Tripod head for 4x5 -- recommendations?

[Bill_1856]

Although I covet a Linhof #3663 head, at $750 it's out of the question. Would a Bogan 468MG be a good alternate? (It's "only'" $302, and weighs several ounces less than the Linhof.)

[Former Member 8144]

Hi Bill,

I'd say it depends a lot on the work you do.
If you do any architectural work then a geared head is, I think, invalubale.
I use the manfrotto 410 geared head..a great combination of precise movement and not too heavy.
For location work, although I'd prefer the precise movements of the geared head I use an acratech ball head simply as it so lightweight and fairly compact but still strong enogh for a 54/hasselblad with heavy lens etc...but would rather a pan/tilt haed if there was one that was strong+light+small enough.

Marc

www.marcwilson.co.uk

[Ron Marshall]

As Mark said, it depends. I have both a Sinar pan tilt, which is ideal for the Sinar, and an Acratech, which is lighter for hiking. Since I currently use a Toho for hiking, if I was to buy now I would buy something even lighter than the Acratech.

[Bill_1856]

Landscapes, mostly -- near the truck. I think that I've probably been overly influenced by seeing that KQED Video of Roman Loranc with his Technika on a #3663. He makes everything look so natural and easy.

[Matus Kalisky]

Bill, I got pretty much beaten up Linhof 3D head that works perfectly for me. They usually go for around $200 in a good condition. The head is rather compact and weights 800g what I find aceptable (I was considering the geared head from Manfrotto - 410 that weights 1.2kg). The camera attaches with one screw that has a good grip on the round platform with cca 2 inch diameter so you do not need any fancy quick release system. It works well for my tachi with lenses up to 400mm (tele). You may also consider the GItzo G1270M or G1370M low profile magnesium 3-way heads.

[john collins]

Hello Bill,

I'm in the same boat. I think that the Linhof 3663 is the head to get and hopefully will be in a position to get one soon enough. Buying a less expensive head when you have identified the optimum choice can easily become a false economy, I try not to put myself in that position. In the case that it remains completely impractical to spend enough to get the 3663 (and after all, making images is the point) I will buy a Gitzo 2270M. At $285.00 and 1.7 lb. the drawback is the long handles. I don't like ballheads very well for view cameras as it is difficult to make changes on one axis at a time.

[Former Member 8144]

Agreed John,
I've never really got how others use ballheads with 54 successfully...I have yet to find a light, pan head tilt that does not have too long 'arms' but still holds the 54 cameras steady...so on far location where my manfrotto geared has been too heavy I've so far used the ballhead..it can work but it is a pain!
I've also used the gitzo 2270M low profile pan tilt head but it really was fairly bulky with the long handles.
So i'm still on the look out for what is basically a 2270 or similar but with short compact handles.

Marc

[john collins]

Hey Marc,

I have put up with a ballhead for years - time to make this more efficient. What do you think about severe shortening of the handles on a 2270M? Do you think they would be accessable enough when using a field camera with a flat wide base?

[Former Member 8144]

Hey Marc,

I have put up with a ballhead for years - time to make this more efficient. What do you think about severe shortening of the handles on a 2270M? Do you think they would be accessable enough when using a field camera with a flat wide base?

..so you mean get the linhof!!

really though that is the problem.
The plate on the 2270 has to be big to support the cameras but its just the handles that are the problems.
I guess you'd have to mount the camera you use and mark the handles as short as you dare...and then shorten the handles but in a way that allows you to replace the grips...thinking before you cut, "will I get enough leverage with these shortened grips", as they were made that way for a reason!
I dont have that head any more so can't look at it but i assume the grips can be prised off and replaced onto the shortened tubes?

It will pretty much mean you won't be able to use any cameras with a larger base than the one you model it on but if you already use a flat base field camera that shuld not be a problem...but those dreams of a 10x8 on your gitzo head are out the window!

sorry Bill if this is hijacking your thread...but it may glean a solution or you!

Marc

[timparkin]

There is a UK photographer called Joe Cornish who uses a BH55 ballhead in all the recent pictures I've seen of him (he has mentioned that it's the only ballhead he would use with 54)

Tim

[Preston]

I am using a Kaiser 'Medium' ball head with my Manfrotto 3221WN pod and Tachihara 4x5. It took a little practice along with fine tuning of the tension/drag adjusting knob for me to be able to quickly level the camera. I use an Arca-Swiss plate, as well.

