wanting to clear their inventories of the older emulsion. I ordered 3 50 sheet boxes of the old TMY in 8x10 just because I maintain a consistent inventory in my freezer and I find the "old" emulsion as appealing as the new one as I find they are both fabulous sheet films.

Cheers!

[Joseph O'Neil]

There are large and good camera stores in Canada from whom you can order on-line. Toronto has nothing? Amazing.

-snip-

Well here goes..
- 8 Elm Camera, who normally stock all sorts of 4x5 and other sheet films, including papers and chemistry, have nada, and are not sure when (maybe in the new year);
- Rob at Big Camera Workshops stocks Ilford, not Kodak;
- Harrys Pro Shop is all hardware, never any film;
- Henry's and Visteck I've pretty much given up on. If you want to talk mega pixels and memory cards, they are both great places to call and get expert advice, but the moment you mention film, argh......
- and for all the rest of the major camera stores on both Queen street and Younge Street, when i was there in the big old TO this past May, I went to many of these places, and it's all digital, digital and digital.

Toronto may act like it's the centre of the known universe, but it' got a ways to go. :)

As for my favourite local camera store, Reade's, who do stock hard to find Kentmere papers (even the occasional box of fibre based stuff too! :eek: ), they've not had any luck at all either.

Got a trip to the Keys I hope to be going on in early February, looks like I'll be shooting HP5. :)

[Dave Aharonian]

Hi Joseph,

Out here on the west coast its no better. I buy all my Ilford 5x7 film from Rob Skeoch, but trying to find any tmax400 in 8x10 is a pain in the arse. The Camera Store in Calgary had a few boxes in stock last time I checked. I bought one and the y had about 5 left. They ship quickly and there's no sales tax!

[Michael Graves]

Actually, Fairfax is the center of the universe. Unfortunately, all the cool stuff is out on the edges. Here in the center, it's basically a vacuum. I have to order everything from afar. I can't buy any sheet film locally, although there is still one store that carries 120 roll film.

[Colin Corneau]

Well, consider where I live and then ask if you're really so hard done by. :D

I can only add that once you find a place that comes through for you for analog supplies, SUPPORT THEM, and let them know you appreciate it. You'd be surprised how far one letter to a manager can go.

[Joseph O'Neil]

Well to add some more humour to the situation, on the news yesterday on TV there was a report that Toronto is suffering a shortage of snow shovels.

Not even the end of December, and the largest city in Canada is running out of snow shovels - a Pythonequse moment if there ever was one. So I suppose worry about sheet film in Toronto is pretty low on the food chain. :)

[vinny]

They're going to stop making snow shovels soon because snow can be removed in photoshop. Stock up while you can!

[Ron Bose]

Joseph,
I've switched to Ilford for a couple of reasons:

1) Ilford is committed to making film and serve it's customers. Kodak ? Well, who knows ?

2) Rob Skeoch is a ten minute drive away from my home.

Ron

[Michael Kadillak]

Joseph,
I've switched to Ilford for a couple of reasons:

1) Ilford is committed to making film and serve it's customers. Kodak ? Well, who knows ?

2) Rob Skeoch is a ten minute drive away from my home.

Ron

On point #1, the fact is that both companies manufacture film. Do we really know for a fact that this is a Kodak problem or just a local distribution/logistics issue?

It is not that far a drive from Toronto to Buffalo or Rochester. With the drop in the value of the US dollar I would make a sheet film run and be done with it.

I use the best film made irrespctive of the manufacturer and will proactively do what needs to be done to acquire it. In a 400 speed film, there is absolutely NO question that Kodak took a major leap ahead of Ilford with their new and improved T Max 400. The grains structure and the tonalities are to die for. I have used just about every sheet film we can get our hands on in the last five years and I have never been so excited about a film as I am at this juncture after shooting some sample rolls. Instead of milking a product line till its dying day Kodak make an investment in R&D to actually kick it up several notches and for that they should be applauded, not jammed on. We can do better than this.

