First Chamonix Shoot Out [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Hugo Zhang

16-Nov-2007, 22:03

I know it's a short notice, but we are going to have our first Chamonix shoot out this Sunday at Walt Disney Concert Hall.

So far we have 7 confirmed folks willing to get up early to take some shots at the famed architecture bathed in soft morning sunlight. Many people will meet for the first times too. All are from this forum!

Chamonix 4x5, 7x17, 8x20 and 20x24 cameras will show up and be caressed and fondled. After the shoot, it's breakfast on Hugo.

Please join us if you are not too far away and can get up early.

Jan Pedersen

16-Nov-2007, 22:07

It's a bit far to drive for a Sunday morning breakfast from Portland OR but should be fun. Hope to see some photos from the outing.

David Karp

16-Nov-2007, 22:32

Time?

vinny

16-Nov-2007, 22:45

I wish if folks would photograph the inside for once.
Be careful boys.

Hugo Zhang

16-Nov-2007, 22:49

Asher Kelman

16-Nov-2007, 23:37

David,

We meet around 6-7 before the sun comes out at the top level of the parking lot across the concert hall. I would like to see you.

Jan,

We will have at least one DSLR to document this event. Well, I believe we will have chance to meet later.

Vinny,

I haven't been inside yet. Lighting conditions? How wide the lens do you think people should bring?

I'd suggest the equivalent of 17mm to 28mm in full frame 35mm, depending what format you are using. Longer lenses are fine too, but to get the building and the sky lone might need wide. Of course the roof structure is remarkable so one need not shoot the whole building,

I'll be happy to take anyone from West Los Angeles is they love LF/ architecture.

I'll be shooting the architecture with 4x5, the photographers with DLR's and share with you a modest surprise.

Thanks Hugo!

Asher

David Karp

16-Nov-2007, 23:48

It would be nice to meet in person.

My family is going to participate in a charity run/walk in West Los Angeles. Registration is Sunday morning at 8:00 a.m.

Maybe I can shoot down the freeway, say hi, head back home, pick up the gang, and run to W. LA.

PViapiano

17-Nov-2007, 00:01

Greg Lockrey

17-Nov-2007, 00:14

Nice work, Paul.

Walter Calahan

17-Nov-2007, 07:17

Time?

Sounds like "morning" which is up to interpretation, but it sure ain't 10 AM.

Depending on how you wish to photograph the building, perhaps before dawn so one can catch the first rays of dawn?

Asher Kelman

17-Nov-2007, 07:27

Sounds like "morning" which is up to interpretation, but it sure ain't 10 AM.

Depending on how you wish to photograph the building, perhaps before dawn so one can catch the first rays of dawn?

What time is dawn? Where will the sun rise?

Some may choose other angles. you cannot photograph inside the Hall.

Asher

Asher Kelman

17-Nov-2007, 07:52

Hey...that's great!

I might be able to come. I'm actually working across the street at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion the night before, rehearsing Mozart's Don Giovanni.

I documented the construction of Disney Hall (including the interior) from 2000 - 2003 BF (before film), albeit with a dSLR. I've had a little site up since the start of the project here: http://home.pacbell.net/viapiano/gehry/gehryindex.html

This photo (http://home.pacbell.net/viapiano/gehry/Web_Pano_2.html)was made from the roof of the parking structure you're meeting at.

It is an amazing work of engineering and design...and still my favorite building in LA. It has such a presence...and I'm lucky enough to work there regularly in my capacity as guitarist for the LA Philharmonic!

Maybe I'll see everyone down there. I'd love to make some 4x5 images of it, in fact I was thinking that tonight as I was looking at it after dark.

Hi Paul,

What instrument do you play. I too have tried to document Walt disney concery Hall from the outset. Also we have a collection of pretty interesting pictures by different local photographers on my website here (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1396&highlight=Walt+Disney+Concert+Hall). My wife and I are pasionate about the L.A. Philaharmonic and this is the site I brought and suprised Hugo with to test his 7x17" Chamonix, which is in itself a beauty in its own right!

Not only is Frank Gehry's building magnificent, but it really is the product of vision, purpose, sedication and hard work of a core of dedicated philanthropists and leaders who guided this project against almost impassable obstacles. The orchestra is world class. The Professional organization behind it is truly at the pinnacle of success and the results of a clear vision and single minded devotion to the goal. This is essential what we need as photographers, musicians and any great human endeaver.

So for me this shoot is particularly heartfelt. Add to that the chance of meeting a bunch of guys dedicated to LF and ULF is too much for me to miss!

I look forward to meeting you!

Hugo Zhang

17-Nov-2007, 08:11

Asher,

Can you ask Wendy to recommend a nice place for breakfast/brunch nearby for 8-10 people? It looks cloudy today and the sun won't come out till 10am according to the weather forecast. If tomorrow is the same, we are going to have a late breakfast/brunch.

