New B&W Magazine

[vickersdc]

Hi everyone,

After reading comments made on this and other forums, many people seem to be 'unhappy' with the photography magazines out there - often citing the increase in articles of digital equipment reviews and Photoshop how-to's.

I decided to create a new magazine - one that deals with traditional image making, whether that's 35mm HP5, glass plate negatives or cyanotypes. Although I've only been working on it for a matter of days, there are several interested parties and offers of support and articles.

It is the intention to provide articles online at http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com on a weekly basis and then to provide a paper-based copy once a quarter. Several people mentioned that they prefer to sit down and read a real magazine - it's hard to relax in your favourite armchair with a cup of tea and an Apple Mac perched on your lap ;-)

The first article is due to go live in mid-January and I hope that you'll visit the site and lend your support - this really is supposed to be a magazine for the traditional photographic community, written by us, for us and directed by us. The direction, success or failure of the venture is in the hands of the community, so really hope you'll take a look, subscribe to the RSS newsfeed and maybe even submit an article or two.

The site is up and running right now, providing daily updates on progress as we head towards our real go-live date.

Please visit http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com to find out more.

Many thanks,
David Vickers.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Will check it out. Thanks!

[Kirk Gittings]

Good Luck! The name is a little ponderous though. Creative Image would be stronger.

[Dave Wooten]

Good luck Dave,

However I for one am not at all unhappy. IMNSHO there is more really interesting "stuff" going on in traditional and historic processes and digital imaging than ever before! There are good quality publications (always room for another) and a revival of interest and investment in photographic art. I have a freezer full of ULF film, a guilty conscience of not exposing it in a more timely manner, a set of "new" 5 x 7 enlargers purchased for a song to furnish a teaching studio, process lenses once costing thousands which cover ULF are available for reasonable prices, quality 35 mm systems are available for less than pennys on the dollar, 10 mp cameras a few months ago costing thousands are 195 dollars and change, there is renewed appreciation in the nuance of the upright bass and the personality of good tube amps...and there are some really good quality photo mags available. If your mag is really really good, and can be brought to fruition, it could be successful. The community is a receptive community...It was nt that long ago that Dave's Focus was the new kid on the block, overcame some rough starts and obsticles but look at it now! It certainly has defined and taken its respectable place in the market...Focus, View Camera and Lenswork all have their audience and I feel have raised a high bar indeed. And there are many more fine publications in different aspects concerning the trade of imaging and specifically Black and White...

On line one finds sites like the Alternative Process site, with publications, formulas, articles and galleries, featuring many of the best artists in the medium, many of whom are members of this forum.There has never been another time in history when information was so readily available and so freely given and shared by community...it is the best of times for photographic arts and photographic art education....there is change but there is no unhappiness here.:)

[Mark Carstens]

Will check it out. Thanks!
I'm down with that. :cool:

Looking forward to it, in fact!

~Mark

PS - Hey, ya, Dave Wooten! Been a long time!

[Dave Wooten]

I'm down with that. :cool:

Looking forward to it, in fact!

~Mark

PS - Hey, ya, Dave Wooten! Been a long time!

Hey Mark! Keep the Faith!:)

[Wayne]

Yay! Looking forward to the print version of it.

Wayne

[vickersdc]

Well, things are certainly moving on apace, with articles being written on a wide range of subject matter, offers of images and a number of other things going on behind the scenes.

As well as the online magazine at http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com, you can now email the magazine at creativeimagemaker at yahoo.co.uk with your comments, ideas, articles or images.

There's some decisions that need to be made regarding the paper copy - please visit the site, read through the issues and add your comments. In fact, whilst you're there, why not subscribe to the RSS newsfeed and then you can have the articles delivered to your computer automatically.

I'm also after featuring events, exhibitions and camera clubs - so if you know of a worthy cause let me know.

Thanks everyone,
David Vickers.
http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com

[Witold Grabiec]

David,
Let me start with best of luck wishes. What follows is not meant to undercut your wings and I truly hope your noble efforts will benefit the entire photographic community.

Here is my problem,
You have set up a site at a google blogspot, which is well, ... a blog, on top of that, you have set up an email with Yahoo. I hope I'm wrong and I hope you will get the support you're asking for or ... it will become YOUR blog on photography, which in itself could be just as good as anything out there.

My suggestion is to set up a dedicated site (and I would imagine you're thinking about it), which can be had for little to start and as bandwidth demand increases it can be transferred to a more dedicated server. Having a specific site gives you a more "committed" look right of the bat, allows you to set up a blog that has a "pure" address etc. Of course this approach would take a lot more to get it going and maintain, but perhaps the rewards would be higher.

Regardless of what you may be thinking now, you should buy a domain name RIGHT NOW. You're looking at some $6-$8 a year and you can then set your blogspot site to reflect the same name. This will make it really easy to make a transition at a later date.

On the plus side, your site/blog has already better feel than the stubborn ViewCamera, which simply refuses to learn.

To follow up on some the questions you've asked on your site:
I'm not sure about going hard copy right away, but if you do then I'd say B&W would do just fine. In the end it's all about what's in it and how it's put together. I'm unfamiliar with LuLu (although I tend to think she's good looking) and I'll check "her" out when I get a chance. However, hard copy is a completely different planet and it may cause problems that you possibly might not want to deal with at the early stages of building up content, reputation and followers.

Regards,
Witold Grabiec

[Marko]

I agree with Witold, to an extent - the blog's there, but where exactly is the magazine? While both provide something called "web presence", those are two totally different animals which serve very different purposes. View Camera, on the other hand, does have a website. Rudimentary and obsolete as it may be, but it still is a real magazine with a real website.

Unless you plan to have something really new and interesting every day, about a magazine that still does not exist, a blog may turn to be counter-productive for your stated purpose. Try as I may, I just can't see how anybody could provide fresh news about a stable and mature niche of a stable and mature art form.

Yesterday's news are not news, they're history. And we live in the times and in an environment in which few care about history.

[steve simmons]

On the plus side, your site/blog has already better feel than the stubborn ViewCamera, which simply refuses to learn.


Another cheap shot that is completly out of context. It is amazing how many of these come from people who have no track record of positive contributions to the field at all. As far as our inability to learn please see this thread

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=30224

I encourage anything that will add to the interest in photography and I hope this effort goes well. It is not necessary to take cheap shots at anyone else in the process of this discussion. I have always had a policy of not getting involved in threads about other publications or criticizing other magazines in threads about View Camera.

steve simmons

[Marko]

Steve, you have great content, that's what makes your magazine great, first and foremost.

But in all honesty, your website is, well, underwhelming, to put it diplomatically. There is no sense in getting offended at someone's stating the fact.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

This thread should remain aboout David's new site and magazine and not about View Camera or any other publication (in my opinion). If we focus on providing David with positive ideas and suggestions on how to make his new effort a success then this thread will be a great resource for him, and for us.

But if we start pulling other publications into the thread then, as always, we will head off into directions that will not be of benefit to David. Lets try to remain positive and be mindful that publishers of other online and print publications also contribute to this site and to our community.

Thanks,

[vickersdc]

Hang on a moment! The last thing I want is for this thread to turn in to a magazine bashing (whoever it belongs to!).

If you've read the site at http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com then you'll have a feel for what has gone on, but here's a quick precis as to why we are where we are...

I was reading a thread on APUG about the UK B&W magazine and there were 12 pages of people who were unhappy about certain aspects of the magazine (and other magazines too). As I read these, I just thought - "I wonder if I set up something for the traditional photographer, whether there would any interest?".

I put a comment up on the thread and a couple of people replied and I just got ot started there and then. Now, I don't have bundles of money hanging around (especially with Xmas on the horizon!) and the quickest way to build something that was useful was through blogger.com - not the best way I agree and one day I'd like to have a dedicated site. The yahoo email was a quick way to avoid overloading my personal email box and there's another reason for it too - but more about that in a lter posting.

You can look at the 'news' aspect of it in a couple of ways - namely that there's very little that's truly new; but I prefer to think of the site as...

1. a framework for photographers to put up articles on a wide range of subjects for the community to view. Anyone is welcome and I don't mind if you are a subject matter expert on mixing chemicals for glass plate negatives, or a beginner who just wants to relay the excitement of producing your first set of 35mm negatives.
2. all that history - isn't that what makes it interesting? It is to me. Learning from the old-timers, finding out about what goes on in the world of photography.
3. a forum - bad choice of word - somewhere where you can learn about other photographers, what makes them tick, and so on.

This was a spur of the moment decision to do this, but I made a decision to do something about it. So, to that end we've a starting point for a website on which you can put your articles. Then, once a quarter, a paper version can be downloaded from lulu.com. You can email me directly at creativeimagemaker at yahoo.co.uk - so all the pieces are there. Just about! I'm just not in a position to create a glossy magazine, featuring top photographers and distribute paper copies worldwide.