This head is beefy, not too heavy, and ably supports my Tachi with a 300mm. If I remember correctly the cost was about $200.

-PB

[john collins]

Marc -

Yes, for a direct and lasting solution, get the Linhof.

The Gitzo handles are on such shallow angles that I am afraid that with shortened handles it would be a problem to fit ones hand under the base plate of most field cameras to loosen and tighten the head. Perhaps there are handles designed for other purposes that would solve the problem - but that would drive the price up and could drive the weight up.

Well I'm convinced, see "... get the Linhof" comments.

[Former Member 8144]

There is a UK photographer called Joe Cornish who uses a BH55 ballhead in all the recent pictures I've seen of him (he has mentioned that it's the only ballhead he would use with 54)

Tim

I think any ballhead can work but you do need to set it up so it has the maximum friction at the point of movement so you can almost push the camera in the three directions you want against the friction.
Do different ball heads have differnet levels of adjustment of the friction?
Is this where the rrs one comes into its own?
Or does it have two way control like the uber arca B2?

Marc

[uniB]

I saw Mr Cornish on Friday and he was bigging up the Manfrotto 410 geared head, although he was suggesting the build quality could be better.


There is a UK photographer called Joe Cornish who uses a BH55 ballhead in all the recent pictures I've seen of him (he has mentioned that it's the only ballhead he would use with 54)

Tim

[Former Member 8144]

Yes the 410 is almost perfect...its fairly compact, fairly light (1.22kg) and gives you total geared control in all the three important directions...but could be better built.
In fact I'm very surprised no other manufacturer makes something similar.

It works perfectly for a dslr in architectural work and also for a 54 for all work...its just not as light and compact as some of the ball heads/low profile heads...but for anything but long hike work I think its worth the extra weight...but unfortunately I also do lots of long hike, top of the mountain walk shoots so really am also looking for something lighter and more compact than does an equally good job.

I hope some of this is usefull to the O.P.

Marc

[Former Member 8144]

thought I'd post this picture showing the acratech against the 410 geared head in cas eit's helpfull.

[uniB]

Isn't it difficult to do precise movement with a ball head like the actatech? That's what I like about the 410 and why I'm pretty much sold on the idea of one. It is a bit weighty though for long hiking.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I thought you were an ardent Tiltall devotee, Bill.

[Former Member 8144]

Isn't it difficult to do precise movement with a ball head like the actatech? That's what I like about the 410 and why I'm pretty much sold on the idea of one. It is a bit weighty though for long hiking.

Completely agree.
That is why as I say I use the 410 wherever possible and am currently looking for a replacement lightweight (ballhead) for my acratech for the really long trips, and dslr use.

Marc

[Kirk Gittings]

My favorite is the Bogen 410 geared head for architecture for the precise, methodical, leveling and the 468MG Hydrostatic Ball Head with RC4 Rapid Connector for quick draw landscape. It is lighter and super fast to set up for landscape and I don't need the leveling precision. Both will hold a 4x5 with a long lens effortlessly.

[Frank Petronio]

If I did serious architecture then the geared Bogen heads would be invaluable. The 410 I had was sloppy but somewhere online are instructions on how to tighten them up. Also you would probably want to do some surgery to use an alternative to the Bogen plate system or suck it up and accept that you have to use the world's worst quick release plate....

The Linhof 3-D head is my favorite now, I have used most of the various Gitzos, the Bogen 410, several Arca balls... It is very compact, solid, and the levers are ideal for travel -- nothing to get wacked or bent.

It is sized for medium format and small to medium sized 4x5. About the same as an Arca-Swiss B1 or the Bogen 410 in that regard, good on a #3 Gitzo tripod. I would not want a long monorail or 8x10 on it, although they would work in a pinch.

I think I paid around $400 for a used one from German eBay. It's recent, black, but I think the older ones are probably just as good, just different cosmetics.