Thanks for introducing to this beautiful place!
Hugo

Mark Woods

17-Nov-2007, 11:00

I may be able to make with my Sinar in 4x5 configuration.

Asher Kelman

17-Nov-2007, 13:56

I may be able to make with my Sinar in 4x5 configuration.
Hi Mark,

I visited your website and really enjoyed your commercial work and how you seemlessly transitioned from one client to another. The that was then and this is now theme from the beginning transports us through the rest of your tour! Kudus!

Think of a wide lens! what will you have? Do you have a Graflok back? That would intereset me?

Asher :)

Mark Woods

17-Nov-2007, 14:39

Thank you Asher. I took a quick look at the site you administer, and I book marked it. Very cool. I'm still trying to get my larger tripod to work right before I make a decision. But I do have a 4x5 Graflok back.

Jack Flesher

17-Nov-2007, 16:33

What time is dawn? Where will the sun rise?

Some may choose other angles. you cannot photograph inside the Hall.

Asher

Hi Asher:

Sunrise tomorrow in LA will be at approximately 06:35 and 96.4 degrees magnetic heading. By 08:00, the sun will be at a 15 degree azimuth and at 109.6 degrees magnetic. 10:00 you have a 30 degree azimuth and 135 degree magnetic.

Enjoy the shoot everybody, and look forward to hearing all about it!

Jack

David Karp

17-Nov-2007, 16:58

I have been informed that my plan to run downtown for a quick hello and leave home at 7:15 a.m. will not get us to west L.A. in time to register for the walk.

Will some of you really be there at 6:00 a.m.? I might still try to come by sans camera, say hi meet a few of you, and then get home a bit before 7:00.

Howard Tanger

17-Nov-2007, 18:05

Hugo:
Which parking lot are you referring to? 2nd Street or Grand Ave?
According to the WDCH web site, the parking lots open at 7:00 am on Sat. and Sun.

My wife and I plan on being there but only as onlookers (if you do not mind) and plan on having Dim Sum at the Empress Pavilion restaurant in China Town.

Looking forward to meeting you tomorrow, Howard Tanger

lotusmk9@adelphia.net

Hugo Zhang

17-Nov-2007, 18:37

Howard,

I was talking about the parking lot facing the concert hall. Thanks for the reminder. Maybe I should arrive at 7 when it opens.

Dim Sum is not a bad idea at all. We will see. :)

Hugo

QT Luong

17-Nov-2007, 18:49

Note that half of the sidewalk belongs to the Music Center, where tripods are prohibited. The other half belongs to city of LA and is fine.

David Karp

17-Nov-2007, 20:28

From the above posts it looks like arrival time is 7:00 a.m., which is too late for me to make my other commitment. Sorry I will miss meeting all of you.

Perhaps we can try something similar another time.

Los

17-Nov-2007, 22:28

hugo,

i'm going to come out at 7am if i can get my sleepy head out of bed.

Howard Tanger

18-Nov-2007, 18:01

Hi Hugo!
Thanks for putting together this event. Chiyoko and I truly enjoyed ourselves. Meeting all the photographers and seeing those beautiful cameras was a delight.
So where did you and the gang go for brunch? After stuffing ourselves with Dim Sum we arrived home and had to take a nap.
Thanks again, Howard & Chiyoko Tanger

Mark Woods

18-Nov-2007, 18:53

Hey Hugo,

It was really great to meet you and see the Chamonix in action! I got a few shots with my Sinar 8x10, that had half the real estate of the 8x20's. Good times to spend with other LFers and Asher.

Eric James

18-Nov-2007, 19:19

When does the Hugo Tour play Seattle?

Rick Olson

18-Nov-2007, 19:29

Hello Hugo ... many thanks also for coordinating this event. Had fun breaking out the 8 x 20. Great to meet all the folks that came out. Sorry I missed lunch!!

Thanks,
Rick

Marko

18-Nov-2007, 19:52

It was indeed a great outing! I enjoyed meeting all the interesting folks that showed up. We should do this more often.

Marko

18-Nov-2007, 20:22

Just a few quick snaps from the outing:

David Karp

18-Nov-2007, 20:23

I am really sorry to have missed meeting all who came. I agree it would be nice to try for something like it in the future.

David Karp

18-Nov-2007, 20:48

Songyun

18-Nov-2007, 20:55

Just a few quick snaps from the outing:
Hugo with a 2024? When does Hugo start to shoot 2024?

Jan Pedersen

18-Nov-2007, 20:57

Hugo need to buy a fork lift first ;)

Look forward to see some photos from the outing.