From small acorns...

I hope the site doesn't just become 'my blog' as it were. Isn't that what editing is about? There has to be a range of subjects covered - some that interest me, may not interest you; and vice versa. I have to add that I've been amazed by the interest shown and offers of support, articles and images. I hope I can live up to that.

And as for Steve Simmons, FocusMag and the others - they are under a whole order of magnitude more pressure than I am and I think they do deserve a pat on the back for their dedication. As I'm finding out, it can be difficult to juggle all the little bits that make up a modern magazine.

Thanks and I really do value all these comments, whether they are for or against. It's nice to get others viewpoints.

David Vickers.

[steve simmons]

Steve, you have great content, that's what makes your magazine great, first and foremost.

But in all honesty, your website is, well, underwhelming, to put it diplomatically. There is no sense in getting offended at someone's stating the fact.

Thanks. I don't pretend or present myself as a web person. We put all of our effort into the magazine.

That said, I agree with Eric.

steve

[Marko]

This thread should remain aboout David's new site and magazine and not about View Camera or any other publication (in my opinion). If we focus on providing David with positive ideas and suggestions on how to make his new effort a success then this thread will be a great resource for him, and for us.

But if we start pulling other publications into the thread then, as always, we will head off into directions that will not be of benefit to David. Lets try to remain positive and be mindful that publishers of other online and print publications also contribute to this site and to our community.

Thanks,

Personally, I applaud David for having the enthusiasm to start something new. But since he is entering a field that is not exactly new, it is only fair to draw a quick comparison with the existing players, large and small in order to quickly highlight the good, the bad and the ugly, as the stereotype has it, of all the existing practices.

It is not about criticizing others (or bashing as some would see it), it is about the simple fact that one is best advised to learn upon other people's experiences, especially the not so good ones.

Since his presence is primarily, and for the moment only web-based, it is only fair and useful to point out what is it that he does good and even more so what are the mistakes he seems to be heading into. Pointing other publications' web ... missteps, shall we say?... could as well help David do it right from the beginning, especially since he does not have the budget for mistakes, as he pointed out himself.

As someone who's spent most of my working life in magazine publishing, in the roles of an author, editor, tech support and web developer, I'd rather state an unpleasant truth hoping that it will help at least the OP if not others who read it, than extend false compliments and shrug when the venture fails.

I normally get paid to analyze web ventures and say things like this and I take pride in my ability to do so effectively. I have no interest whatsoever - and this is a response for Steve - to bash anybody, especially not free of charge. ;) I did it as a token of appreciation for your magazine and because I am hoping it would help you make it better.

Like with all things free, you are free to take it or leave it. Just don't call it something it's not.

[Marko]

Thanks. I don't pretend or present myself as a web person. We put all of our effort into the magazine.

I'm not pretending to be a photographer either, but I still try to make my images look their best.

It's not about being a web person, it is about presenting your magazine effectively. Your website is the web face of it, not just an appendix. As for the rest, please see my previous post.

[vickersdc]

@Marko: thanks for the comments.

What I find really exciting - other than providing this framework for others - is the possibilities of it all. The fact that I could even begin to conceive of doing this by putting together bits from various corners of the web is very liberating, challenging and exciting!

[Kirk Gittings]

On the plus side, your site/blog has already better feel than the stubborn ViewCamera, which simply refuses to learn.

Are you reading the same magazine I am? VC has made major strides in the last couple of years and has published some of its best issues ever.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Marko,

I understand, but when comments are made about other publications or websites, saying they are "underwhelming" without stating why you feel this way or providing examples on how it could be improved, then the comment is not constructive, no one learns from the statement, nothing can improve. The statement becomes a matter of opinion (others may feel different).

This happens all the time in these types of threads (not just in this one). Someone states a matter of opinion as a fact with no support, someone else reads it and gets offended, the origional intent of the thread is lost and a big flame war begins.

What is sad in these types of threads is that any opportunity for anyone to learn and possibly improve is lost. My intent with my post was to try and keep everyone on topic in support of David and his new project. Providing examples of "the good, the bad and the ugly" as you put it is fine, and a great way to learn. But, the questions become, why is one good, why is one bad and why is one ugly?

I agree with your response but the previous posts that brought VC into the mix were, in my opinion, not very constructive or educational which is why I posted what I did.

Now, I am being gulity of taking this thread off topic so I will stop and get back to work.

Have a great day everyone and David best of luck to you on your new magazine, I hope it is a success. This is a great forum for learning and insight, the members here are passionate about their photography and I never fail to learn something that is valuable and benefical to my own work.

[Brad Rippe]

I have a pile of View Camera back issues that I constantly review for invaluable information. A blog site seems more ephemeral, and it might be difficult to retrieve items of interest posted a few weeks or months prior.
Also, I highly doubt many of us have a slick and up to date website, I certainly don't.
-Brad

[Witold Grabiec]

Are you reading the same magazine I am? VC has made major strides in the last couple of years and has published some of its best issues ever.

I was purely referring to VC's website (I thought it was obvious from the way it was stated), as David's effort is going to be on-line to begin with. Some of you should remember that topic being brought into question on this forum, by the publisher himself asking for input. Given what happened afterward (virtually nothing) I stopped buying the magazine. I'm sure I missed out on some great articles (and I NEVER question the content of the printed magazine), but I don't regret it nevertheless. I'm gonna keep my head high on this and will make no further comments.

My apology to David for making an off-topic statement. Let's get back to what's at hand.

Thank you.

[Marko]

Marko,

I understand, but when comments are made about other publications or websites, saying they are "underwhelming" without stating why you feel this way or providing examples on how it could be improved, then the comment is not constructive, no one learns from the statement, nothing can improve. The statement becomes a matter of opinion (others may feel different).

This happens all the time in these types of threads (not just in this one). Someone states a matter of opinion as a fact with no support, someone else reads it and gets offended, the origional intent of the thread is lost and a big flame war begins.

Eric,

First off, I also understand where you're coming from and given that we are in understanding :), I am replying for the benefit of the thread.

If you look back, you'll notice that both Witold and I concentrated on commenting David's site in a rather constructive way. Tough, but constructive. Witold's remark about VC's refusal to improve their website drew Steve's consternation to which I replied that as good as the content of his magazine is, his site was indeed underwhelming.

I said that because I really believe it and I have plenty of reasons for it, none of them with malice since I really like the magazine, but I chose not to discuss them because this thread is about David's website/magazine, not Steve's. If Steve really wants to hear my reasons, I am always open for discussion, but either in a different thread or through other means.

I still don't think any of this was out of line with this thread and that it should provide David (or anybody interested) with lots of material to think about, especially since the entire thread was started with the express purpose of soliciting opinions.


What is sad in these types of threads is that any opportunity for anyone to learn and possibly improve is lost. My intent with my post was to try and keep everyone on topic in support of David and his new project. Providing examples of "the good, the bad and the ugly" as you put it is fine, and a great way to learn. But, the questions become, why is one good, why is one bad and why is one ugly?

I agree with your response but the previous posts that brought VC into the mix were, in my opinion, not very constructive or educational which is why I posted what I did.

Like I said above, I did not want to channel the focus away from David's magazine by starting a detailed discussion about Steve's. While I do NOT think of VC's website as the ugly, I do, frankly, think it is bad as the websites go and I do have my reasons for it which I will be more than happy to explain to the interested parties, if any, in a separate discussion.

But since the question was raised and again for the OP's benefit, let me just say the following: the website in question may have been slightly conservative back in '95 or '96, but we are now seeing the 2007 off. In my mind, it should be relatively obvious why I described it as "underwhelming". If not, just visit a few other contemporary magazines' websites, photography-related or otherwise, and compare.

Again, this is NOT meant with any malice, I buy the VC regularly and I admire the effort Steve's obviously putting into it and the quality of the content. I would LOVE to see his website match his magazine, or even come close to it.

Just as I would love to see David's effort succeed.

[Kirk Gittings]

You are right. I misread it. Sorry.
I was purely referring to VC's website (I thought it was obvious from the way it was stated), as David's effort is going to be on-line to begin with. Some of you should remember that topic being brought into question on this forum, by the publisher himself asking for input. Given what happened afterward (virtually nothing) I stopped buying the magazine. I'm sure I missed out on some great articles (and I NEVER question the content of the printed magazine), but I don't regret it nevertheless. I'm gonna keep my head high on this and will make no further comments.

My apology to David for making an off-topic statement. Let's get back to what's at hand.

Thank you.