Where there is a will, there is always a way.

[Joseph O'Neil]

It is not that far a drive from Toronto to Buffalo or Rochester. With the drop in the value of the US dollar I would make a sheet film run and be done with it.

-snip-
Maybe a bit OT, but you would not beleive how many times I make a "run to the USA" for this or that, not just film. One issue IMO not well covered in the topic of cross boarder shopping is simple availability of a product outside "normal" items. If want to compare prices on an I-pod, you can get good deals up here, but anything out of the ordinary - prepare to have fun. For example, I take size 12 shoes/boots, but a triple E or even an F width. Sometiems I cannot even find that size here, I buy a size 13 to fit, which it never does properly. I have a much easier time finding not only my size, but a selection in that size in the USA. Just the tip of the iceberg.

Anyhow, back to film, is anybody for sure going to be carrying the new T-Max in early January? Reason I ask is I hope to be heading down the I 75 to Florida first week of February, and I pick up my buddy in Ohio on the way. Would be real easy to have some film mail ordered to his place - assuming i knew it would be there in time.

I'll end up ordering the new T-max either way, sooner or later, but time is running out for me to get some kind of film in before my trip. Don't want to end up at the end of a 1,500 mile drive without a good supply of film. :eek:

joe

[Mark Sampson]

It's unlikely that any retailer, Canada or USA, is going to offer the 'new' version of any sensitized material until all the 'old' version has been sold. In any case, there's no magic bullet. New TMY won't make your pictures good, and old TMY won't make them bad. Just buy some film and go shoot. (I'd say buy TMY, but then they make it in my hometown.)

[Michael Kadillak]

It's unlikely that any retailer, Canada or USA, is going to offer the 'new' version of any sensitized material until all the 'old' version has been sold. In any case, there's no magic bullet. New TMY won't make your pictures good, and old TMY won't make them bad. Just buy some film and go shoot. (I'd say buy TMY, but then they make it in my hometown.)

Talking to several retailers and regular purchasers of TMY sheet film it appeared that inventory was moving quite briskly prior to the announcement of the improvements to the emulsion. It is my understanding that the preliminary results of the new TMY work were so over the top that Kodak was able to make a call to simply go for it. Commensurate with this decision and well in advance of the formal announcement to the public, production of the old TMY was quietly shut down to allow existing inventory to cycle through the retail channels. If Kodak were not intently listening to the LF/ULF community when we requested of them to please leave out the UV coating on their sheet film for the benefit of anyone printing with a UV light source, the logistics of film production would be greatly simplified as there would only need to be one general formulation for ALL of their requirements. As a result, Kodak is doing a separate emulsion run for their sheet film and that just takes time.

Kodak wants to generate film sales ASAP but remember that they are now a leaner organization and it is going to take as long as it takes. I am sorry Joe that the general situation up North lends itself to such market inefficiency. Is there anyone besides Rob that has an ounce of entrepreneurial spirit up there? Come on. Canada and the US are massive trading partners so the honest assessment of this situation is you have nobody to blame but yourselves for the status quo. At the end of the day it is unlikely that this condition is going to change anytime soon unless someone organizes and affects the correct solution.

Just my $0.02.

[John Bowen]

Joseph,

Personally, I would NEVER plan on a important photography trip with film I hadn't tested at home prior to the trip....

Just my 2 cents,

Have Fun!

John

[Ron Bose]

My main issue with Kodak is that they're in business to please their shareholders, period. Kodak's shareholders recognize that their future is in digital and will stop making film as soon as it becomes unprofitable. This is my cynical view of any corporation.

Ilford on the other hand don't make digital sensors or cameras, they just make film, paper and chemicals for B&W (plus the Galleria digital inkjet papers).

If there's one company I want to be successful, it's Ilford. I believe that they will make film products longer than Kodak will. I'm putting my money behind them.