Tri Tran

18-Nov-2007, 21:02

Hi Hugo and friends,
It was great and thank you for both of you and Asher to coordinate this event. It was a pleasure to meet everyone in this forum this morning. I hope everyone will get a great negs out of this shot.
Hugo, I’m sorry I have missed brunch for last minute. I promise will make it up next time. Thanks again for everything and looking forward to next meeting. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. TT

Marko

18-Nov-2007, 22:05

I forgot to ask. It was really foggy in west L.A. today. Was it the same downtown? Sure looks like it from the photos.

I'll bet it made for some pretty cool photos. That building changes so much with the weather and the light. What great fun.

It was foggy in the morning, but it cleared up later and it did change incredibly - the first two were made before and the last one after brunch. :)

And yes, it was fun, hopefully you'll make it next time.

Hugo Zhang

18-Nov-2007, 22:28

Turner Reich

19-Nov-2007, 00:59

Wow, Hugo you have the most awesome camera I have seen in a long time. That's one big, beautiful camera. How many film holders do you have for it? Do you know the total weight of the camera and a film holder?

Fantastic shoot, I wish I could have been there just to see the equipment and meet the people.

Asher Kelman

19-Nov-2007, 01:18

Well, guys, I really enjoyed meeting everyone. I have to get all the names right. So here goes, as start to let people see what went on.

One of the stars of the event was a walnut 8x20 camera and tripod made by Jim Ftizgerald based on hardware from an old Kodak D2 8x10. He laminated thin strips so he did not need to use a router. This was made in his apartment, not using a workbench or any power tools. The bellows were obviously made new and the rear standard is just the same fittings as the original just wider. The camera was impressive. Jim took a bunch of pictures from early dawn from over Grand Avenue on the top of the parking lot. The sky was misty and the skyline was partly obscured. Later in the day, after breakfast when most everybody else was gone Jim sneaked up to the roof again and shot the WDCH again with the more contrasty but still very special light which was throwing interesting shadows on the steel curves.

The 8x20 film holders are used but slide in well and the system works like a charm. Congrats. "Los" was hanging around being very friendly to everyone and was taken with Jim's work.

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/ULF_Shoot_11_18/_MG_8685_Small.jpg

Los and Jim

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/ULF_Shoot_11_18/_MG_8690_small.jpg_MG_8690_small.jpg

Los and Jim

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/ULF_Shoot_11_18/_MG_8692_small.jpg

Peeking in at the Chamonix 20x24!

I am looking forward to see the results of the shoot and especially Jim's work since to take pictures early in the morning an uncivilized hour is one thing, but to build the bloody camera, that's passion!

Asher

More tomorrow! A whole bunch more cameras to cover!

domenico Foschi

19-Nov-2007, 02:01

Greg Lockrey

19-Nov-2007, 02:05

BOY, that 8x20!!! That would make a hell of a stereo camera. :cool:

Asher Kelman

19-Nov-2007, 02:17

AAAAGGGGH!!! I am sorry I couldn't be there..
It sounds that you guys had a lot of fun.
Hugo, Tri and everybody else, I am looking forward to see you the nest time.
DID you guys take a picture of the all group?

I'll post more tomorrow, pretty well everyone was covered! I prmise you will be impressed!

Asher

Asher Kelman

19-Nov-2007, 02:20

Just for reference, until we show more pictures and film is processed, we can show what is possible with our little silicon cousins. The grand silver negatives will not mind, I'm sure!

Brian Lowe, Gary Ayala, myself and others have found the WDCH to be a source endless possibilities in composition and effect. See some of their work here (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1396). The Frank Gehry masterpiece takes on a different appearance every few minutes as the light is constantly re-distributed uniquely depending on the mist, clouds, hidden pollution, fog or the position of the sun or moon or stars!

I am now working on LF and ULF of this building and am very excited to see all the artistic results that we initiated with everyone's LF and ULF work.

Thanks everyone for being so welcoming and Hugo for setting this up, contacting everyone and working with me several weeks back on with the 7x17" Chamonix. The 20x24" camera is remakabley light compared to the Polaroid 20x24" cameras (which will cause a herniated disk or two, a hernia and even a need for soothing ointments and a donight cushion)!

Asher

Hugo Zhang

19-Nov-2007, 10:48

Songyun,

That's Tri's 20x24". I was merely his assistant for fear he steal my Protar lens.:) I have no room for processing 20x24" films. Maybe in a few years when I start the pt/pd printing. The next size for me is 16x20".

Turner and Jan,

That Chamonix 20x24" is about 27 Ibs and the holder is about 7 Ibs each. You will notice that the camera sits on a Ries Junior tripod which is intended for cameras 8x10 and under. On our way back down to the parking, Jim took a picture of me carrying one bag with the 20x24" camera in my right hand and holding another bag containing a 7x17" camera under my left arm and a Ries tripod, two film holders bags plus a bag for my lens, filters and other stuff in my left hand. We walked three levels down without stopping and rest. :)

Scott Squires

19-Nov-2007, 10:57

Hi Everybody,

The best part for me today is the chance to meet old and new friends. LF is pretty much a solitary hobby for "loners", to have 6-8 people spend a few hours together is such a wonderful experience for me.

