The $ 100,000 littman

[George Kara]

http://cgi.ebay.com/LITTMAN-VII-NATURA-LET-S-HELP-CALIFORNIA_W0QQitemZ290183780445QQihZ019QQcategoryZ15247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Yes this kook has lost his mind. This guy is desperate.

[David A. Goldfarb]

It seems like he's succeeded in getting you to notice the camera and post free publicity on the LF forum, even if no one makes a $100K donation to the California Wildlife Center.

[George Kara]

Hey David. Nothing like a good laugh though huh? Its fun and free.

[Peter K]

Looks like the old Polaroid rollfilm camera I've buyed for $20 :D

Peter K

[Walter Calahan]

If you read carefully, there's nothing in the listing that say how much of the $100,000 is actually going to California Wildlife.

Actually I've seen similar cameras, before they are converted in the style that Littman is copying, for less than 20 bucks. He claims to have patents on the design, but I know people who have converted their cameras long before he did.

[David A. Goldfarb]

"100% of the final sale price will support California Wildlife Center"

Right at the top of the item description.

[Brian Ellis]

"100% of the final sale price will support California Wildlife Center"

Right at the top of the item description.

Yeah, but with this guy who knows what he considers "support" of the Center. Saying the sale price will support the Center, rather than saying 100% of the sales proceeds will be donated to the Center, leaves plenty of wiggle room. "Support" of the Center could mean almost anything.

[Frank Petronio]

Littman gives crazy people a bad name.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Yeah, but with this guy who knows what he considers "support" of the Center. Saying the sale price will support the Center, rather than saying 100% of the sales proceeds will be donated to the Center, leaves plenty of wiggle room. "Support" of the Center could mean almost anything.

It's not his language, it's the language of Mission Fish, the clearing house for the donation. If you click on "100%" you can calculate how much will go to the charity for a $100K donation ($96,837.50), and how much Mission Fish will absorb as overhead ($3,162.50). Littman will receive only his publicity.

[Walter Calahan]

The camera we are donating is worth 6500.00 and yours free if you donate the specified sum to the charity.

And perhaps Billy Littman makes his $6500, which you cannot sell to anyone. He retains the exclusive right to buy the camera back from you at a price he sets.

[Alan Davenport]

My first response was dismissive. On second thought, I'm not sure this auction won't succeed. It's going to a good cause, it'll be tax deductible and there are indeed people who can use a deduction of that magnitude. How much any of us believe the camera may (or may not) really be worth is probably immaterial.

[George Kara]

So someone is going to donate 100K to a charity of Littmans choice, through ebay through the other organization just because littman suggests it? This is pure and simple another way for this guy to get free ebay advertising.

Ebay should have a requirement that states you are bound to sell the donated item for the final bid - period. Like a silent auction.

Sheesh. Maybe Ill put my Razzle on ebay for 1,000,000 USD and donate it to the green party in australia?

[David A. Goldfarb]

That's about the size of it.

[Gordon Flodders]

What a great form of cheap advertising, however the camera is not finished and may never be.
It kinda seems odd to me that in order to save the forests the guy covers a metal camera with wood? Is that lateral thinking or what :cool:

[Toyon]

I've got to wonder how envionmentally damaging it is for him to do his small part in destroying trees for their burlwood. These are typically large trees that are habitat for lots of interesting wildlife.

[Eric James]

I've got to wonder how envionmentally damaging it is for him to do his small part in destroying trees for their burlwood. These are typically large trees that are habitat for lots of interesting wildlife.

...and he is recycling a camera.

[Randy H]

hey mods, how about you ban all these people that keep resurrecting littman and his junk, and let the raz come back?

How long they gonna keep feeding and beating this dead horse?

[Ash]

Randy, I guess it's different considering this is discussing (bitching) about Litty, and before it was Litty and Razzle arguing amongst themselves within the community.

I'm not condoning either side, and I love my Razzle, but I guess it was an executive decision to ban both to avoid any bias, regardless of general consensus.

[Frank Petronio]

Dean was banned? That ain't right, and if you don't see the injustice in that then you're... wrong. He never did anything but make awesome camera conversions, it was Litttman who harrassed him online wherever he went.

