Alternative paper developer needed

[vinny]

I've used Nacco's Printol 12 for several years now with great results. A $13 bottle lasted me well over a year. I went to Freestyle for more and was informed that NACCO is out of business. I ended up with some clayton P20 which is 2x the price and recommends a 1:7 dilution. I haven't had the chance to print any negs that were printed with the Printol yet but results seem similar to previous prints. These developers are similar, right?
What's the closest equivalent to Printol 12 that's liquid, has long shelf life, and cheap?

thanks

vinny

[John Bowen]

Dektol....$13 should be 2 gallons stock, diluted 1:2 for 4 gallons working solution.... How many gallons of Printol did $13 buy?

[jnantz]

hi vinny

you might want to try ansco130 (forumulary 130 )
it doesn't cost too much, is easy to mix
and the stock solution lasts forever.
i get about 8 gallons a year, and do prints and film in it.

the folks at the formulary are top shelf too :)

john

[vinny]

Dektol....$13 should be 2 gallons stock, diluted 1:2 for 4 gallons working solution.... How many gallons of Printol did $13 buy?

Dektol is sold only in powder form afaik, costs about $6.50/gallon, must be mixed in hot water, lasts about 2 months in partially full container.

A gallon of printol made about 10 gallons of working solution at 1:10 for $13 and lasted for at least a year undiluted.

[John Kasaian]

hi vinny

you might want to try ansco130 (forumulary 130 )
it doesn't cost too much, is easy to mix
and the stock solution lasts forever.
i get about 8 gallons a year, and do prints and film in it.

the folks at the formulary are top shelf too :)

john

FWIW, I just mixed up a batch of Ansco 130 as john nanian suggested and...I'm liking it!:)

[David Karp]

Freestyle sells a variety of concentrated liquid chemistry under their Arista brand name. They have at least two levels of product: Arista Premium and Arista (I think). I believe, but do not know for sure that all of these are actually made by Clayton. For sure, the Premium line is made by Clayton. I think the Arista prices are pretty reasonable.

In general, liquid developers cost more than the powder versions.

[John Cahill]

Ethol LPD once published a system whereby a gallon of powder could be used to make up a gallon of working solution and a gallon of replenisher. I used the working solution according to directions, and even though it got so dark one had to tonque the print out of solution to see the image, it never stained. IIRC, one added about an ounce of replenisher for every ten or so 8x10 prints after the working solution got a bit slow. Just keep pouring the working solution back in the jug after a working solution. When the gallon of replenisher was used up, mix up another batch.

[j.e.simmons]

I'd recommend the Ansco 130, too. I've used the PF version, and I've mixed my own. I use it by diluting 1:1, then pouring the developer into two 1L glass bottles. I use one for my working developer, and at the end of every session, I top up the bottle with developer from the second bottle. When the second bottle is empty (usually more than a year later) I mix new. The stuff gets really dark sometimes, but it still works just the same.
juan

[Mark Sampson]

The only downside with Ansco 130 for me (apart from the upfront cost) is the three-minute development time. My prints don't look *that* much better in 130 than in Dektol, and I irrationally resent the extra time spent. But my tests over the last few years suggest that for modern cold-tone papers, the choice of print developers is not critical. So it was back to Dektol for me.

[vinny]

As i mentioned in my original post, i'm not interested in Powders, ie Dektol. I don't get to print that often and heating water, mixing, then waiting for a working solution to cool isn't what i'm looking for.
David, you are correct regarding Clayton and Arista. They didn't have the whole line in the store though.
Ansco 130 looks like it's about $36.00 per 4 gallons as apposed to printol which was $13 for about 10 gallons. The clayton P20 i picked up makes 7 gallons for $23. So far it's the best deal for price and convienence.

[Mark Sampson]

I guess I didn't read closely enough. When I mix Dektol, or other powdered developer, I then store the mixed concentrate in bottles sized so that 1 bottle of mix = one printing session. That means 1L Dektol makes 3 liters of working solution, good enough for one long printing session (for me anyway). The stored 1L bottles of stock have lasted up to 4 months un-used. I don't know exactly how long they'd last, kept away from air; I still haven't caught up from that enforced printing layoff, and I plan to work more regularly now that winter's here. You're right about the convenience of liquid developer. I've tried the Ilford dev but it's not cost effective for me. Happy printing, no matter what you choose...

[Bruce Barlow]

I mix a gallon of Dektol and decant into 16 oz bottles, leaving no air. Tightly capped, they've lasted at least a year. One bottle of stock plus two of water develops my 8x10 paper just fine for one printing session. If you calculate cost, it's the bargain basement, and in my tests consistently ranked as one of the best. Yeah, it's a powder, but I live with it easily, and mix it really hot.

[vinny]

I was looking for suggestions on similarly priced LIQUID developers similar to Printol 12 or the Clayton P20 i recently purchased. LIQUID! LIQUID!, not powder.