There are a few people I wanted to meet couldn't make it today. We all agree that we are going to do this kind of shoot out again.

Thanks, everybody!

I live in Orange County and have been following this thread. I was unable to attend Sunday but hopefull you guys will do it again. As Hugo stated above LF Photography is usually pretty solitary and it would be great fun and rewarding to be with a group of LF people just shooting, talking cameras, film and everything else involved with LF and ULF. 7x17 and the WDCH would be great.

Jan Pedersen

19-Nov-2007, 11:24

Hugo, 27 lbs is pretty impressive for a camera this size, my old 8x10 B&J is about 16 lbs and i can't imagine you would have to many lens choice for this camera so that would limit the overal weight quite a bit.
Contact prints from this or your new 16x20 must be something else.

Would be great with a shootout in the NW sometime in the future.

PViapiano

19-Nov-2007, 13:53

Sorry I couldn't make it, guys! But with double rehearsals and splitting my time between the opera and Wicked, my schedule was full...sounds like a great time! Keep the photos coming!

Monty McCutchen

19-Nov-2007, 13:59

Hugo,

There is no room in a life for sneaking up on insanity, what you need is a 20 x 24 with a 16 x 20 REDUCING BACK. We can't hope to overcome our illness unless we acknowledge our problem. Tri and I are waiting on you; Red Rover Red Rover let Hugo come over! Besides, if you went to the 20 x 24 no one in their right mind would blame you if you needed to expand your darkroom, add a portrait studio, and take up wet plate collodion in those sizes. Gotta run, the misses has her camera radar on and is headed this way with a skillet.....

Sorry I couldn't be on the west coast for this event. When I come out west this summer with the 20 x 24 wetplatecamerapolooza tour maybe we can all meet up and make some time to cross paths.

Monty

Songyun,

That's Tri's 20x24". I was merely his assistant for fear he steal my Protar lens.:) I have no room for processing 20x24" films. Maybe in a few years when I start the pt/pd printing. The next size for me is 16x20".

Turner and Jan,

That Chamonix 20x24" is about 27 Ibs and the holder is about 7 Ibs each. You will notice that the camera sits on a Ries Junior tripod which is intended for cameras 8x10 and under. On our way back down to the parking, Jim took a picture of me carrying one bag with the 20x24" camera in my right hand and holding another bag containing a 7x17" camera under my left arm and a Ries tripod, two film holders bags plus a bag for my lens, filters and other stuff in my left hand. We walked three levels down without stopping and rest. :)

Marko

19-Nov-2007, 16:17

A few more big guns:

- Jim Fitzgerald sets up his hand-made 8x20 while Asher takes a photo and Rick Olson looks on.

- Not to be outdone, Rick sets up his shiny new 8x20.

- Mark Woods aims his Rolls.

- Tri Tran and his small camera (11x14)

Marko

19-Nov-2007, 16:29

I know these do not qualify, but it was fun and I can't resist. Moderators, please delete if you find them too much out of bounds.

matthew blais

19-Nov-2007, 17:12

That Fitzgerald dude gets around...I hear he hewed down the walnut tree himself using a sharpened rock twined to a stick.

Wished I had the time to have attended and will definitely plan around the next outing...looking forward to seeing the Chamonix offerings.

Asher Kelman

19-Nov-2007, 17:21

Matthew,

The walnut camera, Marko posted above is I believe the Chamonix 8x20 with Rick, its owner! I was impressed that the image was visible without the dark cloth!

The camera was on a light Ries tripod and seemed stable. It looks well made and finished. In fact it was amazingly handsome!

Asher

Mark Woods

19-Nov-2007, 17:24

A good time was had by all. And it really was a great opportunity to meet some of the people who are on this forum and share the madness. Keep posting guys. There were a lot of those new digital contraptions. ;-)

Mike Castles

19-Nov-2007, 17:25

- Tri Tran and his small camera (11x14)

Looks like a ROC Universal Tri, and quite nice I might add. Not bad for a small camera (I like it).

Ron Bose

19-Nov-2007, 18:42

Matthew,

The camera was on a light Ries tripod and seemed stable. It looks well made and finished. In fact it was amazingly handsome!

Asher

Having just chatted with Rick on this very subject, the Ries is an A100-2, the beefiest tripod Ries makes, it weighs 15 lbs !

Rick Olson

19-Nov-2007, 21:06

Hello Ron ...

You forgot the A-250-2 head that is 6 lbs by itself, making a total of 21 lbs of wood and steel! This camera/tripod package makes me happy I work out every day at the gym. I like beefy cameras and tripods!