[steve simmons]

Criticizing us for not having a better web site is a little like complaining about a woodworker who does't have a better display of metal sculpture. The web site is not our primary concern, the magazine is and will continue to be. To bring us into a thread that had nothing to do with View Camera and to which I had not participated seemed at best frivolous and certainly not helpful to the topic at hand. To simply complain about our site did nothing to help David understand what you think makes up a good web site. To have explained this would have been much more helpful and connected to the topic at hand.

steve

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

And as for Steve Simmons, FocusMag and the others - they are under a whole order of magnitude more pressure than I am and I think they do deserve a pat on the back for their dedication. As I'm finding out, it can be difficult to juggle all the little bits that make up a modern magazine.

As someone who constantly updates his website, it is nearly impossible to come up with something that is technologically sufficient to compete against the big dogs' websites (http://www.style.com/vogue, http://www.artforum.com, etc.). A magazine's website should be clean, direct and to the point unless you've got a billion dollars behind you.

Anyway, David, I hear you're asking for submissions from writers... what about the photographers that aren't writers? What do THEY want to read in a magazine that's not being covered by all of the photography magazines out there today? While I definitely don't feel your magazine should be all about digital photography like all photo technique mags are today, talking a little bit about digital equipment might not hurt.

So guys and gals: If you had your own magazine, what would YOU read in it? Take that idea, no matter how frivolous or silly or even complicated it might sound and tell David (not me) this.

[Marko]

Criticizing us for not having a better web site is a little like complaining about a woodworker who does't have a better display of metal sculpture. The web site is not our primary concern, the magazine is and will continue to be. To bring us into a thread that had nothing to do with View Camera and to which I had not participated seemed at best frivolous and certainly not helpful to the topic at hand. To simply complain about our site did nothing to help David understand what you think makes up a good web site. To have explained this would have been much more helpful and connected to the topic at hand.

steve

If you read back, you will see that we actually gave David a relatively pointed set of advice, namely:

1. Get a real website with its own domain name instead of the blog - in other words, do like the View Camera does, this was a positive example

2. Have your email point to the same domain instead of a generic free web-based mail to avoid looking unnecessarily cheap - this time View Camera was brought as a negative example, as it is using an AOL (!) email

3. Do take the input of your readers seriously and do be ready for frequent site adjustments - unlike View Camera, and as demonstrated by your own comments within this thread.

What we are talking about here is not complaining about View Camera nor even its website, it is simply analyzing the things a well known photographic magazine does good and what it does bad when it comes to its web presence.

You seem to think a web site is utterly unimportant and that's fine, it is your magazine and your site, you are certainly entitled to set your policies the way you find fit. But in the end, if your own web site is not your primary concern, you shouldn't be concerned with what other people think about it either.

[steve simmons]

You seem to think a web site is utterly unimportant

show me where I said this?

Our web site communicates a lot of info to people. To me that is more important than having a sexy site that could overwhelm the content.

I am done. We work hard with our publication and judging from the recent comments our efforts are improving things for our readers. This is what matters most to me.

steve

[Witold Grabiec]

You seem to think a web site is utterly unimportant

show me where I said this?

Our web site communicates a lot of info to people. To me that is more important than having a sexy site that could overwhelm the content.

I am done. We work hard with our publication and judging from the recent comments our efforts are improving things for our readers. This is what matters most to me.

steve

Nothing changed, your arrogance just blows my mind. You sure have a nerve to even suggest that you did not say (or imply or whatever) that in your mind a web site is utterly unimportant. Nobody said anything about a need for a "sexy" site. Your site may have information, but it isn't even formatted. A kid in 6th grade could format the info you have on your site in a superior way. What your site shows is, that you completely don't care about its visitors. A typical "take it or leave it approach". Furthermore, it was you Steve Simmons who back some time ago asked about "why so many complaints about our web site?". Many (including myself) pointed out to you the problems. Any of those comments took time to think about, to write them. And again, you asked for them then. The result of that is still visible today. You have (constructive) criticism at the furthest point of your body.

It's a real shame that a person with obviously great knowledge of the medium and desire to serve the LF community, ends up spitting into every critics face, time and again. But as it was stated already, it is your magazine and your web site. You made a choice to live it like so and don't expect people to pad you on the back, just because you happened to publish an informative magazine (and link it to a childish looking web site).

You have managed to make some outrageous comments over time, all pointed at your critics. You continue to get away with it. So be it.

I'm gonna have to apologize to David once more. Sorry.

[Marko]

Sexy site? Overwhelming the content?

Come now, that kind of danger is not even theoretical. :rolleyes:

[Merg Ross]

Rather sad how some who post to this forum seem to have very little to say other than of a personal nature. And how often they stray from the topic and end up with an apology to the original poster. I am not sure that these folks are even photographers, as I seldom find links to their works.

However, there are a few individuals, who with their passion and hard work, contribute a great deal to the large format community. I would include Steve Simmons in this group.

And to David, I wish you the very best in your efforts. I believe that you have the passion to be successful.

[Colin Corneau]

I mean no offence to anyone, but I don't want to see someone bickering on this, or any, forum.

Please, for the benefit of what we're all here for -- sharing the passion and wisdom concerning LF photography -- take such disagreements to private messages.

Witold, I thank you for being here and the information you've shared (as a newcomer to LF, it's invaluable, believe me). Steve, I'm very grateful for your magazine and the education it's given me so far. Working at a newspaper, I can appreciate how much work goes into a printed product.

Now, let's get back to what we all agree on...it's so much more plentiful than what we don't.

[vickersdc]

Hi everyone - may I just ask politely that we come back to topic please? Please let's not degenerate in to a whole heap of negative comments (or rather comments that can be misconstrued). Personally, I've taken no offence at anything that has been said here.

I also applaud the likes of Steve Simmons and FocusMag and the tasks, problems and issues that they have to overcome to bring a quality magazine to your door. Clearly, I would like you all to support my project to utilise the resources of the internet to bring content to all of you - but please don't let it become an us vs. them issue. Support Steve & co. in their ventures too, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

FocusMag makes a good point, and it's a common theme in many of my posts here, on the site and over at APUG that I am looking for contributors, but that I also really do want to know what it is you are all after. You can send comments in to the site at http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com or email me at creativeimagemaker at yahoo.co.uk.

Thank you all for your support, comments and ideas. Keep them coming.

FYI: I've applied for an ISSN and hopefully secured www.creativeimagemaker.co.uk for a future dedicated website.

David Vickers.

[steve simmons]

One of the frustrations about forums like this is that some people have the attitude that winning is everything. They take and twist and manipulate and infer, etc. what other people say to make them look bad. Marko and Witold seem to have a personal agenda here and have hijacked this thread for their own purposes.

If I thought a web site was utterly unimportant I would not have one. Ours has a lot of information that has been very helpful to people getting started in large format. I get thank you notes all the time from people who access our site and get information that they feel is very helpful to them. As I've said in another thread putting more info on a regular basis into the Subscriber's Section is a priority in 08

If I thought people's comments here were to be ignored I would not ask for them or follow them. Given the comments about View Camera over the last year it should be obvious to anyone who cared that we have made a significant effort to pay heed to these comments and make improvements in the magazine. We have also made entry into the Subscriber's Section of the web site easier by printing the password on the cover of the copies going to the subscribers.

I wish David a lot of success. He and I have exchanged PM's and will be working together in the future to help each other out and further our efforts to promote -photography.

As an aside, I am working hard, along with others, to make foto3 as big a succcess as possible. If it is we all win.

steve

[Marko]

One of the frustrations about forums like this is that some people have the attitude that winning is everything. They take and twist and manipulate and infer, etc. what other people say to make them look bad. Marko and Witold seem to have a personal agenda here and have hijacked this thread for their own purposes.

Steve (and others), I have said it before and I will say it again, I do not earn money through photography, all my connections to it are strictly personal and of enthusiast nature. Therefore, I can assure you that I have absolutely no personal agenda here other than to help you and others who invest so much effort into publishing these great magazines make those efforts even more successful.

You are right, it may be the biggest frustration of all about forums like this that people don't actually listen to what you have to say but project into it what they want to hear or, alternatively, what they would be saying and why if they were you.

I tried to make myself as clear as I possibly could, what I said was without malice, I stand behind my opinion and I will not apologize for it. But in the end, I do regret participating in this discussion.

I wish you all the best in your endeavors.

Marko

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

Hi everyone - may I just ask politely that we come back to topic please? Please let's not degenerate in to a whole heap of negative comments (or rather comments that can be misconstrued). Personally, I've taken no offence at anything that has been said here.

I also applaud the likes of Steve Simmons and FocusMag and the tasks, problems and issues that they have to overcome to bring a quality magazine to your door. Clearly, I would like you all to support my project to utilise the resources of the internet to bring content to all of you - but please don't let it become an us vs. them issue. Support Steve & co. in their ventures too, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

FocusMag makes a good point, and it's a common theme in many of my posts here, on the site and over at APUG that I am looking for contributors, but that I also really do want to know what it is you are all after. You can send comments in to the site at http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com or email me at creativeimagemaker at yahoo.co.uk.