It is also liberating to be free of those damn Arca plates that everyone seems obbsessed with. Just use the simple screw ;-)

[Mick Noordewier]

I'm far happier with the 410 than with ballheads for 45. They can be tightened up with an allen wrench in each of the 3 axis controls. Mine, however, has become somewhat stiff...does anyone know a straightforward way of lubricating or adjusting tension?
-Mick

[Uri Kolet]

Just returned from 2 weeks in Bryce,Zion,Capitol Reef, and both Antelope Canyons with a Toyo 45A2 plus Nikon gear atop a Velbon CF535 w/Manf.410 head. Worked fine.

[Jim C.]

I'm new to 4x5 photography, but in outfitting my Cambo NX, I purchased a Cullmann Magnesit 35 that I'm quite pleased with especially since it was on sale at Adorama.

[Marko]

How about Arca Swiss Z1? Anybody here using it?

[uniB]

I was looking at the 468MGRC2, it looks good on paper and it's 10kg load capacity should be fine with my diddy Ebony 4x5, and it uses the same base plates I already have. I'm put off by the reportedly rubbish base plates on the 410, not so bothered for carrying out surgery on it to get it usable, and it is big.


My favorite is the Bogen 410 geared head for architecture for the precise, methodical, leveling and the 468MG Hydrostatic Ball Head with RC4 Rapid Connector for quick draw landscape. It is lighter and super fast to set up for landscape and I don't need the leveling precision. Both will hold a 4x5 with a long lens effortlessly.

[Former Member 8144]

I'm far happier with the 410 than with ballheads for 45. They can be tightened up with an allen wrench in each of the 3 axis controls. Mine, however, has become somewhat stiff...does anyone know a straightforward way of lubricating or adjusting tension?
-Mick

Hi Mick,
Funny,
I just noticed yesterday a bit of stiffness on one of the controls and am going to look into ways of lubrication/loosening, etc.

Frank, when you say the linhof 3-d head..is that the 3663 3 way levelling head, or another slightly older linhof model?

Marc

[Frank Petronio]

3-WAY LEVELLING HEAD
003663
This head combines total flexibility and light weight with extremely compact size and maximum stability. Eccentric locking levers positively secure the camera at any angle. Holds cameras with tele photo lenses and view cameras up to 5x7", especially suitable for precise camera adjustment in copy work. Tilt motions and pan rotation lock separately. Top plate and base dia. 77mm with 1/4" (051644 spare) and 3/8" (052709 spare) special camera screw. Height 90mm, weight 800g.

B&H is $754.96 USD :eek:

[Bill_1856]

I thought you were an ardent Tiltall devotee, Bill.

Hi David -- Happy Thanksgiving.
I am definitely a TILTALL proponent when weight/price/rigidity/reliability are concerned. It remains the standard against which one must look when considering buying anything else.
But that doesn't mean that I have not accumulated a closet full of tripods and heads for various duties. For example, when weight is a determining factor and cost is not, there may be better alternatives.
Bill

[David A. Goldfarb]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too, Bill.

I ended up selling one of my Tiltalls but still have one as my medium-sized tripod. I've got it down to three tripods, a studio stand, and a copy stand, four heads counting the Tiltall.

[Kirk Gittings]

I was looking at the 468MGRC2, it looks good on paper and it's 10kg load capacity should be fine with my diddy Ebony 4x5, and it uses the same base plates I already have. I'm put off by the reportedly rubbish base plates on the 410, not so bothered for carrying out surgery on it to get it usable, and it is big.

Frankly the RC4 plates are the best I have ever used, I tried them because some very good LF photographers, Merg Ross and Eric Biggerstaff, I knew swore by them, after trying them I completely switched over to them. We are talking about two different plates RC2 vs. RC4. I have never used the RC2 plates. These are the two heads I am recommending.

http://www.adorama.com/BG468MGRC4.html

http://www.adorama.com/BG3275.html?searchinfo=bogen%20410&item_no=1 (http://www.adorama.com/BG3275.html?searchinfo=bogen%20410&item_no=1)

[Former Member 8144]

Yes, not sure where you the talk of rubbish plates on the 410 came from..sure it may not be the smoothest quick release mechanism I have ever used but the plate is big and once its on both camera and especially the head...its going nowhere!...don't think you could use one of the smaller rc2 plates with it?