If I knew that Tri-X and Tmax etc would be available I'd stick with them, but I don't have a good feeling.

I'm really pleased that Kodak have a new Tmax film and I'd love to try it. I wished that I had confidence in Kodak to keep me supplied with film, but I just don't.

As for driving to Buffalo to buy film ... where can I get the latest and greatest Tmax in Buffalo or Rochester ?

[Michael Kadillak]

My main issue with Kodak is that they're in business to please their shareholders, period. Kodak's shareholders recognize that their future is in digital and will stop making film as soon as it becomes unprofitable. This is my cynical view of any corporation.

Ilford on the other hand don't make digital sensors or cameras, they just make film, paper and chemicals for B&W (plus the Galleria digital inkjet papers).

If there's one company I want to be successful, it's Ilford. I believe that they will make film products longer than Kodak will. I'm putting my money behind them.

If I knew that Tri-X and Tmax etc would be available I'd stick with them, but I don't have a good feeling.

I'm really pleased that Kodak have a new Tmax film and I'd love to try it. I wished that I had confidence in Kodak to keep me supplied with film, but I just don't.

As for driving to Buffalo to buy film ... where can I get the latest and greatest Tmax in Buffalo or Rochester ?

Rather than induce unnecessary stress into your photography and your life Ron, the best thing that you can do is to walk the talk and support Ilford with 100% of your film consumption. You can acquire all of the Ilford film you need and further frustrations and ill feelings about Kodak should simply be excised by letting them go.

It would be better for all present and future purveyors of this and other forums if people focused on the positive of their experiences than grinding away at what they do not want or like or are dissatisfied with. I can still hear my Grandfather saying "If you do not have something positive to say, you are best to say nothing at all."

At the end of the day it is about expressing ourselves with our images. The details associated with products, materials and corporate business only dilutes us to a very low energy level and accomplishes little of anything.

Merry Christmas and here is to a fabulous 2008!

[rippo]

At the end of the day it is about expressing ourselves with our images. The details associated with products, materials and corporate business only dilutes us to a very low energy level and accomplishes little of anything.



<sigh> someone ALWAYS has to put a damper on things. just when we had another great which-film-is-better discussion going, someone has to start talking about creativity for crissakes!

:)

i shoot what's in other people's fridges. they get rid of it, i buy it, i shoot it. it all looks the same when you hold it up to the light. or at least, i'm not going to stop shooting just because i run out of one type and only have another. it's all just a tool i can use.

except that efke crap.

[Mark Sampson]

Ron-
to buy film in Rochester try the RIT bookstore, 585-475-2505 (probably closed for Christmas) or Hahn Graphic, 585-254-5705. To make the trip worthwhile you can always visit the George Eastman House as well.

[Ron Bose]

[QUOTE=Mark Sampson;301895]Ron-
to buy film in Rochester try the RIT bookstore, 585-475-2505 (probably closed for Christmas) or Hahn Graphic, 585-254-5705. To make the trip worthwhile you can always visit the George Eastman House as well.[/QUOTE

Going to Eastman House is a real ambition for me, I'm planning on going there in the spring. Thanks for the contact details ...

M.K. Sorry if my posts sound negative, they didn't mean to be. I wrote it to come across as pragmatic.

Best wishes to all !!

[Joseph O'Neil]

Joseph,

Personally, I would NEVER plan on a important photography trip with film I hadn't tested at home prior to the trip....
-snip-

Hi John;
Usually good advice, but one of the ways I like to test a new film is on a trip like this. What I do is load one side of the film holder with a "known" film such as HP5 or Tri-X and the other side with the new film. I always do two shots of each subject, even if I am not testing a new film, as 4x5 film is always cheaper than another trip or a lost opportunity.

Sometimes I do that even if I am not testing a new film. Tri-X and HP5 have different enough personalities that it's sometimes kinda neat to shoot the same picture twice, with two different films, just to see how it comes out. Same in the darkroom, I'll often use two different types of paper on the same print.