Thank you all for your support, comments and ideas. Keep them coming.

FYI: I've applied for an ISSN and hopefully secured www.creativeimagemaker.co.uk for a future dedicated website.

David Vickers.

Good luck getting your ISSN. Took me over a year... and I'm STILL waiting on my passport.

[vickersdc]

@FocusMag:

I've received my ISSN! It took about 6 hours in all.

David.

[Pavel+]

Well then back to the topic. Sadly however, after looking at your blog, which is I think antithetical to the idea of a magazine anyhow, I need to say that I'm unimpressed.

Let me explain. It is easy for anyone to say "I'm going to start a magazine". First question I think is "what for?"
Well if the answer is just for information for you guys ... then stick to a blog. There are countless ones out there and along with the Forums are a great source of information.

A magazine is something different. I certainly would like another option but the approach I've seen towards it here (and I mean this with a good heart) makes me doubt that you have any experience with the matter at all and it will never materialize.

Why do I think this? Glad you asked! :)
First of all, and this is so obvious its like getting hit by a bus, so why does it have to be debated: your site is your image. Your image then is a blog. A standard blog - like that which any 14 year old can throw up. So it is great for the information part .... but you are not making it look at all like something even thinking of heading towards magazine status. You look (from what I've read so far and then seen by contrast on your blog) that you know nothing about what it takes to run a magazine. In a nutshell .... money! Where are you going to raise it? That is a rhetorical thing ... but the point is ... to raise money as you know ... you have to sell. There are several established ways to go about this ... but first and foremost you have to differentiate yourself somehow enough that people will give you said moneys. A blog? C'mon. What were you thinking?

A yahoo address? What were you thingking? Reeks of lack of proffesionalism. No domain name and polished web site right at the start? What were you thinking. I think you thought that you could just throw up good content ... and it would grow organically?

I think you need to think again. A magazine in print is an expensive undertaking. Have you even scoped out how much printing on good paper costs? And the lead times? Have you thought that you will need dedicated people, all versed in the details to run it?

Perhaps I'm thinking too far forward here (but you asked) and you want to put up something far less that what we can now buy ... but then don't start telling us about a paper magazine (because we are hungry :) ) unless you know what you are getting into.

THis may seem harsh to you. But that is my point. I don't know you at all .... all I have is this thread and your blog - and this promise of a magazine.
I'd love a magazine as we all would - but I don't want to get my hopes up ... because I've seen that you don't have even a vague clue about the biz. It shows in your approach - it shows in your lack of preparation. In short ... the image projected to this pilot study .... is lacking.

Good luck. I mean that sincerely. Heck if I didn't care if you suceeded, I would not bother writing this. But perhaps a blog is the thing to have. A magazine is quite a different beast. Have you ever run one or worked for one?

Again ... good luck. It took the wright brothers many attempts ... after all. :)

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

@FocusMag:

I've received my ISSN! It took about 6 hours in all.

David.

Holy mother of... :eek: what did you do???

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

Pavel, while you bring up a lot of good points, however; couldn't there have been a kinder, softer way of saying these things to David? I just feel bad... here's a guy who genuinely wants to help the photography community... I think some people should treat him with a little more respect.

[Pavel+]

Actually FocusMag .... you are absolutely right. I should know better than to post things that I've written while I have five minutes and no time to re-read. I'm sorry about the tone of it .... it was meant just to illustrate what was my impression and written as if I was, myself, impervious to criticism put in a harsh way.
So ... I'm really sorry about that.

I want to make it clear that I am all behind the concept and have my fingers crossed as to its eventual sucess. Heck, which of us would not want another source of inspiration and wisdom? Everything that promotes the community is a plus.

So consider me as a potential subscriber .... but take the care to make this a reality. The publishing biz is a hard place and these times of the internet and the expected "free" price-tag to information makes this a formidable challenge and I think will need careful stepping .... to make it a reality.

Once again ... sorry for the lousy way of putting my posts guys ... I know you are trying to do us a good turn.

[vickersdc]

Hey Pavel+ - no offence taken!

Let's try and work through a couple of these issues; for me this is a kind of 'open-source' magazine, i.e. I would like the community to be involved in the making and success of the project.

May I just go back to how this all started (as I'm sure many of you are thinking along the same lines as Pavel+). This is "cards-on-the-table" stuff, so stick with it...

I read a thread on APUG relating to the (UK) B&W magazine, in which there were 12 pages of people who could see the trend in digital articles was increasing and they were questioning whether this was the right direction to go. For them, the magazine had always stood for traditional imaging - but times are changing. For me personally, I used to buy the magazine precisely because it was heavily biased towards traditional photography, but I didn't want to read about digital stuff. Now, I like digital too - my 'commercial' stuff is done using digital and it's quick and easy; but my personal stuff, my passion, is with the traditional process.

So, after reading 12 pages of comments, I thought rather than add to the comments I would do something about it. And I have.

I wanted a quick way to test the water as it were and the quickest way I could think of was to utilise blogger. Not ideal, but quick and it allowed me to find out if there really was interest in such a project. Then I thought, rather than clog my own email address up, I should at least get one specific to the project - hence the Yahoo! address.

If you take a look at recent postings on http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com you'll see that the whole 'professional approach' has been looked in to; and I pleased to say that I have secured the web domain www.creativeimagemaker.co.uk so that I can build exactly what you describe - a professional, dedicated site for the magazine. And I can also use that domain name for my email.

This is a work-in-progress and I'm trying hard to build this up from, quite literally, nothing. I don't have the resources to suddenly create a global magazine from zero. I'm not trying to take on and beat FocusMag or Steve Simmons. I'm not trying to emulate Amateur Photographer or any other mag - just trying to carve a little niche for the community.

So, where are we now? Remember, this started last Friday night.

One week ago there was nothing.

In that time, we've managed to create a functional site, a dedicated email address, got RSS newsfeeds setup and had several offers of articles for the online magazine due to go live on the 15th.

I've also applied for, and got, an International Standard Serial Number for the magazine and got a dedicated domain name so that I can build the professional site that you quite rightly mention should have. I've had over 700 hits in 6 days and over 1,100 page visits and whilst they may not be massive numbers they certainly show a certain level of interest and support for this community project.

I've been in contact with Steve Simmons, of the excellent View Camera (http://www.viewcamera.com) magazine and I'd like to contact FocusMag (http://www.focusmag.info) too.

This is an online project, with articles appearing weekly from 15th January and then a paper version distributed once a quarter via Lulu.com - that means the first issue will be around April time.

Pavel+, I hope you stick around, contribute to the ideas and get involved with this project - whether that's ideas, articles, images or comments. Finally, if you've any doubts about just how successful a blog can be, take a few moments to check out David Hobby's site Strobist (http://strobist.blogspot.com).

Thanks for taking the time to read this,
David Vickers.

[vickersdc]

What an amazing week it's been! I figured you might be interested in an update on what we have achieved in one week. The site itself has been visited over 750 times with over 1,200 page impressions. I'm sure they're not all my wife, so someone out there has been looking. Thanks to both of you ;-)

Last Friday it all kicked off and this site was started with a grand plan to start a magazine catering for the traditionalist photographic community. The first posts started and people started to get interested; the RSS newsfeed was set up and people have been subscribing to that.

Since then, we have had several offers of articles - thanks to Scott, John, Cheryl, Drew and others. Thanks too, to Rodrigo for his offer of help.

You can currently contact me at creativeimagemaker at yahoo.co.uk, but that's due to change now that the www.creativeimagemaker.co.uk web address has been secured. This means that I can now setup a dedicated web site and thanks to 'Mark', who through his generous donation has allowed me to get the web hosting we need to see this through. That's Xmas taken care of ;-)

This does mean however, that the first article, due to go online on the 15th January may well appear on the 'proper' site, and I'll be working hard to realise that goal. It would be nice to get it right from the start, rather than have to move everything over later on.

As noted on a previous post, we've also got an ISSN for the magazine, which we can use for the PDF and paper copy, and I'm still looking to distribute through Lulu.com to ensure the widest possible coverage. In fact, I've already started to piece together the magazine, working on styles, fonts, layout and so on.

That just leaves me to say a final 'thank you' to everyone, whether you've just popped along to the site to see what it's about, or you're making a contribution. Remember, this is all about providing the community with a means to see what's going on, who's doing what and hopefully teach each other various techniques along the way.

David Vickers.
http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

What an amazing week it's been! I figured you might be interested in an update on what we have achieved in one week. The site itself has been visited over 750 times with over 1,200 page impressions. I'm sure they're not all my wife, so someone out there has been looking. Thanks to both of you ;-)

Last Friday it all kicked off and this site was started with a grand plan to start a magazine catering for the traditionalist photographic community. The first posts started and people started to get interested; the RSS newsfeed was set up and people have been subscribing to that.

