Schneider 360/5.5 Tele-Xenar Mounting

[Jim Mitchell]

I'm new so I hope my question makes sense. I just bought a Schneider 360/5.5 Tele-Xenar lens off ebay for my Wista 45 SP. It isn't built like other large format lenses that I have seen. Now I'm wondering if I wasted my money.

It has a fairly large backing ring and a built-in apeture but no shutter. I understood that it would take a Copal No 3 shutter but I don't see how it will fit since it looks like the rear element is glued on. Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jim Mitchell

[jetcode]

Jim, it sounds like it will cost you some cash to get this lens mounted, last I heard Copal 3 shutters were $300+ and then there is the mounting charges provided they can access the lens. Best bet is to sell the lens, you won't want to mount a Copal 3 on a Wista. The best tele for that camera is a Fujinon 400mm. I had that lens on a Wista RF camera and it's flange distance is 272mm which is perfect for the 300mm bellows the SP and RF come with standard.

[Jim Mitchell]

Thanks for your rapid response and good advice. After noting the size of the lens and a picture of a Wista lens board with a #3 hole I was skeptical if it would fit within the bellows. I'll look into a Fujinon 400mm. It must be a Telephoto? Thanks very much for the advice. Jim

[Ole Tjugen]

That Tele-Xenar is more likely to fit in a Compound #3 than a Copal #3...

[Peter K]

The older Tele-Xenar's have a conical front-piece, it fits in a Compound III shutter. The newer one with the straight front barrel fits in the Copal 3 and in the newer Compur 3, Compur electronic 3 etc.

Peter K

[jetcode]

yes, the 400mm is a tele design and quite sharp but little room for movement

[David A. Goldfarb]

Some of these were adapted for other cameras, like Exacta, and could be complicated to adapt for LF. If you just have a Tele-Xenar in barrel meant for a camera like a Speed Graphic or Graflex reflex camera, it makes more sense to sell it and buy one in a Compound shutter, since they are fairly common and not too expensive (less expensive than remounting your lens in a shutter).

[Jim Mitchell]

I'm really impressed with your prompt responses and knowledge. I am beginner even though I have had my Wista 45 SP for around 15 years because I have not used it very much but hope to now that I'm retired.

I bought this Schneider 360/5.5 Tele-Xenar lens because it fit my budget and the flange distance on my Wista 45 SP is only has around 300mm (11.5 in). The SN is 12130711 so I think it was born around 1972 and the glass really looks good but I'm not sure if it is multicoated or not. It is really heavy too. I'm not sure what a compound 3 shutter looks like but I'll be looking. When mounting this lens on a shutter should the rear element come off the lens? If not the heavy weight will probably all be on the front of the lens board? That doesn't sound good. I would guess that the front element could be considered conical?

I looked on the web but could not find a Fujinon 400 T lens for sale.
Thanks again for all the kind advice and have a good Thanksgiving where ever you are. Jim

[Ole Tjugen]

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/pdf/tele_obj_67.pdf

I couldn't find a 1972 brochure, but the 1967 one shows a Tele-Xeanr in Compound shutter. By 1980 the Compound was replaced with the Copal, of course with different threads...

[Jim Mitchell]

Hi Ole
Thanks for the information. The brochure gives me an excuse to dust off my scientific german book. The photo on the brochure is almost like the lens that I bought. You can see another lens like the one I purchased on ebay under the search "Large Format Lens" - it is black with what looks like brass colored aperture and front ring but it is actually chrome colored.

The photo on your the brochure looks like the rear element should screw off but mine is very tight. I have read that the Nikor 360 Telephoto is a good lens. I missed one on ebay last week that sold for around $1,100. I guess it really is less expensive to buy what you want the first time. Live and learn. Thanks again, jim

[Jim Mitchell]

After some reading I see that Copal #3 shutters come in two sizes.

The way I interpret the literature the Copal #3 P/N 3-585 with threads M58-P0.75 corresponds to 58mm OD threads and 0.75mm/thread pitch. Second, the copal #3S P/N 3-567 with threads M56 P0.75 corresponds to 56mm OD threads and 0.75mm/thread pitch. Did I interpret the literature correct??

I finally got the front element off my Schneider 360/5.5 Tele-Xenar lens and the male threads measured 56mm OD and, as close as I could tell, a thread pitch is 40 TPI which corresponds to around 0.635mm/thread.

Therefore, if I measured correctly, will the 360/5.5 Tele-Xenar lens screw into either of the Copal #3 shutters. My guess it that the threads are not correct and neither shutter will work. What do you think??? Then how can I find a shutter that will fit. I'm not excited about buying a compound shutter with paper shutter blades.

I'm beginning to think that Jetcode had the right idea to sell it and buy a Fuji 400 T with a shutter already installed.

Thanks, Jim

[Ole Tjugen]

If it's 40 tpi, it will fit in a Compound #3. (55.69mm x 40 tpi).

Not all Compound shutters have paper blades - all the 3's I've seen have had metal blades.

[Iskra 2]

It might be more cost effective to buy a Speed Graphic that has an operational focal plane shutter. My barrel mount 360 Tele Xenar works ok with a homemade lensboard. Those old guys knew how to save a buck.:)

[Jim Mitchell]

I have also came to the conclusion that it would be to expensive to try to mount this lens on a good shutter. I'll start saving my pennys for something like a Nikon 360 Tele lens or another option is to add an extension rail and extension bellows to the Wista 45SP and pick up a non-Tele lens. Thanks for your help. Jim

[Gene McCluney]

I have also came to the conclusion that it would be to expensive to try to mount this lens on a good shutter. I'll start saving my pennys for something like a Nikon 360 Tele lens or another option is to add an extension rail and extension bellows to the Wista 45SP and pick up a non-Tele lens. Thanks for your help. Jim

There are lots of Schneider 360mm telephoto lenses that pass thru ebay, and most of them are mounted in a shutter. This is a good lens, and you will more likely find one of those than a Nikkor. Another brand that is often overlooked is Komura. They made 400mm and 500mm telephoto lenses mounted in Copal 3 shutters for 4x5. I have both and they are fine lenses. I purchased both of those thru ebay. All of the above mentioned lenses will work with the bellows extension found on your average Crown Graphic or Super Graphic press camera, so they will work for all 4x5 field cameras, I would think.

[philbed]

Dear All,
I have a 360 mm Tele-Tessar (SN 125XXXXX) mounted on a Compur 3 shutter. I use it on my Shen Hao 4x5 view camera. It's an amazing lens. I have rent a 360 mm Nikkor to compare with the Tessar and see no difference on the prints.
BUT the Shen-Hao (and maybe the wista) is not enough rigid for the Tele. The negs are not as sharp as the one I shoot with my Sinar F.

[Jim Mitchell]

That is helpful information. My Wista 45SP is a metal camera and I would expect it to handle a telephoto like the 360mm but am not sure. Thanks for your input. Jim