Then when I get home, I have two Jobo 2500 series tanks, and in the darkroom I feel for the notches, and into one goes the "new" film, into the other goes the "old" film. I always do the "old" tank first and I would normally develop. This way I can both adjust developing times and/or developers for the "new" tank. By comparing negatives side by side, you can get a good feel for a new film.

Off on a tangent here, I noticed looking at the PDF information sheet for the new T-max, that the notch identification on the sheet is almost identical to notch on the now discontinued Forte Pan 400. I still have a couple boxes of Forte Pan in the freezer I was saving for a rainy day, so I'll have to remember that. :rolleyes:

[Michael Kadillak]

[QUOTE=Mark Sampson;301895]Ron-
to buy film in Rochester try the RIT bookstore, 585-475-2505 (probably closed for Christmas) or Hahn Graphic, 585-254-5705. To make the trip worthwhile you can always visit the George Eastman House as well.[/QUOTE

Going to Eastman House is a real ambition for me, I'm planning on going there in the spring. Thanks for the contact details ...

M.K. Sorry if my posts sound negative, they didn't mean to be. I wrote it to come across as pragmatic.

Best wishes to all !!

Absolutely no problem. Come to Foto3 in Ft Collins next summer and the first lager is on me. (I better clear my credit card because I have lots of similar promises to keep). SW airlines now flies into Denver and if you get on the fares early you will be able to get some killer rates. Plus you can get a discount for early registration.

There is no question that this conference will be a massive highlight so do what you have to do to be there. I am scheduling my whole summer around it as I would not miss this one.

Cheers!

[bsimison]

I just received 5 propacks of 120 TMAX 400 from B+H. 4 packs are the new stuff, one pack the old. Fortunately, the new stuff is marked as '400TMY-2' so that can tell them apart when it comes time to develop.

[chilihead]

[QUOTE=Michael Kadillak

I use the best film made irrespctive of the manufacturer and will proactively do what needs to be done to acquire it. In a 400 speed film, there is absolutely NO question that Kodak took a major leap ahead of Ilford with their new and improved T Max 400. The grains structure and the tonalities are to die for. I have used just about every sheet film we can get our hands on in the last five years and I have never been so excited about a film as I am at this juncture after shooting some sample rolls. Instead of milking a product line till its dying day Kodak make an investment in R&D to actually kick it up several notches and for that they should be applauded, not jammed on. We can do better than this.

- I could not agree more and am waiting for this film to arrive!

[Andrew O'Neill]

Is there anyone besides Rob that has an ounce of entrepreneurial spirit up there? Come on. Canada and the US are massive trading partners so the honest assessment of this situation is you have nobody to blame but yourselves for the status quo.

We only have 30 million people up here. You have what...over 200 million? Bet there are a lot more people down there who are into large format photography. We make more money up here selling pucks :) .

When that new TMY comes out, I'll be the first in line...not you John.

[gregstidham]

Canada has 31million, USA 300 million, California alone has 36 million.

I have found Kodak Canada has a very strange relationship with retailers here. I get the feeling that the retailers feel a little abandoned for some reason. Eight Elm told me to order Fuji and that Kodak was too hard to order when I wanted to test out some Kodak color.

I ordered a part once from the Stan C. Reade shop in London on Richmond because I am in London once a week. They were very nice to deal with and I had the tripod part in one week. Are they able to order the new T-Max for you? I'm sure you have tried. I'm just curious what you found out.

[steve simmons]

View Camera will have a review of this new T-Max in our Subscriber's Section in a couple of weeks.

steve simmons

[Jan Pedersen]

Badger is shipping the new Tmax400 in 8x10 Thought you would be interested.
10 sheet boxes only.


jan

[tim atherton]

An increase of $60c a sheet... or an extra $30.00 for 50 sheets ?

