Farfetched idea?

[Ash]

A long while ago I posted about Kodalith Ortho sheet film... Type 3.

Well of course we all know Ortho film isn't sensitive to red. That's all good apart from portraits with imperfect skin, or red-tinted hair etc etc. I'd asked also whether using a coloured filter on the lens would help.


Another thought popped up.. I fancy trying a few sheets of Kodalith through the Razzle, and since it's hand-held, I considered whacking the Vivitar flashgun on top.

I have a bag full of coloured diffuser boxes for the flash, so here's my question:

If I used a coloured diffuser, will this help capture a fuller range of tones on Ortho film?


My theory (albeit totally wrong I'm sure) is that by using, say, a light green box, everything becomes a shade of green, so the red areas can effectively be picked up by the film, tricked into thinking it's a green tone.

So the (pastel) colours available to me are:

Yellow, Green, Blue, Pink, Peach.


Any idea which of these would be most effective in altering a scene for Ortho film?



I don't mind if I'm shot down and called an idiot for asking, it was a passing thought after all :)

[Don Wilkes]

No, it will not work. If an emulsion is (by design) insensitive to a colour, there is nothing you can do to "trick" it. If it doesn't see red, it doesn't see red -- that's it, period.

Cheers,
\donw

[Ash]

Hi Don,

Thanks for your response.

I thought that I'd be literally changing the spectrum of light reflecting from the red objects?

[Vaughn]

The problem is red objects primarily reflect red light -- they will absorb the green light, and reflect very little light back at all to the film. It is an interesting thought, though...perhaps a green filter over your flash would make the ortho affect even stronger.

Vaughn

PS...I photographed my boys with some x-ray film (ortho) -- I did not realize how freckled one of my boys was until then!

[Ash]

Vaughn - I have some subtle freckles, but I also have not-so-good skintone, and a lot og ginger beneath the blond in my hair! That's a big reason I wanna pull out the other tones :D

I understand that using a filter on the lens cuts off light, so it will only enhance the contrast, that's why I was hoping using a coloured light source will affect the reflected light that the film captures.

[SAShruby]

I guess trying would resolve the problem. Maybe you will see what happends. I think if you have red which in not pure red, you should get something out of it. Like brownish or more yellowish would give you something in return. But it won't give you more if you flash it with monocolor. White light contains all three primary colors, so if you change to only one, it won't yield more grey.

I agree with others, pure red won't reflect even you flash it with any color.

[Ash]

Thanks for your response Peter.

Considering I'd like to find the best way to shoot people (or scenes that may involve people) I would have thought that the red areas are not pure red with living things.

As I said above my hair is fairly ginger but previously shooting without any colour-alteration, a fair amount of tone is visible as it isn't a block colour. I'll shoot a sheet or two and see what happens I guess :)

[SAShruby]

Only I can think of right now, you might try to play how to decrease shadows in your hair. Any color will be whiter if you make it more shiny. For portraitures, somehow, I would try to highlight the hair. Maybe, if you can accomplish it, it might give you less shadows, if that is what you're looking for.

But it sounds very complicated ...:)

[Vaughn]

Vaughn - I have some subtle freckles, but I also have not-so-good skintone, and a lot og ginger beneath the blond in my hair! That's a big reason I wanna pull out the other tones :D

Make-up and haircoloring/bleach?;) :D

vaughn

[SAShruby]

Make-up and haircoloring/bleach?;) :D

vaughn


Maybe you should take some make-up courses in local mall?:rolleyes:

[Ash]

That's all well and good for myself, but I don't plan on using 100 sheets on my own mug! :eek:

[Vaughn]

That's all well and good for myself, but I don't plan on using 100 sheets on my own mug! :eek:

Save the film for the manly guys -- it will make them look tough!

Vaughn

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Ash,

give it a go it just might work. there used to be technique of using opposite filters on the lens and flash, anything in flash range would be normal on color film shifting to the lens color farther out. Red will reflect green or cyan but less than the other colors will, you might want to try red or magenta on the flash with ortho film.

[Vaughn]

Ash,

give it a go it just might work. there used to be technique of using opposite filters on the lens and flash, anything in flash range would be normal on color film shifting to the lens color farther out. Red will reflect green or cyan but less than the other colors will, you might want to try red or magenta on the flash with ortho film.

Hmmm...remember, ortho film does not respond (is not sensitive) to red light...which is why it can be handled under a red safelight. If one can wave a naked piece of ortho film under a red safelight without exposing/fogging it, passing a much smaller amount of red light through the lens onto the film will not do zip.

Vaughn

[Ed K.]

Any idea which of these would be most effective in altering a scene for Ortho film?

Sure - if its red, paint it green or gray or something else other than red if you want it to appear lighter in the scene. You can give your model some pale green makeup and green lipstick too while you're at it. Even the classic white powder face with green lipstick would do very well. Some of that nice blue or green hair young people wear lately might do really nice. Of course, blood vessels in eyes would be pretty harsh!

It was quite common for old-time movie people to be made up in all sorts of odd colored makeup, with unusual colors in the clothes and sets. Even when not using ortho film, different films map colors a bit differently. You could shoot a Macbeth color card to see how some of your films map colors to gray in a visual manner.

And no, filters will not do the trick to make red read, unless the film has some red sensitivity. Perhaps even your ortho has a tiny little bit of red sesitivity if you let it expose long enough, then again, probably not enough. You could leave some under a red safelight for a few days, then develop to find out...

I noticed that if one uses an old-time, non-diffused portrait method, a person can come out looking better than expected with ortho - the harshness of the light sort of works with it. And if they have pale lips - no need for lipstick.

I just hope that glamour photogs that take cheesecakes of older women for their spouses don't use ortho - imagine the black vericose veins and tiny blood vessels! Whoa...

But think - if you took ortho photos for a dermatologist, at least they would get a great "before" picture!!

You know, you could always handle your regular pan film by infrared light and use infrared goggles if its the inspection part that's making you go ortho...

[Ash]

This was with the yellow flash head. Hideously underexposed, but the sweatband (blood-red) has minimal tone, it isn't flat black which shows some kinda improvement

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/me3a_sm.jpg

[Vaughn]

Color is not the only factor to consider. When photographing a forest recently burned (Yosemite), I was surprised at how silvery gray some of the burnt tree trunks were rendered on the B&W film -- the black charcohl actually is highly reflective.

If a red object is at all shiny, it will reflect some non-red light. How deeply red (saturated) the object looks will depend on how much non-red light can bounce off its surface. I believe this is why a polarizer filter with color film produces more saturated colors -- it filters out the scattered light off of surfaces that would normally mute the colors of the objects.

vaughn

[jenn wilson]

ash,
i know you want to bend ortho to your will, but perhaps you would enjoy something on the other side - infrared. i know i do. :)