Rick

Tri Tran

19-Nov-2007, 22:59

Looks like a ROC Universal Tri, and quite nice I might add. Not bad for a small camera (I like it).

Indeed Mike. My favorite of all. Cheers. T

Asher Kelman

20-Nov-2007, 01:36

That's the Chamonix 8x20 on a sturdy Ries tripod, of course! I think I saw one lighter Ries somewhere around!

Here's owner Rick Olson socializing with Jim Fitzgerald Hug Zhang and Tri Tran (hiding behind Hugo).

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/_MG_8751RickOlsen.jpg

I like the way his face is reflected in the ground glass. Actually the glass is so good, I could see the image of the WDCH without the dark cloth.

Now here's a treat. Mark Wood! You're a super friendly guy! Right now, totally involved in setting up his Sinar P 8x10 camera.

An unusual mist shrouds the concert hall. Frank Gehry has in his mind "sails" of the great traders and the grand yachts! So the WDCH appears emerging from the mist, an almost nautical setting.

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher Kelman_2007/ULF_Shoot_11_18/_MG_8632Mark_Woods_WDCH_1.jpg

How many folk are this happy?!!

Asher

Feel free to wander over to my site and critique my images there! All shots here were with the Canon 5D and the 24-105 IS L

Ron Bose

20-Nov-2007, 07:40

Asher ... nice images !

Jim Fitzgerald

20-Nov-2007, 10:22

First of all I would like to thank Hugo for putting this event together.I really enjoyed meeting all of the crazy people like me! We are all upside down and backwards thinking people which is normal to me! Asher thanks for the kind words and sincere interest in my work. Tri, man the cameras were great to see. I got a lot of ideas for the 11x14 that I'm building from all of the ULF that was there. The great thing about these events is the way we all share ideas and are very open about how we build cameras and create our art. Now you all think I'm the crazy one! Look at the pictures of Tri and Hugo. Tri sitting between the 11x14 and 20x24! Hugo carrying the 7x17 and the 20x24! Hugo, you can do the dunes no problem if you can carry all of that!

Jim

Dave Wooten

20-Nov-2007, 14:45

Wonder where one could get some carry bags like those in the above photo?

Asher Kelman

20-Nov-2007, 14:48

Well, this makes we wonder whether I want to go larger than 8x10! I have done a little of 20x24 but that was Polaroid, never film. I'm interested in knowing what is the largest color film available. I'd love to have a 20x24 Polaroid and fill up a fridge with the film but Wisner camera seems to be out of business!

Asher

Tri Tran

21-Nov-2007, 17:33

Gentlemen,
Here's the proof of 11x14.The scene was a little bit soft so I decided to go with Palladium. Cheers. TT

David A. Goldfarb

21-Nov-2007, 17:36

It is possible to special order color film in 20x24". Kodak's minimum order is around $10K. I know one 20x24" shooter who was using one of the Portra films (400NC, I think).

Jan Pedersen

21-Nov-2007, 18:56

Nice one TT. You really manged to keep the tones cool which i think would this spectacular building deserves.

Hugo Zhang

21-Nov-2007, 20:12

Tri,

I like that too. I am trying to imagine what the real platinum print of it looks like. :)

Asher,

Just place a special order of $10,000 for Kodak 20x24" color films and you can have that beautiful camera of Tri's. I will talk to him and give a you a special sweet heart deal.:)

Jan Pedersen

21-Nov-2007, 20:30

Just place a special order of $10,000 for Kodak 20x24" color films and you can have that beautiful camera of Tri's. I will talk to him and give a you a special sweet heart deal.

What a deal Asher, you don't even need to think about a 120 Nikkor anymore ;)

Tri Tran

21-Nov-2007, 20:40

Nice one TT. You really manged to keep the tones cool which i think would this spectacular building deserves.

Thanks Jan. I actually want to maintain the details of the building you might see in the photograph from highlight to shadow...
1 more thing. Pot dev at 70 F room temp to kick in little cool tone.

Hugo,
There is no difference between this print and the Platinum print except more.....$$$$$$.
Just kidding.

And for Asher. I will thrown -in lifetime tech support for the 20x24 to seal the deal :)

Happy Thanksgiving to all,
TT

Jan Pedersen

21-Nov-2007, 21:11

Happy Thanksgiving TT and to everyone on the forum.
TT, What would you be doing without a 20x24? Are you going 24x30 :eek:

Asher Kelman

21-Nov-2007, 23:56

Thanks Jan. I actually want to maintain the details of the building you might see in the photograph from highlight to shadow...
1 more thing. Pot dev at 70 F room temp to kick in little cool tone.

Hugo,
There is no difference between this print and the Platinum print except more.....$$$$$$.
Just kidding.