[Jim MacKenzie]

I really like Ansco 130. The thing I like the best about it is the durability of the stock solution. You can mix up many litres and keep them for even a year or two. Furthermore, the working solution lasts for several months.

Yes, you have to mix it from powder. That's the only disadvantage. Mix it up once a year to minimize the inconvenience.

Given the durability of the working solution I suspect you can more than make up for the higher cost per litre.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Clayton P20 has become my standard developer having switched from Dektol. I dilute it 1+6 and use either 2 minutes or 2.5 minutes depending on the paper. I think you will find it is a very nice developer that is economical and long lasting.

[John Kasaian]

I'm sad to hear of NAACO's passing! They also made a liquid D-76 that I liked a lot:(

[steve simmons]

Ethol's LPD is another developer that for me lasted longer in a tray than does Dektol.

Ansco 130 is one of my favorites because of its slight warm tone and long beautiful scale.

steve simmons

[Jason Miguel]

I just received a sample of Liquidol paper developer from Photographers formulary. 100ml makes 1000ml of working solution. Eager to test it out, I grabbed some of my 8x10 negs and began to print. Mixed at the recommended 1:9 dilution the effects were pleasing. Contrast was good and paper developed out in a little over 1 min using Ilford MGIV. It’s worth looking into more and seems to give results that equal Dektol.

[rippo]

this is what i use:

http://www.photowarehouse.biz/ullipade1gto.html

$11.95 for a gallon of concentrate, mix 1:5

and yes, it's liquid. :)

[Gene McCluney]

All photo chemicals start out as powders. You are wanting a pre-mix liquid concentrate. If you are willing to pay the premium to have someone else mix for you, then the above replies should give you guidance. A home-mixed (from powders) developer concentrate is not by its nature any more different in shelf-life than a pre-mixed one. It all depends on the choice of chemicals used in its formula. Home mixed Dektol is not particularly short life..in concentrate form, if kept in sealed bottles. The temperature of the mixing water is not critical. If you dilute your concentrate 1:2 with water, and you use cool water for your dilution, then the resulting tray solution should be just right, even if you make your tray solution immediately after you mix up the concentrate.

[chy]

Have you taken a look at Sprint chemistry?

http://www.sprintsystems.com/

Everything's liquid, dilution ratios in parts to make 10, eg. 1:9 where 1 part of concentrate is mixed with 9 parts of water to make a working solution.

Sprint might be more of an east coast thing as the founder taught college in Rhode Island. I used it for many years, still use it on occasion and the system has a devoted following.

[jnantz]

now that i see you like liquid developer,
i was just going to suggest this same thing.
the developer comes in 1 gallon cubes
and mixes very easily.

their fixer is rapid and very good too.

--john



Have you taken a look at Sprint chemistry?

http://www.sprintsystems.com/

Everything's liquid, dilution ratios in parts to make 10, eg. 1:9 where 1 part of concentrate is mixed with 9 parts of water to make a working solution.

Sprint might be more of an east coast thing as the founder taught college in Rhode Island. I used it for many years, still use it on occasion and the system has a devoted following.

[Scott Davis]

If you need warmtone prints, try the new Ilford Warmtone developer. It is a liquid, dilute 1:9, and it comes in 1 qt stock bottles. It lasts forever in stock, and a decently long time in the tray. I don't know what it costs, as I was given a case of both the Warmtone and the Cooltone to try by Ilford, and I'm still working through it (I have over 1/2 case of each). The Cooltone has been discontinued, so even if you can find it, not a lot of point in buying it as you won't be able to keep using it. The Warmtone developer will produce very little tonal shift on cooltone papers, so you can use it for both, depending on your need.

[Gene McCluney]

If you need warmtone prints, try the new Ilford Warmtone developer.

I think Ilford has just discontinued this developer.

[D. Bryant]

I would reccomend the P-72 formula if you can mix your own processing chemicals. Basically it is the phenedone - hydroquinone (PQ) version of D-72 (MQ metol hydroquinone). It is relatively inexpensive, the stock solution has a long storage life, it will last long in the tray, and for people allergic to metol it is an excellent substitute for Dektol or developers like Dektol.

Additionally it can produce warmer tones if diluted to 1:3 or 1:4, though this isn't a cool tone developer when used straight or 1:1. Another nice think about this developer is that it doesn't produce a greenish cast when used with certain papers. It is very similar to Ethol LDP, IMO.

I can post the formula if anyone wishes.

Don Bryant

[John Kasaian]

vinny,

Why not email nacco and see whats up with Printol? The website is http://www.naccochem.com
Cheers!

[GSX4]

Freestyle has a 5 liter container of Arista premium print developer for $26.29, but costs a lot to ship. Dilution wise, it is very economical. 1:9 and will give you 50 liters of dev total.

For warmtone developer, how about Agfa Neutol WA It's still available now that Agfa has outsourced their chemicals to a third party. Freestyle has it listed for $14.99 for 1.25 liters. This developer is my staple dev for all wramtone printing.