[Frank Petronio]

I guilty starting the trashing of the Bogen plates... I just don't trust them and they're bulky and proprietary... ymmv, no offense, just my prejuidice.

[gregstidham]

3-WAY LEVELLING HEAD
003663
This head combines total flexibility and light weight with extremely compact size and maximum stability. Eccentric locking levers positively secure the camera at any angle.
What are eccentric locking levers and how do they work? I've never seen or worked with this head. I've been thinking of selling my Acratech V2 and returning to a 3 way head. Thanks.

[Frank Petronio]

I didn't know they were eccentric? whatever that means... they just twist left and right smoothly and lock down with gentle finger pressure. maybe a 60-degree arc from loose to tight.

[gregstidham]

There must be knobs that aren't seen in the photo then. Thanks for the reply. It seems like another wonderfully engineered Linhof product.

[Frank Petronio]

Three lever type knobs, one for x,y,z. That's all. Very simple.

[David Millard]

The Linhof 3-D head is my favorite now, I have used most of the various Gitzos, the Bogen 410, several Arca balls... It is very compact, solid, and the levers are ideal for travel -- nothing to get wacked or bent.

It is sized for medium format and small to medium sized 4x5. About the same as an Arca-Swiss B1 or the Bogen 410 in that regard, good on a #3 Gitzo tripod. I would not want a long monorail or 8x10 on it, although they would work in a pinch.

I think I paid around $400 for a used one from German eBay. It's recent, black, but I think the older ones are probably just as good, just different cosmetics.

It is also liberating to be free of those damn Arca plates that everyone seems obbsessed with. Just use the simple screw ;-)

I agree wholeheartedly with Frank on this - the 3-Way Levelling Head is compact, adjusts quickly, and locks securely. I had one on my eBay watch list for about six months, and was fortunate to grab one in like new condition (for less than what Frank paid http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif) using Buy it Now. It has largely replaced my ArcaSwiss Monoball.

Even though I primarily use just "girlie-man" medium format (Linhofs, and occasionally a Pentax 67), this head also works well on my heavier Kardan Color.

[Kirk Gittings]

Van, I agree the 329 is a great general purpose head. I have two of them, but I sidelined them. It is a bit too coarse for fine tuning leveling in architecture, nor as quick, light or compact as the 468MG Hydrostatic Ball Head with RC4 for landscape and hiking.

[Former Member 8144]

Kirk,

Do you find the 468mg hydrostat you use can be tuned so that the movements are tight yet still smooth allowing levelling for horizons etc with a large format camera...the type of the thing the top rrs ball heads are good for.
I would not expect it to haev as much control as the 410 I use but for the longer hikes etc?

[joolsb]

Yes the 410 is almost perfect...its fairly compact, fairly light (1.22kg) and gives you total geared control in all the three important directions...but could be better built.
In fact I'm very surprised no other manufacturer makes something similar.

Arca Swiss do make something very similar. It's called the C1 'Cube', it's a miracle of precision engineering and weighs less than a kilo.

You really don't want to know how much it costs, though.... :eek:

[Kirk Gittings]

marc, yes that is the advancement primarily over earlier Bogen ball heads.

Let me amend my earlier post about the 329 head. It is a great general purpose head, but since I use two tripods, one larger and primarily for commercial close to the car vs. a light weight tripod, there were choices with the same RC4 plate which suited those tasks better.

[Bill_1856]

Kirk, my original post was about the 468MG head. Would you comment on it, please. Any drawbacks?

[Kirk Gittings]

Kirk, I agree with you the 329 is not the best choice for architectural use. But I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect head either. Some like ballheads, some don't, because they all serve a different purpose. If you want to stitch, the ballhead is less suitable. You have to look at your own needs, it may be perfect for one person, and not another. I still think the 329 is a great option except for architecture (if still available). It will handle anything up to 8x10, and isn't very big for the bag.

Did I not say that "It is a great general purpose head"?

[Kirk Gittings]

Kirk, my original post was about the 468MG head. Would you comment on it, please. Any drawbacks?

Besides all that I have already said already about the 468MGRC4 ( I can't recommend the RC2 plate version), I don't know what to say. Drawbacks are those of ballheads in general.