Print on Demand, State of the Art Nov 2007

[Frank Petronio]

I've been comparing results from Blurb, VioVio, My Publisher, Lulu, and Shared Ink.

I much prefer the HP Indigo output to the Xerox iGen.

I still think Lulu has the best inexpensive output and workflow (they take PDFs) once you get the settings right and bias your greyscale images to be RGB with a slight olive cast to counteract the tendancy for the iGen to print them pink-magenta. But honestly it is not portfolio quality and they have issues with quality control. It is better as a proofing mechanism for sequencing and copy editing.

I ended up purchasing the Shared Ink Professional Program. I think they are the most consistent and friendly -- the owners answer their emails themselves -- and everything has turned out very nicely from them. And they are fast. Greyscales stil need to be cheated olive, but they are consistent, and the ink-based Indigo is much nicer than the toner based prints. You still have to upload big jpgs for each page but it isn't that hard.

The rest of the Indigo printers either are more expensive or force you to use their own silly software (a pita imho) or they don't offer the right format books (why can't they do more portrait orientations? Freaking horizontal wedding albums are ugly.)

All in all, the books are more expensive than I want -- I won't be doing hundreds -- but I can do a few dozen. I just have to be more selective about who I send them to.

I am very tempted to print 11x14 portraits on the Shared Ink XL landscape book (12 x 6) and force people to turn the pages top to bottom (90 degrees counter clockwise to the way you normally read a book) simply because it would be awesome to have big prints like that. But I am scared that it might be clumsy....

Comments?

[Ted Harris]

I don't think clumsy is that important if the image is gripping then people will want to turn the book.

I am curious about your analysis, do they actually send you samples? I saw several of them at Photo Plus and was impressed with some of what I saw and not with some others. I thought blurb was quite good and didn't see Shared Ink.

[Frank Petronio]

I didn't send samples of my stuff to Blurb or VioVio but I saw some wedding type albums my friends did. Blurb uses an Indigo like Shared Ink and I thought the color repro was as good, however Blurb makes you use their Booksmart software (which isn't bad, just one more obstacle) and they don't offer the sizes that Shared Ink does. VioVio I am pretty sure uses an iGen.

The other factor in Shared Ink's favor is that they can use up to 40 sheets (80 pages) of 78# cover stock for pages in their hardbound books. The thicker paper is really nice.

Basically an 80-page Shared Ink book is about $85-$90 in linen and $175 or so in leather, so you don't order them in quantity... but when you consider that a nice portfolio ($100 plus) with 60 high quality inkjets ($120 in materials) still doesn't have the impact or usabilty of a hardbound book, they are still a good deal.

Another thing Shared Ink will do is to bind your inkjet prints into a nice tight binding, which is a pretty great service.

Of course you could compare and agonize forever, just like any other photo decision, inkjet paper/printer, etc... so I just made a decision to pick one and stick with it until something clearly better comes along. I can't help but imagine that some fine art type studio will eventually start using an Indigo to produce higher end limted editions at reasonable prices. They probably already are out there... they just aren't public with it yet.

[bob carnie]

We recieved our Durst Book Binding Unit, that I think will turn a few heads when we get it operational.
These are new to the market that I am in with a few units in a couple of Labs.* I know there are portfolio binders that have been making books for 20 years, but this unit is different*.
Basically we can supply the client with a working template* to position/edit images and type* on their own computers, the working book is ftp back to us and we then print on paper of choice, on the Lambda, Fronteir or ink jet machines. Or I can go into the darkroom and make hand fibre toned prints to make up the bound portfolio.
Real photographic output then bound into various covers suited to budget. sizes range from small 5x7 books to 20x20 covers opening to 20x40 inch.
What I really like is that we are not restricted to the type of original paper supplied to us so for an artist wanting to get representation, they can put their project into words and imagery on the final end product that their work is meant to be on. rather than an ink to press process which I have seen to be lacking when comparing the printed piece to original prints.
We will be having workshops early in the new year on this workflow.

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks for the information Frank. I have the same question Ted had. Is it possible to get a proof or two (of one or two prints, not of every print)from any of these services so that you can get an idea of what tonal adjustments will be needed before the book is printed or do you just send everything to them and hope for the best?

[Chad Shindel]

Hello Bob Carnie,

The service you describe sounds great...who are you with if I was interested in doing a portfolio like that?

Chad

[Frank Petronio]

yeah they offer sample pages at Shared Ink for like $5.95 each

Bob - wow ;-)

[Dan Schmidt]

some photography books have been done that way with the binding at the top and I think it can work well. It is a different aspect ratio , but micheal smith's book of 8x20 Tuscany contacts is done that way, so is hans bol's 7x17. Of course the primary reason do that with those books might have been to keep them from falling apart.