Since then, we have had several offers of articles - thanks to Scott, John, Cheryl, Drew and others. Thanks too, to Rodrigo for his offer of help.

You can currently contact me at creativeimagemaker at yahoo.co.uk, but that's due to change now that the www.creativeimagemaker.co.uk web address has been secured. This means that I can now setup a dedicated web site and thanks to 'Mark', who through his generous donation has allowed me to get the web hosting we need to see this through. That's Xmas taken care of ;-)

This does mean however, that the first article, due to go online on the 15th January may well appear on the 'proper' site, and I'll be working hard to realise that goal. It would be nice to get it right from the start, rather than have to move everything over later on.

As noted on a previous post, we've also got an ISSN for the magazine, which we can use for the PDF and paper copy, and I'm still looking to distribute through Lulu.com to ensure the widest possible coverage. In fact, I've already started to piece together the magazine, working on styles, fonts, layout and so on.

That just leaves me to say a final 'thank you' to everyone, whether you've just popped along to the site to see what it's about, or you're making a contribution. Remember, this is all about providing the community with a means to see what's going on, who's doing what and hopefully teach each other various techniques along the way.

David Vickers.
http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com

David, I'd be happy to offer you any help or suggestions I can offer, however; I have just one question:

Why are you rushing this project through? You just thought of this idea no more than a month ago. Slow down a little. The whole part of running a magazine, either online or in print, is attention to detail. If you're going to be "rushing" to write, edit and publish one article in a month's time, how are you going to have an entire magazine to publish that people can buy online? Have you sought out editors, copy and content? Who's going to be doing the layout and design of the online magazine? Are you going to publish it in PDF format?

I think you're very enthusiastic about your idea... and that's great, but I think there are a lot of details here that you're missing that you need to stop and think about. It takes a good two years to launch a print magazine. Get enough articles and advertisers for a magazine, promise us your first issue by Christmas 2008 and show us something that will absolutely blow us away. Don't show us something that's rushed and unprofessional looking.

Lastly, I'm confused. Is this going to be a blog or a magazine? There's a vast difference between the two.

[vickersdc]

It's not going to be a blog - I'm running a blog at the moment just so that everyone can see what's going on and can get involved. The proper site will be up and running in January for the articles.

I'll PM you and we'll chat.

Thanks,
David.

[vickersdc]

So, the dates have been set - the first article will appear on the 15th January and the Creative Image Maker website will go live a couple of days before, on the 13th.

Before that however, it might be a good idea to get a couple of people to test the site. Would any of you be interested? This testing won't need to be done until around the end of the first week in January, and it'd be useful to check the site out, make sure various links work and that the layout works with your internet browser.

I'm thinking that if we can get 4-5 people running PC's, Mac's with assorted browsers then it'll give me some chance of ironing out any problems before the 13th.

Hope you help - either send me a PM via this site, or email me at creativeimagemaker at yahoo.co.uk

Cheers,
David.

[Wayne Crider]

I wish you luck with the endeavor. As concerns the quarterly print, I think it's smart rather then put out a monthly mag, but I would caution that there are those that have gone before you and caused some talk. Actually having a magazine printed is a whole nuther world and it takes money and total dedication to live in it. I would also say that Unblinking Eye seems to be a very good online site for different processes and would provide a good framework to copy; But then it would just be a copy. If your absolute desire is to publish a mag please follow your heart, but don't take some criticisms of what's out there as a hole to be filled. And realize that there will be those that will criticize you as well. Best wishes and Merry Christmas.

[vickersdc]

Hi Wayne, thanks for the best wishes.

I've got to say that I'm not trying to copy anyone and as there's no money in the pot this whole thing relies on the good will and voluntary contributions of several people. You'll have to forgive me, but I haven't come across 'Unblinking Eye' before - but I'll check it out.

The desire to produce a magazine came about as many people suggested that they would prefer to hold and read a paper-based version; utilising print-on-demand services such as Lulu is about the only way I could ever hope to produce something like this and get wide coverage - I dread to think of the costs involved of producing a limited run and the distributing to the UK, US, mainland Europe and so on.

This is a whole new world to me, and it's filled with endless opportunities. I can think of several exciting things to put together for the site & magazine and I'm going to do it.

As for the criticisms - well, I've had some already and we're not even 'live' yet! I'm not trying to compete with anyone, I'm not even trying to please everyone, but I do believe that there are several people within this community that would like to see something that remains focussed on the traditional branch of photography. I'm really, truly excited by the prospect of being able to give something back to the photo-community (and also provide a framework for others to do the same).

I hope you join in with it - whether it's comments, ideas, images or articles - I'm only to pleased to see them. You can keep up-to-date with the goings-on at http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

And indeed to all of you.

[vickersdc]

Just thought you might be interested in a new competition that will start when the website goes live on January 13th 2008.

It's been inspired by a comment made by a contributor (Christopher Walrath) who has written a couple of articles for the magazine, and it's one of those articles that brought about the idea for a competition.

You'll have to wait until the new website hits the 'net for more details, but although there's no actual prize (other than the self satisfaction of being pronounced the winner - you will have your winning entry included in the paper version of the magazine in April)!

So, for more details look to www.creativeimagemaker.co.uk on the 13th January.

Cheers,
David Vickers.

[vickersdc]

To go with the nice shiny new website that's planned, I figured it made sense to have a proper email address - one that ended in creativeimagemaker.co.uk. An email was duly setup and that's where the problems started!

Personally, I'm not too bothered about using the current Yahoo email address - it seems to work fine and there's a couple of other advantages to me in using it. However, I guess that it doesn't look too 'professional' and I can see the advantages in having a 'proper' email address.

Anyhow, I've setup an email address which is info at creativeimagemaker.co.uk which seems to work OK from some email addresses - although, it now appears that emails originating from Yahoo, gmail, hotmail and BT may not be being received by me.

So - can you (and I know this could open the flood gates!) send me a quick email from your accounts so that I can check this properly. I've tried from my Yahoo account (did not work) and from a Vodafone account (did work). If you can make the subject line "Testing Times", then I can easily seperate these test messages out from any others. Remember, email: info at creativeimagemaker.co.uk if you can.

I will reply to each one, so if you don't get a response within a couple of days then we'll know there's a problem.

Apart from this hiccup, the website build continues on apace, with the various sections coming together nicely. Something tells me that January 13th might come round sooner than I expect!

Happy New Year to one and all.
David Vickers.

[vickersdc]

To go along with the new website, there's a new email address (which is active now) if you would like to contact this project. The email address info@creativeimagemaker.co.uk can be used to submit comments, ideas, thoughts, articles and images.

Speaking of images, the first Feature Image has been selected for the website and there's a photo gallery that will need some more images in it too. I'll be looking through the Flickr 'Creative Image Maker' group at http://www.flickr.com/groups/555449@N25/ to select some for the website. Take a look at the group pool of photos if you get a chance - there's some great images.

The first article has also been chosen, but I'm not giving away any more as there needs to be something of a surprise for when it all goes live on the 13th Jan.

Thanks,
David.

[Witold Grabiec]

have been sitting on this for a while, but this is a New Year for all of us and it's important to start "fresh" so to speak.

While I have no doubt some members have misread (or read incompletely) my earlier comments, I can see how the core of my couple of posts have overshadowed the rest that was said there. At any rate, I want to reinstate one fact and that is: I have never criticized View Camera for lack of content or great contribution of Steve Simmons to the LF community.

On another and a more positive note, I am happy that David has acquired a domain and working hard at releasing his website to the community. Time will tell, but I sure hope this is going to be a long standing and successful project.

From my own experiences with web, I know well enough how not easy it is to combine content and a clean site design. However, I don't subscribe to the notion that ..."If you don't drive a Volvo, you can't criticize it"...

For those who wished they could have a chance to criticize what I do, here is some of it:

wjgrabiec.com (http://wjgrabiec.com)

[vickersdc]

Hi Witold,

Thanks for the comment - I hope that this project turns in to a long-running and successful project; and by successful I'm not talking about financial! I hope that the community joins in, whether it's submitting images or articles, or just stopping by the website for 10 minutes once a week. To me, it's a success if that happens.

And I've got to add that without constructive criticism, little would change. There's a lot that can be learnt from such criticism. Let's be honest here, I love receiving mails saying that this is an exciting project (and it is) and that people are getting involved, but constructive criticism is so important in forming ideas and moving forward.

Anyway, we go online at http://www.creativeimagemaker.co.uk on 13th January (UK) so I hope you'll pop by and leave some feedback.

Cheers,
David.

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

@FocusMag: thank you for your truthful insight - your experience counts as you are actually doing this right now.