[Ash]

Frank, back on a few of my Razzle threads there are a bunch of deleted posts where the taunting got too much for Dean and I believe he retaliated. I'm not sure what happened in the privacy of the PM and email systems, but I heard from Dean shortly after when he told me he was banned. There had been a previous 'cooling off' suspension for both of them, so I think it boiled down to the recurring fights between the two people. Littman is mentally unstable, and Dean is a great guy. We all know that :)

[Greg Lockrey]

Dean was banned?

Say it ain't so!

[Ash]

Catching up on your blog Frank -

"So I need to spend some time downloading more Tool and fortifying my system to withstand the abuse of all those upcoming energy drinks and drive-thru coffees…."

:D :D I'm a huge TOOL fan, saw them at Download in Donington a little while ago. Amazing band :)

[Ash]

Okay so I was going to start a new thread and realised you lot would miss it if it was in Off Topic:

03 JUNE 2007

Hi Ash......seems I have been banned for one month for opposing that fiend Littman......he really gets my blood boiling with his rantings.
He is most certainly the craziest guy I've ever known and a complete PITA!
You will have to contact me here as my messages on LFPF cannot be accessed until July 2nd.

I really tried to keep my bottle, but Saturday night he started ranting, despite receiving a warning from Tuan, (the forum boss).

He is nothing short of an ill mannered buffoon in my opinion and should be banned for life.........

02 OCTOBER 2007

I sent Ralph Barker (moderator) a note to keep an eye on
Littman.....my guess is he's out to sabotage the thread prior to Episode 20 :-(

It's always amazed me how he gets everything so screwed up.

Nothing would surprise me about Littman. I won't chime in, then I
shouldn't get banned for a month, but I'll still be watching.


16 OCTOBER 2007


Did you notice my farewell to LFPF? Tuan has
banned me permanently.......getting involved with
Littman always reaches a sorry end. >:-o

16 OCTOBER 2007

Apparently any mention of Littman is
enough...That guy has long tentacles and screams
LITTigation at the drop of a hat.

I told Tuan, (he owns LFPF) that he should wear
part of the blame....he allowed the fellow back
on.....immediately tried to sabotage the thread....

You did a sterling job of taking him to
task.....He now refers to you as 'Spelling Bee' :-D

He never gives up.

Cheers, Dean.

EDIT: Farewell post:


[Bid Farewell]
It is with much sorrow to learn that I am to be banned from making future postings.....I figure all those who have shared in Ash's excitement will know exactly why

Cheers to all, Dean Jones.
I hope Dean doesn't mind me posting this correspondence online. He has nothing to prove, and I would like everyone to get the clear picture considering it wasn't exactly publicised.



Considering the long-running history, I guess that's why Dean got banned. Fortunately he still answers his emails ;)

[Frank Petronio]

Well Dean should learn to ignore Littman but has to be hard not to respond when he goes out of his way to disparage his competitors. It's clear cut and obvious that Littman is unhinged and shame on this forum for caving in to his worthless threats.

Oh yeah, and Tool rocks, especially when you are driving through the heartland of the USA -- Meth Lab country!

[Gordon Flodders]

I think the offer of $1000 reward for each non Littman built Polaroid conversion that may lead to infringement proceedings may prove quite lucrative. There's probably a thousand or more of those cameras around so that amounts to at least million bucks! This deal will have to be financed somehow, maybe the sales of wood coated cameras will provide the funding. I'm also mystified as to how a Certificate of Design could be granted for a Polaroid camera that's now forty seven years old :confused:

[Alan Davenport]

...the offer of $1000 reward for each non Littman built Polaroid conversion that may lead to infringement proceedings may prove quite lucrative.

Or maybe he's just trying to buy up all of the conversions that predate his patent?

[jnantz]

if the donation is mentioned on ebay
it goes through mission fish, which is linked to ebay ...
the money is sent to them, not the seller ...

i have been doing homework to donate parts of my ebay sales
to a food and heat bank this winter ...
it is a well regulated section of ebay, and i don't doubt at all, if the camera sells
that all the funds will go to the organization he mentions.
ebay and the sell will both get into trouble otherwise

[Gordon Flodders]

if the donation is mentioned on ebay
it goes through mission fish, which is linked to ebay ...
the money is sent to them, not the seller ...



Well at least Mission Fish is not fishy.

[Lightbender]

Weird stuff.. I thought usually when people would donate an item for charity they let it go for whatever the auction finishes for. I dont think anyone will donate $100,000 to get a $500 camera 'valued' at $6500. Now if they were bidding on an Orange County Chopper.. that would be a different story!