And for Asher. I will thrown -in lifetime tech support for the 20x24 to seal the deal :)

Happy Thanksgiving to all,
TT

Yes, but does it have a manual or an electronic rollfilm back?

Asher

Rakesh Malik

5-Dec-2007, 15:53

It sounds like I missed a fun event... so consider this another request for a Seattle event ;)

Asher Kelman

5-Dec-2007, 19:15

Shortly I'll post more pictures from the shoot out!

I'd appreciate any copies of images taken as I'm writing an article in Open Photography Forums on the resurgence of interest in LF and ULF. Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Asher

Hugo Zhang

7-Dec-2007, 23:47

Asher Kelman

7-Dec-2007, 23:58

Jan Pedersen

7-Dec-2007, 23:58

Beautiful work Hugo. Really like the first one, just seems to come out of space.

jan

Tri Tran

8-Dec-2007, 00:00

Hi Hugo,
I like the third one for sure and looking forward to see the 7x17 in person. Good Job !

TT

Jim Fitzgerald

12-Dec-2007, 22:24

Hugo, All three of them are awesome. I'm going to try to print my 8x20's this weekend.

Jim

Asher Kelman

12-Dec-2007, 23:01

OK, Asher, here are a few I printed tonight. The best one I have was a 7x17 negative I made after our lunch that day. But I can't post it here, because I don't have a PS to stitch it. I cheated a little for these three 8x10s, for I took them the following week.:) The first one was shot with a Apo-Skopar 30cm lens and the rest two were shot with a Zeiss-Dagor 18cm f/9 lens.
Thanks Hugo for being so enterprising in getting everyone together, even though you gave out my secret location! I stitched your picture but did not feal with the flare, just a little tonalitiy changes locally and some repairs to get rid of extraneous stuff. From the previous shoot with the 7x17 Chamonix, I take the lens to be the same 14" Golden Dot Dagor. Then it was at F/45. Efke 100 film rated at 50. I'm not certain about the aperture and film here, but I guess it might be the same.

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/CHAMONIX/Pano - wdch244 - 4268x1964 - SLIN1000
© Hugo Zhang 2007 Walt Disney Concert Hall Chamonox 7x17

I'm impressed Hugo. We need a huge lens hood for the Chamonix cameras!

This was a fun shoot, I'm looking forward to testing my new 8x10! I would love the 4x5 reducing back to have shift and rise!

Asher :)

I hope we can see the rest of the pictures by everyone else at the shoot! Copies would be so appreciated for an article on the resurgance of LF and ULF.

Brian Bullen

13-Dec-2007, 12:20

Hugo, the first photo is the great. Very clean, without distractions from fences or light posts and the quality of tones is wonderful. I'd love to see it in person. Beautiful!

Kirk Gittings

13-Dec-2007, 13:28

A genuine, honest question......for this subject matter what is gained by using ULF?

Matt Magruder

13-Dec-2007, 14:25

Kirk
likely not much at all....
but then again, not much is lost by using ULF for this subject matter either.

steve simmons

13-Dec-2007, 14:35

Its the process of working with the larger camera. it is not just about results.

Why work with a view camera at all. Just use a DSLR and 'fix' everything in PS.

steve simmons

Matt Magruder

13-Dec-2007, 14:39

I agree fully steve.
It kind of felt like there isnt any "answer" that can be given to Kirk's question.
rationally and realistically it would be hard to quantifiably state the advantages of shooting a cumbersome ULF camera at pretty much any location.... or at least it seems like it would be an effort on par with herding animals of the feline persuasion.

nonetheless, I cant imagine carrying any camera but my lone 12x20 to a scene and location such as this.

Marko

13-Dec-2007, 14:54

I took both my view camera and my DSLR to that event and I used both. Ended up with half a dozen rather acceptable photographs, none of them needing any "fixing".

It was a thoroughly enjoyable day, from both shooting and socializing perspective. It seems as if that were the case for all of us present, regardless of the format used.

And that, I think, is the best answer to the question.

Rick Olson

13-Dec-2007, 16:29

I just enjoyed the company and being with others "like me." I guess I could have brought my Canon digicam and snapped a few hundred shots, but it's not quite as fun. I actually enjoy the magic of working in the darkroom to produce something that is both unique (a ULF negative is .. just show it to someone for their reaction!) and completely done by ME. No electronic intervention of any type.

The same can be said for walking or riding a bicycle ... why? We have cars now.

It's all about the journey ...

By the way, I would post the images I took with my 8 x 20 but I don't have a scanner. Let's just say they look like Tri's and Hugo's.

Rick

Mike Castles

13-Dec-2007, 18:45

It's all about the journey ...

That says it all for me...

Monty McCutchen

13-Dec-2007, 22:02

A genuine, honest question......for this subject matter what is gained by using ULF?

