New Wista SP or Used Master Technika?

[kev curry]

I've recently received lots of useful information regarding the Master Technika from the good folks here on the forum. I was chasing one on ebay but to know avail. The thing is I've just discovered a decent deal on a new Wista SP Metal Field and going by all the previous threads I've read, it seems like a well built and very capable camera for mainly landscape work. If Im not mistaken I think It was described as a personal favorite by Steve Simmons. I'm unsure what to do.... New Wista SP or Used Master Technika? What do you think.......?

Best kev

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you don't need the rangefinder on the Master Tech, then you might look more at the Technika 2000 (or 3000 if you're buying new), which handles wide lenses more easily.

The Wista has less bellows extension built in (you can add more with attachments, but it's not as convenient as having a longer bellows), so if macro is something you want to do, you might lean toward Linhof. On the other hand, for landscapes, less bellows means less rail and support and usually a lighter camera.

Also, consider a Tech V or IV, to broaden your options for a used Technika. They are very similar to the current Master Tech. I use the V. The IV has a knob for the front rise that is harder to access with wide lenses than the ratcheting lever on the V, MT, 2000 and 3000. If you use the rangefinder, cams have to be calibrated to the body as well as the lens with the IV, and with the V and MT, the groundglass is zeroed, so that cammed lenses are interchangeable between bodies. It's a good idea to send the body in and have it calibrated anyway when you have new lenses cammed, so the zeroed groundglass is not as much of an advantage as it would seem, unless you own more than one camera body. The MT, 2000, and 3000 have a flap on the top of the body that can allow more front rise with the latest lenses from 72-90mm that have sufficient coverage to take advantage of that feature.

[Frank Petronio]

I've had the Tech V and the SP and they are "related" but different. The SP is very well built but considerably lighter and less robust than a Technika, but you could argue the Technika is overbuilt. Think of a Toyota compared to a Mercedes. But would you rather have a new Toyota or a 15-year old Mercedes? Even a nice used Master Tech can be 30 years old - the bellows do wear out, everything needs service, etc.

In normal use, the movement controls are different. Perhaps the Wista is more conventional, although I never figured out what the supposed "Micro Swing" did for me. The Wista VX doesn't have the Micro-Swing so it saves the $ and weight.

Once you use the rangfinder on a Technika you find more opportunities so it is a nice option to explore. Personally I use a Tech V.

[Bill_1856]

Either will do fine -- get whichever is less expensive.

[Brian Ellis]

There's a reason why photographers such as John Sexton, Bruce Barnbaum, Don Kirby, et al use a Linhof Technika. Technikas are the gold standard of large format fold-up field cameras in terms of smoothness of operation, fit, finish, build quality, etc. Some version of the Technika has been around for over sixty years and Linhof was building earlier models of LF cameras well before that. And you still see plenty of them being used today. I'm sure the Wista is a fine camera and if it has some features that make it more useful to you then by all means get it. But if it's just kind of a toss-up between a new camera vs. a used camera, as it seems to be from the nature of your question, then I'd get the Master Technika (I've owned a Tech V and a Master).

Apart from any of that, personally I'd prefer the Technika if for no other reason than the 15 1/2 inch bellows vs the 12 inch bellows on the Wista. I like to use a 300mm lens and I don't want to have to fiddle around with the Wista extension accessories to do it.

[Bill_1856]

One little item to consider. The Technika is built like a tank, but it does have one little Achilles heel -- the bellows. They are very thin (so you can use very short and very long lenses), and probably will have to be replaced every few years at considerable expense ($300-$400 in the USA). So be aware of this when buying a used Technika. Otherwise, they're pretty much bulletproof. (My Teck IV is about 50 years old, and is on its third bellows. I have Zeiss plate and folding cameras from the '20s which still have good bellows, and the bellows on Graflex cameras must be made of Indestructium.)

[neil poulsen]

What's the widest lens you expect to use?

I know that the Master, and I think the 2000 (not sure), have the hinged top that raises up, so that it doesn't interfere with raising shorter lenses. That's something that I don't think is available on the Wista.

[dpetersen]

Kev,
Personally, I use a Tech IV which was built in the late 50's. Still a very useful platform today. It has plenty of movements for me and allows the use of a 300mm lens. I have never replaced the bellows, but a previous owner did as it is not the original. If I were to buy a used camera, I think I would consider a Marflex CLA right away and you could be sure that all was OK. Mine has been serviced twice in the 15 years I have owned it-always by Marflex. Third party bellows are available and can be replaced by the user if you're at all handy.
Damn the farfegnugen-full speed ahead
DP

[Bob Salomon]

have to be replaced every few years at considerable expense ($300-$400 in the USA). So be aware of this when buying a used Technika. Otherwise, they're pretty much bulletproof. (My Teck IV is about 50 years old, and is on its third bellows.

So, in your case, every few years averages once every 16.66 years? Many cameras themselves don't last 16.66 years much less be repairable after 50 years.