[bob carnie]

Chad

I own elevatordigital.ca , these books are brand new to us, in fact the techs from Durst Rochester are setting the machine up on Mon and we are training on Wed. We have not even listed this as a service , but we plan to offer discount books to clients that attend our open house in two weeks. www.elevatorworkshops.com.
We do not have formalized pricing as such as we are still overwhelmed with potential applications of this machine.
I am hoping to get Ted Harris in Toronto in Feb/March to do a scan workshop with output on different devices and make books onsite for those wanting to take the workshop.
Very exciting potential for Elevator and the books IMO can impress the hell out of any potential client a fine art or commercial photographer approaches.
This machine was initially marketed for the wedding labs but we see great opportunities with these books for showing off our services.
Its very hard to ship matted prints back and forth but a book is another thing.
We will need a month or two to get our shit together , but if you happen to be in Toronto, drop by and we can show you how to make this work.

Bob



Hello Bob Carnie,

The service you describe sounds great...who are you with if I was interested in doing a portfolio like that?

Chad

[Photomax]

Interesting thread.

Last year I did a book with Fastbackbooks. It was an expensive, time consuming project. At the time I did some digging into all the print on demand options. I think we are in the early stages of this commercial option.

When I started I wanted several things under my control. I wanted to design my own book, create my own number of pages and create my own wrap around dustjacket. I hate those cloth books with a whole cut into the middle.

I made my book with Adobe InDesign. I imported Tiffs and included real text to go along with the images. I also created a wrap around dustjacket with inside flaps that had content. The whole project was then distilled into two PDF files, one for the jacket cover and one for the actual pages(80+). The whole book looks good but the cost was over $200. The paper that Fastbackbooks uses is more matte than glossy. The paper is nice and heavy but the print quality is not up to offset coffee table book standards. Its pretty good though. Of course the better the files are the better the print quality will be.

Print quality is one of the areas that all of these outfits struggle with. They receive a wide range of customer feedback based on results produced from images that are cranked out by regular people and not press press professionals. A couple of services like Fastback and Usuka Books are targeting pros for this very reason. Usuka only caters to working professionals for instance. The downside to just about all of these guys is the lowest common denominator approach they take with respect to how the books get designed. Usuka requires that you use Photoshop Jpeg templates. Using Photoshop for text is awful. I much prefer the Indesign to PDF workflow. Obviously the average joe is not going to be using Indesign though. The main low end market wants it simple, simple, simple.

I hope this market grows. What I want is a quality printed book I can design with professional layout software with a jacket cover that costs $100. At the moment you have to fight against cheesy templates, size restrictions, quality issues and high prices...

Max

[PViapiano]

If anyone is interested, you can download an ICC profile for the HP Indigo, used by several of the self-publishers including Blurb, at:

http://www.bonsai-photography.com/

[vinny]

A&I here in Los Angeles uses the HP Indigo. Its an option for those of us to do a book locally. They say they'll have an online ordering set up soon. aandi.com

[David Karp]

Vinny, that's interesting news. Thanks.

Last week I saw a book done by My Publisher. It contained both color and black and white photos. I was surprised by the quality of the black and white photographs. Certainly, I did not look at them and think "why would anyone show their work in this format." To the contrary. It was obviously not up to the quality of the best photos I have seen, but it was surprisingly good.

[Photomax]

I am going to try Shared Ink. Signed up for the 45 day trial for the "Photographers Service" etc. The sizes are different so I need to figure the easiest method of making the pages shrink slightly for my existing 86 page Indesign document...

Max

[Photomax]

Chris, the president of Shared Ink, has been great with email responses to my questions...

[vinny]

Last week I saw a book done by My Publisher. It contained both color and black and white photos. I was surprised by the quality of the black and white photographs. Certainly, I did not look at them and think "why would anyone show their work in this format." To the contrary. It was obviously not up to the quality of the best photos I have seen, but it was surprisingly good.[/QUOTE]

I also made a short book of b+w photos with My Publisher. I scanned prints and uploaded jpg's. You have to use their software for pc or mac. By the way it only works with the latest mac os. There are some quarks to the software that i had issues with like centering the title. It looked centered in the preview but wasn't in the final product. They had me change it and send another book for free with two day shipping but the defect was the same. Customer service is/was good for emails. The quality is decent. There is a slight color cast and there's no profile to download. Cost is decent.
The color book i saw last christmas looked great for family snapshots.

[aphexafx]

I think that the low volume book production industry is kind of a cool thing. :")