I think what is gained is intrinsic to what is sought. Kirk you are a professional, an excellent one, and as a professional who also enjoys a rich personal vision the final product is often at the front of your mind I would think. For me, my photography is a bastion of refuge from the normal predicaments of providing for a family in a harried world. That seeking of the act of photography as much as the final product places what is gained at a very personal level that may not be tangible, although I would argue it doesn't make it any less valuable--at least to me! The time under the dark cloth of the ULF formats I shoot is magical to me and although it doesn't make my photographs any better, it does make me better I believe. I realize that for many the 'only thing that matters is the final print' and that how one got there doesn't matter--including the tools that help get one to the final print. Although I can respect that, that's not true for me as the narrative path to that final print helps inform my life in a way that is unique to my experience and for that I am thankful and enriched.

Best,

Monty

Brian Bullen

13-Dec-2007, 22:19

Monty, well said!

Asher Kelman

14-Dec-2007, 02:49

A genuine, honest question......for this subject matter what is gained by using ULF?
Yes, I can do just as well or much better with my Canon 5D hand held aiming the camera through the imagined nodal point of the lens and then combining the images in photoshop or Autopano Pro.

What should work well with LF and ULF is the imaging of transient events like leaves and birds flying over the area. One would think one could do better than by stitching individual DSLR shots. With the latter latter one can either miss that bird entirely or else get it twice or more!

It would at first appear then that the large sheet of film capturing everything at once has the advantage. However, for conditions where small apertures are needed, the exposures can be so long that birds no longer even register on the film and the clouds are combinations of events over a relatively long period of time.

So what are the special advantages of large sheets of film, (forgetting for the moment platinum contact prints and the like)? I think that LF is for getting image planes in focus that could not be readily achieved by grabbing shots by hand.

This would be appropriate then for landscape or product shots where the required focus plane slopes in two axes (pronounced ax-ees!). Anything less challenging can be done with regular camera, O.K, add a tripod too!

One can also climb a mountain as well as go up in cable car! There is something of the feel of being involved in the ancient "craft" of photography when setting up a LF or ULF camera and that is harder to get with a Canon DSLR!

Asher

Asher Kelman

14-Dec-2007, 03:05

I think what is gained is intrinsic to what is sought............... the narrative path to that final print helps inform my life in a way that is unique to my experience and for that I am thankful and enriched.

Monty, what you say, distilled, is what I try to have guide me, an idea that the pathway itself informs the final result in the print.

Everything in art requires a series of trades between competing imperatives of tonality, shape, size, timing and more. All these will be influenced by slowing down to use a sheet of film because at that time, one's whole persona has changed as one has, for a moment gotten of the bus and are for just a short while, standing back in the elements. So, I believe that then, all of the esthetic decisions will be tuned differently and compositional and other elements will have different measures of worth.

LF and ULF, (outside of product shots) allows us the opportunity to opt out of modern society and stop the clock by which everything else is timed. The only time needed is the second or minute hands of one's watch and even that is not even necessary.

Asher

Gordon Moat

14-Dec-2007, 11:22

Good morning Asher,

I think you are missing another aspect. Part of my going back into large format was from seeing images made by Edward Burtynsky, and also from reading an interview with Craig McDean (http://www.artandcommerce.com/AAC/C.aspx?VP=SlideShow_VPage&IAPA=1&STY=A&L4=2U1XC58ISKG9&L5=2U1XC58ISB3W&L6=2U1XC58IS7NR&XX=Artists) in which he states that the ground glass was his preferred way of taking shots. McDean photographs fashion and lifestyle, often with an 8x10, which he likes because it is near magazine page size.

Anyway, the draw for me is the ground glass. Partially that is the upside down image, because it can allow you a more formal approach to composition. There is also that aspect of controlling the image, more so than with smaller viewfinder cameras. To me using a 4x5 is more like drawing than photography.

When I work with people and my 4x5, I get to stand beside the camera, and interact with the talent. I suppose I could do that with a smaller camera on a tripod, but for some reason the interaction is different. Maybe that is the set-up time and planning, or something as simple as having a big camera seeming to be special.

So these are things beyond using movements, and beyond photographing static objects. There can be a hyper-reality to shots from 4x5 or larger, because there can be more in the final images than the human eye would record at the same location. We can also use movements to exclude information, or use little DoF ... view cameras give us a few more options and ways to approach work than what we could with most smaller cameras.

Regarding Kirk's question, if one was producing contact prints, then ULF makes sense over 4x5. Though I would also imagine that the ground glass is somehow a larger aspect for those using ULF. I might enjoy 8x10, though the convenience of Readyloads and Quickloads keeps me at 4x5, despite that an 8x10 ground glass seems like the ideal sketchbook size.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

Asher Kelman

14-Dec-2007, 13:27

Hi Gordon,

Interesting points on composition upside down! I visited your website and wondered about which pictures were taken with LF? The B&W of the dirl coming from the water is especially well done.