[Bob Salomon]

What's the widest lens you expect to use?

I know that the Master, and I think the 2000 (not sure), have the hinged top that raises up, so that it doesn't interfere with raising shorter lenses. That's something that I don't think is available on the Wista.

So does the 3000.

[Eric Rose]

I use a 55mm lens on my Tek IV without any problems or fancy focusing dodads and top hinging whatevers.

[Bill_1856]

So, in your case, every few years averages once every 16.66 years? Many cameras themselves don't last 16.66 years much less be repairable after 50 years.

Bob, I don't appreciate the snide way in which you posted this remark.
I bought in the mid-1970s from a professional photographer's widow and have no knowledge of what he did before that. At that time I sent it to Marty Forsher for complete overhaul. So since then, that's THIRTY years, or a new bellows ($400) every TEN years.
As to which cameras are repairable after 50 years; my Crown and Speed Graphics, of about the same age, have held up better than my Technika; my 9x12 Zeiss Maximar from the 1920s is still working just fine, including the bellows. So tell me about the "factory" replacement parts situation for my Technika. It seems to me that you're always posting that parts are no longer available for this or that camera or accessory only a few years old.

[David A. Goldfarb]

The hinged flap isn't useful for lenses shorter than 72mm, because they are already inside the body, and the flap isn't hinged deeply enough to allow the standard to clear.

Lenses from 72-90mm can sit on the main focusing rail, so the flap lets you get some more front rise before the top of the camera body would otherwise hit the front standard or cut into the bellows. This only applies to lenses that have sufficient coverage to be able to use that much front rise (i.e., current Schneider and Rodenstock lenses in that focal length range), presuming you are shooting 4x5" and not rollfilm.

I use the wideangle focusing device with my 55 and 65mm lenses. Longer lenses don't need it. I'm guessing Eric is using his 55mm on a regular or recessed lensboard and just sliding the standard to focus, which can work fairly well, but the wideangle focusing device has a focusing screw that provides some more control.

[Bob Salomon]

[QUOTE=Bill_1856;296133 It seems to me that you're always posting that parts are no longer available for this or that camera or accessory only a few years old.[/QUOTE]

Sorry Bill, but I post that parts for Technika III and some Technika IV cameras are no longer available. Those parts from a Master that fit other models will fit but perhaps appear different then the original parts. Or the ground glass springs on early Technikas had one coil of spring while later models have two. Should you need to replace an old spring arm that used the single coil then that isn't available. But the newer arm will fit. However both arms would have to be replaced so there is equal tension.

As Graflex cameras were finally discontinued by their final owner in Japan several years ago we would have no idea as to the availability of new parts. Since there were so many owners of Graflex over the years; Singer, someone in Florida, a Japanese manufacturer, the original company in Rochester, etc. there may be someone sitting on a pile of parts that were liquidated. But who we would not know.

[Frank Petronio]

FWIW, if you can deal with the short bellows, you can install one of those inexpensive Crown Graphic bellows onto your Technika by exchanging the front and rear frames. I had a "beater" set up that way.

There are also $100 Chinese made replacement bellows listed on eBay.

I've always spent extra to have Marflex do it right, but you don't have to ;-)

[Bob Salomon]

FWIW, if you can deal with the short bellows, you can install one of those inexpensive Crown Graphic bellows onto your Technika by exchanging the front and rear frames. I had a "beater" set up that way.

There are also $100 Chinese made replacement bellows listed on eBay.

I've always spent extra to have Marflex do it right, but you don't have to ;-)

But you should be aware that some third party bellows will not compress enough to close the camera. Apparently some others do allow the camera to fold properly.

[Roy L Faverty]

Originally I bought a Sinar P back in the early 80s, it was a fine instrument but as my work and photography evolved it became apparent that I needed a metal field camera so about 20+ years ago I replace the Sinar with a Wista SP 4x5 Technical Metal Field Camera and I have never regretted the decission. The longer bellows issue is easily solved with a set of extension tubes from Wista. I have a convertable long lens set that requires an extended bellows, this bellows switching in the field is really cumbersome but the extension tubes neatly and conveinently solved the problem. So one bellows fits all lenses now. Wista is a fine and reliable camera at a fair price for a high level of craftsmenship.

[kev curry]

I don't really think the short bellows issue with the SP would present any real problems for my kind of shooting - 75mm to 210mm. If I decided to go longer in the future I feel comfortable that it could easily be solved with the set of extention tubes that Roy mentioned.
The analogy made by Frank P with the New Toyota or the Old Merc is worth some consideration. Don't really fancy the possibility of carrying out maintenance or replacing bellows on a senior Tech. I also discovered the SP's 5'X7' accessory back, plenty room there for options later! So the SP is looking like the favorite so far.

Appreciate all the input and good advice cheers.
Best regards
kev

[Bob Salomon]

I also discovered the SP's 5'X7' accessory back, plenty room there for options later!
kev

Discontinued so you would have to find a used one.

[kev curry]

Thanks Bob.