[Renato Tonelli]

If we don't stop talking about this, we may be subjected to a 5,000-word post by Mr. Littman. It may be too late already. Oh, the horror! Fellow photographers, countrymen, I implore you: not another word.

[Randy H]

This whole thing makes him look foolish.:rolleyes:

Quite the contrary. Makes him look like a pretty smart business man. Look at all the publcity and advertising he is getting from all the stupid rants and endless posts regarding his product. And how many "hits" on his website have come from "concerned" people on this forum? And all for free. Does not matter if his product is top-notch or garbage. As I have always told my kids, that if you go in the back yard, we have two huge dogs. And as nature compels, they leave their "products" in the yard. If you see a pile, and just walk around it and leave it laying, it is indeed still s**t, but as it is, it is tolerable. If you take a stick and start stirring it up, pretty soon you got sh*t all over the place, and all over you, and it stinks. Best thing to do would have been to let it lie. Yep, it is still sh**, but at least it "didn't" stink so bad......

[Frank Petronio]

Yeah Littmann has probably sold more Razzles and other Polaroid 110 conversions for the other guys than any advertising they could have ever done on their own ;-)

[Gordon Flodders]

If we don't stop talking about this, we may be subjected to a 5,000-word post by Mr. Littman.

We won't as luck has it. He is banned. :p

[cowanw]

I joined this forum after the posting wars that resulted in Mr. Littman's ban.
Clearly people have strong feelings.
But I do not think you all should be dissing someone who cannot respond.
Regards
Bill

[cowanw]

Commercial enterprises routinely offer their products as incentives to charities and out of it they get only advertising or the positiveness of social responsibility.
The value of a charity donation is usually not related to the product.
The subject of comment of the listing is certainly fair play. Opinions on the product may be fair play ( particularily if you have used one), but that is not really what we are discussing here.
Rudeness based on previous postings and not related to the ebay listing is unfair and unseemly.
stupid, petty, shit, junky, garbage, mentally unstable, unhinged, kook.
He certainly generates strong opinions. The apparent animosities may be justified.
I am not commenting on the validity of the opinions, merely suggesting that it is unsporting to trash someone who can no longer respond, in a post not directly related to the previous postings that had him expelled.
I have read the old posts (out of purient interest) and some of the comments in this thread have the nastiness found there.
I love the community of this forum but I do not think the tone of this thread is becoming.
Regards
Bill

[Gordon Flodders]

I am not commenting on the validity of the opinions, merely suggesting that it is unsporting to trash someone who can no longer respond

Littman shows his true colours here: http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=littmanphotodesign

When it comes to 'trashing' he reigns supreme.

[harrykauf]

I think the whole purpose is to make his prices look less inflated. And its already working.
quote from a question on that auction site:
"You asking for $100.000 and the camera is worth $6500."
Win for Litmann...next to $100000 the $6500 figure looks indeed reasonable.
But we all know what you can actually get for $6500 in the real world.

[Ash]

If nothing else, I would refuse to purchase from somebody who blatantly uses the term "Spastic" on his 'about me' page.

If you place a racist terminology for Negro, you'd have uproar.

[cowanw]

If nothing else, I would refuse to purchase from somebody who blatantly uses the term "Spastic" on his 'about me' page.

If you place a racist terminology for Negro, you'd have uproar.

While I could not agree with you more, things can be very complicated.
To some, Negro is a racist terminology for African-American or Black.
I admired your recent and admirable defense of the linguistically complex.
I still do not think we need to denigrate (:rolleyes: ain't English great) people here no matter how much they do it to themselves.
Regards
Bill

[John O'Connell]

So we now have someone defending the politeness and decency owed to Guillermo/ William Littman. I thought I’d never live to see this day.

My favorite Littman episode:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:mLeYH5d6kxgJ:photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg%3Fmsg_id%3D00694G+littman+guillermo&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

Middle-period Littman:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:r_q4DWLBYKgJ:photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg%3Fmsg_id%3D00BYEU+littman+guillermo&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us

[Gordon Flodders]

How could anyone with such an appalling behaviour record possibly give a hoot about California?