Asher

Gordon Moat

14-Dec-2007, 13:44

Hello Asher,

Thanks for the compliments. That B/W (http://www.gordonmoat.com/life_04.html) was done with my 4x5, but using a rollfilm back. Ilford HP5+ processed by DR5 (http://www.dr5.com) to create a transparency. I never did a count to check, though roughly about 40% of the shots are from my 4x5, either rollfilm back or Quickload/Readyload film. There are also 35mm shots there, though a few are hard to tell from my 6x9 images, which I use to shoot quite a bit.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

Asher Kelman

14-Dec-2007, 18:38

Thanks for the compliments. That B/W (http://www.gordonmoat.com/life_04.html) was done with my 4x5, but using a rollfilm back. Ilford HP5+ processed by DR5 (http://www.dr5.com) to create a transparency. I never did a count to check, though roughly about 40% of the shots are from my 4x5, either rollfilm back or Quickload/Readyload film. There are also 35mm shots there, though a few are hard to tell from my 6x9 images, which I use to shoot quite a bit.
Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

Gordon, were these hand held and what lens with what shutter speed and aperture.

Have you ever taken a shot with the roll film, then raised the back to take and overlapping shot for stitching? Hmm is that O.K. by you? I realize some purists might have knipshons just contemplating that suggestion.

Asher

Gordon Moat

14-Dec-2007, 19:44

That shoot involved 4x5 film at ISO 100 and the HP5+ rollfilm shot at the recommended ISO 400 (according to DR5). I seem to want to state between f11 and f16 for the rollfilm shots on B/W, while the colour shot (http://www.gordonmoat.com/life_05.html) on 4x5 was done at f8.0 (including a two strobe set-up for fill lighting). All done using a 135mm f5.6 Schneider Symmar-S.

A B+W 041 filter was used for the HP5+ rollfilm shots. Best I recall that was 1/500, though we were dealing with variable clouds moving fast, so I was probably moving the aperture or shutter depending upon changes. One assistant had my Sekonic L-358 and was giving me readings as they changed. Another assistant was positioning a very large oval reflector to balance the light on the right side of the talent (left side of image). I know I did a few shots with an ND filter, but liked the contrast from the 041 better, even after processing through DR5.

The colour shot is Fuji Astia 100F Quickload. Both battery powered strobes were set to manual settings, adjusted from readings off the Sekonic (sorry, I never write those things down). Shutter speed was 1/8 second to allow the background to burn in better. the strobes handled freezing any motion from the talent, so lens shutter speed didn't need to be anything special (really like leaf shutter ability to sync so easily).

These were tripod only shots. The plane of focus was set-up ahead of time, then the talent (actress) moved only along the plane of focus. When you work with someone that takes instruction very well, I find that selective focus is quite easy to accomplish. On the colour shot, the talent stayed between the structure posts, which was easy.

Anyway, I don't really write down much of anything. I do tend to do many of the same settings over and over, which is why I recall some of these things. These set-ups are repeatable for me because I do them often, and I have been able to explicitly trust my Sekonic readings. Of course I still shoot the occasional Polaroid (405 or 550) to check lighting, though when lighting changes fast Polaroids are not very practical (too slow changing backs).

Okay ... stitching? Honestly I never really thought about it. I have enough shift and rise on the back of my 4x5 that I could do this. Unfortunately since I shoot mostly transparency film it would mean stitching in software later. I do everything in camera, so it would be a departure from my usual methods. However, I think I will try a few shots like this on rollfilm, and see what comes out. Thanks for the suggestion.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

Asher Kelman

14-Dec-2007, 20:53

Thanks so much for sharing your technic. You make it sound pretty straightforward. The pictures, however, do not betray the LF formal approach!
These were tripod only shots. The plane of focus was set-up ahead of time, then the talent (actress) moved only along the plane of focus. When you work with someone that takes instruction very well, I find that selective focus is quite easy to accomplish. On the colour shot, the talent stayed between the structure posts, which was easy. Great idea!

Okay ... stitching? Honestly I never really thought about it. I have enough shift and rise on the back of my 4x5 that I could do this. Unfortunately since I shoot mostly transparency film it would mean stitching in software later. I do everything in camera, so it would be a departure from my usual methods. However, I think I will try a few shots like this on rollfilm, and see what comes out. Thanks for the suggestion.I like the extra flexability of rollfilm and the idea that one can work fast for example at sunset where the light can change fast in 10 minutes. The extra speed of available film can be really an advantage.

If you're not familiar with the process I'd be happy to stich some for you! chances are you are already a whiz in processing by any way you choose!

Asher