I had to smile when you mentioned about personally wealthy! I've only got a website for the e-zine as a kind person gave me a donation to go and do it! I have enthusiasm and a passion to get this project done, but not money :-(

When we've spoken via PM in the past you mentioned about advertising and that's something I'm still thinking about - or rather I'm still thinking about how I'm going to make contact and get this sort of deal (asking for advertising revenue is not something I've done before, so I want to tackle right rather than go off 'half-cocked' as it were).

First of all, you'll be using lulu.com. Their quality is terrible from what I understand. Second, you'll be supporting slave labor. Lulu's books are printed in China. How much do you really think those people are making there?

Second of all, my suggestion about waiting until the holidays this year to release your first issue. Slow down -- take your time with this. Do it right. I am positive that there are some printers in either the UK or the US who will do a short run of 500 copies for you. Create a dummy for the magazine...make it small like 32 pages -- all black and white. Shouldn't cost you, really more than $5000. There are a number of shows, photography related in the US and the UK where you can distribute 100 or so copies to garner interest. Publish a couple of articles, a couple of portfolios, a letter from the publisher and you're good to go. Accept subscriptions on your website for the coming issue. PayPal is easy to use and FREE. Then, find out what it costs to print 1000 copies of your first issue with 64 pages + cover. Get it perfect bound. Buy your paper and binding seperately. I can help you with paper, but I can't help you with binding. Printers markup the paper and binding. Shouldn't be more than $7,500. Re-publish those portfolios and articles with more portfolios and articles. Hopefully you have 25 pages left. Sell each page, again all black and white, for $500 each. Sell your covers for $1000 each. Consider me your first advertiser -- I'll buy your outside back cover. You'll make double the money it costs to print your magazine -- use some of that money to pay your writers. When you have your first issue, send it to me and I'll make some phone calls to my circulation company and try to help you secure some bookstores in the US. Then, as soon as your first issue is launched, which is the most difficult, tell EVERYONE -- EVERYWHERE about it. Then, start working on your second issue. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. You have to understand that you will be responsible for doing all of the sales. You will be responsible for doing the layout and design. But if you rely on 99% of the people in the photography community to support you, you will see what an amazing group of individuals read these forums and how they'll shell out their hard earned money to help support you.

[vickersdc]

@FocusMag:

Thank you! I'm going to take a day or so just to take in what you've said there and get back to you. I've read it, but I want to sit down with it and mull it over. I like what you say, it makes perfect sense - but I'd also like a couple of hours to take it in!

I will be back in touch, and again, thank you for your support.

DV.

[vickersdc]

It's just a couple of days until we go live and I can't wait! There's been a couple of set-backs, but we'll deal with those in a moment.

The site is just about ready - a couple of finishing touches which I'll do Sunday morning, before publishing the site. I'm looking forward to getting it live, as I'd like to spend some time with my wife and daughter!

Now, about those setbacks. One contributor, John Cowie, was going to write an article but is due in hospital thanks to a bad leg. I'm sure you'll wish John a speedy recovery - then he can use that rest and recuperation time to write that article ;-)

The article that I was hoping to lead with has had to be put back one week to give out writer a chance to complete it! I can't wait for this one, and he was always up against it to produce the article against a pretty tight deadline. Not too worry, as it just so happens that I've a couple of spare articles knocking around that have been sent in!

I'd just like to say a huge "Thank You!" to those who have sent in their writings and images, as well as to those who have pledged articles.

Now for the one big setback...

Despite that fact that we haven't actually gone live yet, I'm busy writing a new website. It turns out that the web hosting package that I purchased (that clearly advertised an 'unlimited' number of pages) only had a very limited number of pages - 66 maximum. Whilst that might sound like a lot - it was arranged as 6 top level pages, each with 10 sub-level pages. That's it - no sub-sub-level pages, and no more than 10 pages per top level page.

Considering the number of articles that I'm hoping we can produce throughout the year, we're not going to get too far with that restriction.

So, I've had to start back from scratch, loading up an web-server and Perl language scripts on my laptop. I've had to dust off a few brain-cells from my days as a Systems Administrator working on UNIX systems to create the new site!

So, don't get too comfy with the version 1.0 of the Creative Image Maker site! I reckon we'll be renting that space for about a month whilst I write version 2.0, then we'll switch over.

Anyway, until then, enjoy http://www.creativeimagemaker.co.uk when it goes live on the 13th January (when we'll also launch the competition). The first article will be on the 15th.

Thanks to all those who have helped with advice, work, comments, pictures and to all those who have joined the Creative Image Maker group on Flickr ( http://www.flickr.com/groups/555449@N25/ ).

David Vickers.

[vickersdc]

I've just pressed the 'Publish Site' button, so I guess that means we're now live at http://www.creativeimagemaker.co.uk.

You might find that there's a slight delay before you actually see the site - don't worry; because of the way the internet works, the changes need to be propagated throughout the web (for those in the know, the Domain Name Servers need to be updated and could take up to 24 hours).

Cheers,
David.

[vickersdc]

I'm so dumb sometimes - can I just let you know that the site is up and running at http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk - note you do not need the 'www' bit!

Apologies.
David.

[D. Bryant]

I'm so dumb sometimes - can I just let you know that the site is up and running at http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk - note you do not need the 'www' bit!

Apologies.
David.
I'm confused after visiting the new site, I thought this site was supposed to be about B&W photography, yet there is a color image of the opening page.

Don Bryant

[vickersdc]

Hi Don,

Whilst the magazine will be predominantly B&W, I feel that there's enough space and time to have some colour stuff in there too.

As far as the opening image goes - I didn't have much choice to be honest - it's part of a pre-defined template and there was no option for a B&W image. Fear not, if you've read the news (or looked at the blog site at http://creativeimagemaker.blogspot.com) then you'll know that the site is already being completely re-written, from scratch, due to a 'misleading advert' by the web hosting company. Version 2 will be along in about a months time and will have a slightly different look.

In fact, on this point, if readers send me feedback on the current site then it's a great opportunity to make some changes as I'll have total freedom now that I'm starting from "square 1".

Thanks for your comments Don.
David Vickers.

[vickersdc]

Hi FocusMag! Apologies for not getting back sooner -

I've been in contact with Lulu.com about publishing our magazine through them - and it's potentially not great news for the magazine project.

I was particularly interested in the type of paper they would use - they have many options on the sort of things they will print (books, brochures, notebooks, photobooks, etc.) but nothing specifically mentioning magazines.

So I was keen to chase this one up - if we are to produce something that will really show the images to their best then the paper chosen to print on is of paramount importance as you have mentioned in the past.

However, it seems that whilst many people create books then change them on a monthly basis, in effect creating a magazine, this is not something I want to do. Firstly, it would mean that once changed you would not be able to go back and get a copy of an older issue, and secondly, after a few more questions it seems that they do not print on glossy paper. This is a big deal, so I though I would ask to see if they send out samples of their publishings so that I could assess quality.

It turns out they don't. I can load up a magazine, get it printed and then buy myself a copy to check it out, but they don't give away samples.

So, I wondered if I might contact you privately to find out a bit more about your previous message on this thread?

Many thanks,
David Vickers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk - the new online magazine for traditional photographers.

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

Hi FocusMag! Apologies for not getting back sooner -

I've been in contact with Lulu.com about publishing our magazine through them - and it's potentially not great news for the magazine project.

I was particularly interested in the type of paper they would use - they have many options on the sort of things they will print (books, brochures, notebooks, photobooks, etc.) but nothing specifically mentioning magazines.

So I was keen to chase this one up - if we are to produce something that will really show the images to their best then the paper chosen to print on is of paramount importance as you have mentioned in the past.

However, it seems that whilst many people create books then change them on a monthly basis, in effect creating a magazine, this is not something I want to do. Firstly, it would mean that once changed you would not be able to go back and get a copy of an older issue, and secondly, after a few more questions it seems that they do not print on glossy paper. This is a big deal, so I though I would ask to see if they send out samples of their publishings so that I could assess quality.

It turns out they don't. I can load up a magazine, get it printed and then buy myself a copy to check it out, but they don't give away samples.

So, I wondered if I might contact you privately to find out a bit more about your previous message on this thread?

Many thanks,
David Vickers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk - the new online magazine for traditional photographers.

Absolutely. My E-Mail address is david@focusmag.info. I appreciate and I'm sure the people reading this thread appreciate the effort you are putting towards creating this publication. It is not easy. The printer I use in the US is beyond incredible and VERY good to deal with. He's honest, supportive of the photography community and I feel one of the best, if not THE best printer in the US for photography. Maybe I'll have you contact him. Anyway, let's talk more... E-Mail me.

[vickersdc]

Well, we are now one week old and what a success it's been! Thank you all for your support and coming to visit the site at http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk.

There's been a marvellous response and it's been great receiving your mails, with the vast majority seeming to like the new site.

So, how well have we done? Well, in the first seven days there's been just over 750 visits and an amazing 3,615 page views (now, that can't have all been down to my wife). Actually, my wife has still to visit the site so she's still a little perplexed about what it is that takes up my spare time!