[Michael Kadillak]

An increase of $60c a sheet... or an extra $30.00 for 50 sheets ?

I understand that price will be an issue for some people. There is always Efke PL100 at $2.50 a sheet in 50 sheet boxes and Freestyle is ready willing and able to accomodate anyone in this regard.

To get access to this high quality sheet film at this price is simply marvelous. In the short term I could really care less about the number of sheets per box. I have plenty of old 50 sheet boxes that I will fill with the 10 sheet packets and head on down the road. Over time we will modify this arrangement as necessary. One of the things you learn in working with Kodak is that tug boats take time to move large ships but they eventually complete the task.

Onward!

[John O'Connell]

I understand that price will be an issue for some people. There is always Efke PL100 at $2.50 a sheet in 50 sheet boxes and Freestyle is ready willing and able to accomodate anyone in this regard.

TMY is unique for its reciprocity. It has no replacement in 8x10. I am effectively held over a barrel with every price increase. My reaction, therefore, to a 20&#37; price increase is not to smell the glove, but mild incredulity.

I appreciate Kodak's products, and rely exclusively on its film. I'm sure the new TMY is an amazing advance in quality. But I am very glad that I ordered my next batch of TMY before the new stuff hit the streets.

[Charles Hohenstein]

View Camera will have a review of this new T-Max in our Subscriber's Section in a couple of weeks.

steve simmons

I hope that it makes it into the magazine itself. I never bother with the subscribers' stuff online.

[steve simmons]

Yes, in the March issue but we wanted to give our subscribers a bonus by way of an early report on this film.

steve simmons
www.viewcamera.com

[venchka]

Steve,

When will the March issue of the magazine be on the shelf at Barnes & Noble?

[steve simmons]

Early March. If you subscribe now you can get access to the Subscriber's Section and read the article earlier:)

steve

[snuck]

Actually, I find that Toronto acting like the center of the world is a bit of a legend... At least I don't feel like it's teh center of the world and I've been here my entire life.

[Joseph O'Neil]

I ordered a part once from the Stan C. Reade shop in London on Richmond because I am in London once a week. They were very nice to deal with and I had the tripod part in one week. Are they able to order the new T-Max for you? I'm sure you have tried. I'm just curious what you found out.

-snip-

I even printed out the PDF page off the Kodak web site, but in their most recent dealer cataolog (whenever that is/was) they simply do not have it listed, not even as a new or soon to arrive product.

I feel rather sorry for them however, as they were telling me about times they will ahve a customer looking for this or that, and they will talk to the specific various Canadian distributor and be told that this item or that item is either not available, or the price is so high as to be completely out of line. They will litterally be online looking at a specific item at B&H, seeing it listed as "in stock", while being told this.

The issue is not just film or cameras. For example, this past week, I was looking for aluminum wood screws. A place near Toronto can special order them in for me, $135.00 plus taxes and shipping for 100 screws, minimum 200 screw order. Takes a week or two to get them in.

The exact same screws, from an American source, in stock for immediate delivery, $15.85 US for 100 screws, minimum $35 order. :confused:


You know something, at this point, I don't care if it's wood screws or film, I don't care who's fault it is, the situation is just 100&#37; pure bulls**t. Sorry if I offend somebody, but it's the truth. I don't mind paying 10 or 20% more because of long distance distribution costs are higher, but it is amazing how many items are sometimes double the cost or more. Especially when you are dealing with a specialty item like large format photography - I can imagine the majority of us (or anybody into any sort of specialized form of anything, from quilting to boat building) are on-line, and checking out prices, delivery, whether an item is in stock or not, etc.

Anyhow, back to film, thanks to Rob, I have new box of HP5 in addition to my box of Tri-X, ready to go when I leave for the Keys in a couple weeks time. What i wish I really had on hand was a box of the new T-max and a box of Delta 400. :(

So - if anybody knows of a place not far of the I-75 stocking the new T-max in 4x5, do let me know. :D