[Michael Graves]

One other thing. Littman goes on about patent infringment. So I was wondering, where does things stand when he is using a Polaroid 110 camera and then only modified it? Can you call it a Littman camera, or just a polaroid camera modified by Littman. Why even mention the $100k Littman for sale, when it is not HIS very own design in the first place. Seems like the credits should be shared if the camera were sold (he only modified it, and is not the original designer of the body)! Adding some components to it to make it a 4x5 doesn't make it HIS camera. I wonder, does it say Polaroid on the camera, or Littman (don't own one, so curious). He doesn't even own the equipment to build it from scratch....shees. To charge what he does to modify it..hmmm. I could get a nice Fotoman 612 for that including a lens. (new).

Yeah, well...

I paid $79.00 plus shipping for my Crown a year ago. That's all I need. If I had a hundred grand to throw around it'd go into paying down my mortgage. Not buying another toy.

[Gordon Flodders]

One other thing. Littman goes on about patent infringment. So I was wondering, where does things stand when he is using a Polaroid 110 camera and then only modified it? Can you call it a Littman camera, or just a polaroid camera modified by Littman. Adding some components to it to make it a 4x5 doesn't make it HIS camera. I wonder, does it say Polaroid on the camera, or Littman (don't own one, so curious). He doesn't even own the equipment to build it

Every Littman I have ever seen has a Horseman 4x5 back attached to a CB103 Polaroid packfilm holder, the idea borrowed from a Four Designs Polaroid 110B conversion, nothing very exciting or original. It doesn't even have a ground glass, however it does have a Pas Par Hasard sticker.

Somebody told me that this means Quite by Accident :p

[Juergen Sattler]

Every Littman I have ever seen has a Horseman 4x5 back attached to a CB103 Polaroid packfilm holder, the idea borrowed from a Four Designs Polaroid 110B conversion, nothing very exciting or original. It doesn't even have a ground glass, however it does have a Pas Par Hasard sticker.

Somebody told me that this means Quite by Accident :p

Actually it means "Not by accident"

[Dave Parker]

Would you guys get over it!

Geeze, mention his name and we have a Masters Degree dissertation! This is ridiculous! What a waste of time and energy...

Go out and take pictures!!! The Market will determine how successful he is!

Just remember, he has got more publicity the last 4 days because of the rants posted here, than he would have got in a lifetime of paying for ad's!

:eek:

Dave

[SAShruby]

Close this thread!

[Frank Petronio]

It's fun to bitch.

And maybe this thread will send a few new people Dean's way... not many people are really going to drop the $ on a Littman after reading this, PR or not.

[Dave Parker]

Van,

Even if only one person buys a camera due to the fact his name is showing up in the search engines because of this thread, then he wins, and really there is far more information out there then needs to be about this topic, even bad publicity will generate sales sometime...hate him or love him, having long discussions about him every six months does nothing but make people curious, and some of them will actually buy because of it...as far as the auction, myself agree with many others, it was a silly one...and I will read and comment on what ever subject I want to as does everybody else

[Frank Petronio]

Yeah but it is MORE likely that a potential Littman buyer will go for a Razzle/Dean Jones or some other conversion because of threads like these, so in a way we are helping guys like Dean out....

[Dave Parker]

Van,

Yes, you have quoted me correctly and I did say it, and I expressed my opinion on the subject, just as you have. Because I had a bit of extra energy to waste when I posted. Just one of my opinions, but mine don't carry anymore weight than yours does.

:D

Dave

[Curt Palm]

so not knowing teh fine details of ebay, what would the listing fee be for a $100K item and do you only have to pay the listing fee if the item sells?

[Gordon Flodders]

I have a few of photos of my Littman, I think it's an early version. Maybe I won't get $100,000 and not being too keen on the stick on rubber stuff I will probably replace it with something else, but will that depreciate its value?

I took the top off to adjust the rangefinder.

[Gordon Flodders]

Amazingly I just sold my old Littman, seems the photos may have done it. Thanks to all who made offers, despite the fact some were a little low and nowheres near $100,000 :D

[Ash]

LOL...

So who's proven right here? Bashing Littleman and somebody ends up selling one of his cameras? ;)

[Gordon Flodders]

If only you knew who bought it :D

I swore not to tell.

[Gordon Flodders]

Big Shot with matching Voodoo Doll. Hilarious gag :D

Check Ebay item 270198095751

[DW Ludwick]

I have never laughed so hard. And look who has the first bid.......

[Alan Davenport]

I'm definitely watching that auction!

[Eric James]

Ya'll are obviously jumping to conclusions here - saiz in big bold green letters:

"Any resemblance to persons living, dead, or should be dead, are purely coincidental"

:rolleyes:

[Frank Petronio]

Best auction ever ;-)