There's a new article going up tomorrow (Tuesday 22nd January) which I think you'll find really interesting - more about that later on.

The build of version 2.0 of the site continues apace and I had a bit of a breakthrough over the weekend with how articles will be displayed - nothing fancy, I just wanted a particular look and neat coding! So far, the article archive has been sorted out, as has the competition page, the gallery and featured images - I reckon another couple of weeks should see the new, new site completed and ready for switchover.

Again, thank you for the support you have shown - keep popping by to check out the latest articles and images.

Cheers,
David Vickers.

[vickersdc]

This week in Creative Image Maker, we've an article written by John Powers about the 8x10 camera.

John recounts of how he fell in to, or rather was drawn in to using the 8x10 camera and of his love for using this equipment to produce images that have been in several solo shows and competitions.

Andrew O'Neills 'Holy Mary Sunrays' feature image is still up for one more week, when it'll be 'replaced' by another fabulous image with a story to tell. (To be fair, it won't actually be replaced as it'll still be available for viewing!).

I hope you enjoy reading it!

Cheers,
David Vickers.

[vickersdc]

I've made a couple of minor changes to the site which I hope will make it more useful to you.

The changes relate to the 'About' section - where there used to be a 'Meet The Team' page showing information on the contributors that helped get the project started. That page has been removed and replaced by a more useful 'Links' page that lists...

- Forums: all your favourite forums are listed here (if I've missed any out then let me know!). These forums are the ones who allowed me to post innumerable threads about the project without getting angry. Well, maybe just a little bit, but it was my own fault! So a big 'Thanks' not just to the members of those forums, but also the moderators who allowed me to post.
- Flickr: that huge resource for images. You'll find the link to the Creative Image Maker group and others as I come by them.
- Websites: belonging to contributors. A great way to find out what other photographers are doing; there's some inspirational work here.

I hope you enjoy looking through the site, please keep on popping by and giving me your feedback as I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts on the site.

Cheers,
David Vickers.

[vickersdc]

There are quite a few things to update you all on...

1. The switch to version 2.0 of the website.
2. Paper-based magazine.
3. Up-coming feature images and articles.
4. Other news.

*** Version 2.0 ***
The bulk of the new website is ready, but it's always a bit of a catch-up as each week passes by as I have to upload new items to the current site and then convert them for the version 2.0 site. The quicker we can get the switchover done, the better!

The change to the new site will mean that it will be unavailable for 24-48 hours whilst the changes percolate through the internet. That switchover may well be happening this week once I'm happy that it is sorted with the hosting provider (there are currently 'issues' around finances for this - i.e. I want a refund!).

*** The Paper Magazine ***
It would appear that the idea for a print-on-demand magazine will not be happening. I received the samples from Lightning Source (whom, I must add, were extremely helpful), but the quality of image reproduction just wasn't what I had hoped for.

This is a bit of a blow in the whole plan, but undeterred I have found a good ol' traditional printer who could well save the day! It's likely that there will not be a magazine in April as I had originally hoped, but with luck June may be more realistic - and here is where you can help me... I will need to have a rough idea of how many people are interested in a proper, quality magazine so that I can obtain pricing. You can email me at info@creativeimagemaker.co.uk (subject line "Paper mag") and let me know. It'll give me an idea of whether I'm looking at printing 500 copies, or 5.

*** Future Features ***
There are so many articles in the pipeline that I want to put them all up on the site now! It's becoming hard to choose what should go up and when! This is fabulous and I'd like to thank those that have already been published and all those waiting in the wings for their work to be published. Over the next couple of months we've got...

- An article by Dorothy Kloss about building a darkroom;
- Several article by Christopher Walrath covering a range of subjects (Chris was one of the first people to contribute and he's still waiting to see his work in the magazine - sorry Chris, it's coming, honest!);
- Stan L-B writes about why light matters;
- Jason Brunner, whom some of you may recognise from the APUG forum, has written a piece about the Fotoman 6x17 camera;
- Jim Read tells us about creating cyanotypes;
- Tom Overton provides follow-on information about the use of coffee as a developer;
- Do you buy equipment from eBay? I know I do, and John Sawula has written an article about it;
- Even I am getting in on the act! I've written articles on the Nikon EM camera (a much under-rated camera), and I'll be kicking off the beginners series with a look at the equipment one needs to create your own images...
- ...and I've also got a Polaroid special planned as well (in spite of recent announcements about Polaroid!).

Feature images are going from strength to strength as well - today (10th Feb) will see not one, but two feature images! Thanks to Dennis Cordell and Alan Huntley for their kind permission to use their photographs.

*** Other News ***
As I'm sure you are all aware by now it's been an interesting time in the world of photography. Fuji unveiled their prototype medium format rangefinder - a 6x7 folding camera and we await to see if it actually makes it in to production in the future. Polaroid, on the other hand, have announced the closure of two factories with the loss of several jobs. This is a great shame to those of us who use Polaroid films - especially for image transfers and emulsion lifts as the Fuji film just doesn't work the same way. It's interesting to note that Polaroid is ready to licence the technology and I wonder who will take over the production of Polaroid films - let's hope someone does!

With that, I'll end there. Please stop by the magazine site over the week to see all the new features. It's at... http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk

Thanks,
David.

[vickersdc]

The current Creative Image Maker website will be updated early next week (week commencing 18th Feb) and this will mean a loss of service for a few days.

The current site does not allow us enough room for expansion as there is a limit on the number of pages allowed and it also has a fixed hierarchy of those pages. We are already near the limits on the articles section and so this update is needed. The new site provides us with much more freedom and I'm looking forward to getting it uploaded.

The new site has a familiar feel to it, although there are some minor differences - particularly in the way that articles will be displayed; with the new site, articles will appear in a new window. Navigation remains broadly similar as do the section titles.

The current site will have to be pulled first, before the new site can be uploaded; following that the domain name servers (that allow your computer to go to the site) will need to be updated and that can take 24-48 hours. I'm looking to start this on Monday, with a view to normal service resuming on Wednesday.

As an additional thing, I'm wondering whether it's worth re-instating the Gallery? I definitely want to keep the Feature Images as that seems to be a real hit, but I'm not so sure about the Gallery - especially when there's Flickr, APUG, et al. What do you think?

Also, I haven't been pushing the events / exhibitions / camera club sections as I've been concentrating on getting articles and images - do you feel that this section is worth building up (I'm happy to do it, if you think it's worth it)?

That's all. Remember that it is a magazine for you and I do value your input, we wouldn't be here without it after all!

Cheers,
David.

[D. Bryant]

As an additional thing, I'm wondering whether it's worth re-instating the Gallery? I definitely want to keep the Feature Images as that seems to be a real hit, but I'm not so sure about the Gallery - especially when there's Flickr, APUG, et al. What do you think?

Also, I haven't been pushing the events / exhibitions / camera club sections as I've been concentrating on getting articles and images - do you feel that this section is worth building up (I'm happy to do it, if you think it's worth it)?



Get rid of both. I don't think they contribute a lot to what your goal is. Also get rid of the color copy since the title is "New B&W Magazine".

Don Bryant

[Witold Grabiec]

Dave,
Nice work thus far with your magazine / web site. In my opinion a Gallery will work fine so long as it is in somewhat limited incarnation. What I mean images are hand picked before they end up on the site (I don't know how you envisioned it before). This will allow you to match the quality of submitted images to your own goal. At the same time you will get a better feel for what you to expect from some "vendors" and would give you an opportunity to suggest a more specific feature "performance" to specific photographers. I would also suggest to change the framing of the thumbnails. As neat as they are, I think they tend to overwhelm images within them.

As for the events/etc. I'd say yo have a lot on your hands right now and providing interesting content for instant gratification is more important. All of the other things require at least as much time and perhaps you will have it at some later point.

Again, nice work and you've got a steady visitor.

[vickersdc]

Finally the site is going through the update process, having been taken down by the service provider.

This was the first step in the process - the original site had to be removed to allow me to get a better web hosting agreement. The new site can then be uploaded and the domain pointed at the new server.

I'm currently waiting for some information about the new server before I can upload the version 2 site. It's slow going this update, but at least we have made some progress!

I'll keep you posted.

David.

[vickersdc]

As reported on Thursday, the old site has been taken down to make way for the new site. We had to take the old site down first as the service provider could not run two separate hosting services at the same time - as we cannot point the creativeimagemaker.co.uk domain name at two places at once.

As I'm sure you are aware, I've been very unhappy with this hosting provider and when they finally took down the site (four days late), I purchased a hosting plan with their sister company. With the monies out of the account, I got a response from the site that I would be sent information allowing me to start the process of uploading the new site.

By the end of Friday I still had nothing. I sent in a support call and I'm still waiting for a response.

So, as I write this, we have no site up and running, I can't upload the new site as I don't have the server information I need and I'm guessing that I won't get a response until Monday.

I've also asked for a refund as their customer support service is just appalling. I'll try and find a company that actually responds to their customers!

I'm hugely frustrated and disappointed by this setback - but rest assured that the project is still alive and well, and I'll get the magazine back online as soon as possible.

Thanks for your patience,
David Vickers.

[Witold Grabiec]

Dave,
I don't know what hosting package you're after, but there is a webhostingtalk.com forum that is arguably the best source of information on what, who and how in hosting, worldwide. I used that before I switch to HostGator and could not be happier. In case you're still running into issues, that host is worth checking, and their Fantastico will allow you to easily choose one of the CMS platforms, which I'm assuming is the direction you've decided on (Moodle?).

[vickersdc]

Hi Witold,

The new site is up - well, it's getting there!

Because of the nature of the site, I took the decision to go for a proper content management system - in the long run I think it will be better from a management point of view.

So, I went with a company called www.eukhost.com, Linux hosting with so many software options it took me about 2 days to decide what to select! Anyway, I do have some experience of Moodle so I've gone with that - but there's rather a lot of tweaking to do to get it looking nice!

I've uploaded some of the articles already and if you visit the site (at the moment) you'll have to login (top right of the screen) and then you'll get access to what's there (and you can keep track of the building up process).

There we go - I'm VERY happy with the new providers, their tech support are fabulous, the software works and now it's down to me to getting looking right before it's unleashed to the world for real.

Then we can build it up to be the best magazine for the traditional photographic community!

[vickersdc]

Just a quick reminder that the 'Image Within An Image" competition closes on Monday night (31st March)! Submit your entries this weekend to have a chance at winning the prize kindly donated by Fotohuis RoVo.

For more information, look at the Creative Image Maker website: http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk/mod/resource/view.php?id=25.

Thanks, and good luck!
David Vickers.

[vickersdc]

Hi All,

Just to let you know that I've improved the navigation on the Creative Image Maker website - you can now access the current weeks articles directly from the front page instead of having to go to the overall weekly view.

I hope it makes using the site even easier, as there have been a couple of comments in the past about finding your way around the site. As is the case with these things, it was an obvious solution that struck me like a bolt of lightning! I've also made it slightly more 'graphic', rather than just the plain ol' text that used to be there.

So, if you haven't been to the site for a while / at all - check it out.

Thanks,
David.

[vickersdc]

Creative Image Maker

Well, Creative Image Maker is one year old on the 13th January and we're still going, although even I have to admit that it's been a close run thing at times!

As it happens, we're not just still here, but we're now new and improved! Following several weeks of technical issues surrounding domain name servers and registration problems, the Creative Image Maker (http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk) website is back on air and has been tweaked to hopefully provide a nicer experience.

But, that's not all - Christopher Walrath has been working extremely hard on the production of a magazine in PDF format for you to download. The first magazine became available in December, and January's issue is also available for free download from the Creative Image Maker storefront (http://stores.lulu.com/creativeimagemaker/).

There's also a new photography challenge that we'd invite you to submit your images to; entitled 'Rebirth', you can find out more here (http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk/mod/resource/view.php?id=90).

There's a proper gallery function added on to the site, and we'll be using this to display some of the best images that are sent to us - want to see your work highlighted in the magazine? Send it in! There are also several future exciting articles in the pipeline, and as usual, we'd ask you to submit your ideas / articles as well.

So, despite the somewhat turbulent year, the magazine is here and still growing - and with your help and support it will continue to do so. You can contact me at d.vickers@creativeimagemaker.co.uk or email Chris for items to be included in the PDF magazine at c.walrath@creativeimagemaker.co.uk. Of course, you can still submit images, comments and articles to the original info@creativeimagemaker.co.uk email address.

Thank you for your support, we look forward to hearing from you! All the best for 2009.

David Vickers.

[Jim Michael]

I thought Pavel made some good points and was not being disrespectful. Several have commented on lack of a domain and domain-based email address. A key to good business is preservation of capital. Don't spend money where you don't have to when you are starting out. Keep that money available for the things you need. If that means using free Internet resources such as blogspot and Yahoo, fine. Upline I think I saw a reference to Lulu. It's a POD publisher. David might be on to a way to publish a magazine without incurring large startup costs by sending a PDF to Lulu (or other POD publisher) and allowing folks to order hard copies that Lulu prints on demand. Pretty cool stuff. Lastly Pavel comments on the blog format. Actually, David might be onto something here as well, with a magazine in a different format - it doesn't have to be in the same blog format, but it can be different from other magazine formats - perhaps it's the best of the blog content plus some stuff not available on the blog. That helps ensure two advertising revenue streams plus a bit from Lulu sales, so it doesn't have to be a Web vs. print media type of thing.

So, I'd cut David a little slack on the email/domain thing and help him with content, e.g. what's more important to you - articles (art vs. technique?), images, etc.

[vickersdc]

Well the title says it all really! It's great to get back in to the magazine again and after having to leave it to it's own devices around Sept '08, I started thinking about it again at the start of Dec '08.

Then Chris emailed me with the questions & answers and that just served to crystallise my thoughts further...

And so it was that I looked at building up a forum-style magazine - even went to the trouble of building it, got Chris involved and between we started to put articles in there and generally started to get the place tidy.

Then a few people were asked to comment on it - and the feedback was... "It's just another forum and we don't want that". The idea was to have articles put on that you could then comment on and pass information on to each other.

Chris & I decided to ditch the forum and I started to dust off the cobwebs from the http://creativeimagemaker.co.uk website. The Lulu storefront went up next and that gave us a great platform to distribute the PDF magazines that Chris is putting together (and they're really neat!). In fact, Chris has got some great things coming up in the magazine, so do keep an eye out for that.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to put together a 'special' - more details later, we're thinking about future competitions and I think that we might just have another member of the team to help out too.

I wish I'd done this last year (got a team together; although to be fair I did ask for help, but I guess the magazine just wasn't mature enough, or people were too tied up with other business) - anyway, a HUGE "THANK YOU" to Chris Walrath who stepped in last year and produced the first PDF magazine. Going forward, Chris and I are dedicated to keeping this all going and whilst I'm sure it's not going to be all plain sailing, we're looking forward to the challenge.

As for the other member of the team? Well, I've asked Rob Valine to produce a series of monthly articles for the mag.

All in all, I'm excited about the future of Creative Image Maker, and I hope you are too.

David.

[christopher walrath]

Yeah, we've done a lot hoping to garner a little more notice out there. After all we are bringing a film photography resource to the table. To date there has been little on the large format spectrum of things in the magazine, even though I had purchased a 4x5 last year and David has one of his own on the way Mine is finally tripod worthy so I hope to contribute more here as well.

So that being said, and not to take away from View Camera, et al., I would very much like to have a large format issue in the near future so if any of you would like to contribute technical articles (really needed and desired) and/or miniature portfolios of your work then David and I would gladly accept them.

Thank you for putting up with the announcements and everything and here's to LFForum.

[ric_kb]

glad you are staying in... came across this thread just today and found it worth reading because of the many "nay" sayers from a year ago. wish I needed a case example, this makes a good one. anyhow, best continuing success. solve the problems you see, not the ones your competitors provide. listen to the little voice of your customer.

[vickersdc]

Just to let you all know that the April edition of the CiM magazine is available for free download - Chris has put together a fabulous issue that is largely dedicated to pinhole photography (images, articles and even DIY!). We'd both like to thank all the contributors that made this issue possible.

The website also has articles on shooting fireworks, a reprint of an article by Peter Rowlands (editor of Underwater Photography magazine) about the Nikonos V camera and I continue my sagas with starting out in large format photography with a 100+ year old camera.

[vickersdc]

I guess it had to happen, but the CiM website has been hacked and malicious code left in a little undiscovered corner of the directory structure. Fortunately, it doesn't affect the actual display of articles and so on, it just turns the site into a play thing for a hacker to launch a) attacks on to other sites, b) or spam mail.

So, I'm going to try and fix it, but it may mean losing the site for a few days as I take it down and re-install. :-(

David.

[christopher walrath]

Well, looks I get to make the announcement this month.

The May issue of Creative Image Maker Magazine has hit the stands. In this month's issue we have an article on plate pouring by Ron Mowrey. We also have a cyanotype printing material comparison by Willie-Jan Bons, a push processing article by Phil Bryson, CiM's first installment of its new beginner's series 'Choosing your Gear' and a featured portfolio by, yours truly. Had to have something in there by the deadline. ;p

So check it out, link is in the sig. If anyone would like to contribute in the future, please email David for website related material at d.vickers@creativeimagemake.co.uk or myself for inclusion in the monthly .pdf issues at c.walrath@creativeimagemaker.co.uk