An exercise in frustration...

[sog1927]

You know you're living in degenerate times when your local camera store doesn't *carry* cable releases anymore.

Steve

[Ash]

Worse when your own camera cable isn't "compatible" with the college's cameras

[Colin Robertson]

How about when you walk into a 'camera shop', say you're looking for a cable release and the very pretty blonde behind the counter replies, "What's that??"
Even better was going into a mainland branch of one of Britains largest photo retailers and asking for a changing bag. After a whispered conference in a corner, ye olde and wise assistant disappeared to a back room. When he (eventualy) returned his little helpers came round to see just what the mystery 'bag' was. I've never been one to worry much about fitting in, but I did start to feel like it was time for me to just go out in the snow and die.

[JW Dewdney]

At the local art stores nobody seems to have heard of 'dry mount tissue'.

[Gary Tarbert]

Or the question how many pins does it have?just one big one is my answer you know the the old plunger type ,confused look i will go get the manager.cheers Gary

[davidb]

How about standing between a husband and wife photo "team" at Zabriewski Point in Death Valley.

It's 6am and the sun is rising. These nit wits forgot their cable releases for the digital donations and therefore have to use the self timer.

Now the kicker is, neither know how to turn off the beeping noise because they
could not find their manuals.

This is a lovely sound at 6am when everything else is silent.

Idiots.

[Joseph O'Neil]

There's a story I read a few years ago on the net - dunno how true it is, as I think it makes the rounds and get exaggered with each telling, but I've always liked it. About "an old geezer" - you know the type, over 39 and actually some grey hair. (I passed that point some time ago) who walked into a photo / computer store (if there's a difference anymore) and wanted a printer that would match a Cibachrome quality print.

Well two things happened. First of course the clerk didin't understand what Cibachrome was, and secondly he went into automatic mode of spewing forth techno-geek babble sales pitch of the latest and greatest printer they have in stock.

the "geezer" lets him blather on and when he's done, simply asks "yes, but does it have LRF support?"

Of course the young techno geek is deeply embarrased that the old geezer knows some techo term that he hasn't heard of before, so he asks for help, and before long they are all the way up the the manager, who after a frantic web search cannot find any reference ot LRF, so embarrassed they finally ask the old geezer what is "LRF".

He says "you know, on the underside of the printer, does it support the Little Rubber Feet properly?"

:)

[John Kasaian]

Roflmao!

[sog1927]

They did, however, have a lovely selection of iPod cases.

Steve

[Brian Ellis]

You know you're living in degenerate times when your local camera store doesn't *carry* cable releases anymore.

Steve

What's a local camera store?

[domenico Foschi]

Just yesterday a 24 years old contacted me and was sharing frustration that Freestyle is out of stock with Foma paper.
That's nice. :)

[jetcode]

You know you're living in degenerate times when your local camera store knows the only reason you're there is because you:

A) need it now
B) forget to order it with the last shipment from B&H
C) you want to check it out before you buy it online
D) need chemistry that can't be shipped

I feel blessed because while our local store carries little film they do know what a cable release is and what media card is best.

[David R Munson]

There's a reason I order in 99% of what I need from KEH or B&H.

[Struan Gray]

Just try finding a decent pair of compasses for technical drawing these days. The odd thing though, is that the local stores always seem to have sets of french curves alongside the cheap plastic protractors and 6" rulers. *Someone* must be buying them, but I can't think who.

[Robert A. Zeichner]

Some friends of mine laugh at me when I show them 3 or 4 cable releases of different types that I pack in my bag. I do this for two reasons, one being that they do break at the most inopportune times and the other being that when one of their's breaks, I can just lend them another without having to try and "share" one when we are shooting 200 yds. apart.

[Nick_3536]

And people wonder why my last order from Freestyle included three cables. :p Three nice ones for less then one cheap crappy one locally.

[Joseph O'Neil]

Just try finding a decent pair of compasses for technical drawing these days. The odd thing though, is that the local stores always seem to have sets of french curves alongside the cheap plastic protractors and 6" rulers. *Someone* must be buying them, but I can't think who.

Quiltmakers and needle point. Seriously, look up quilting supplies on the internet and you'll find Staedler (spelling?) drawing supplies of all sorts coming out your wazoo. Without exaggeration I've found stuff in quilter's supplies that sometimes ever drafting/blueprinting businesses and general art stores do not carry.

A couple years ago on my way back from Colorado I stopped in a small town in Kansas - Hays I think, off the interstate, and out in the middle of nowhere. stopped for my mom, who is a quilter, to take a look at this store. A lot of quilters in Kansas and Colorado area.
Anyhow the number of technical drawing instruments there of all shapes and sizes was to me, simply amazing. A local drafting supply store in my hometown wasn't as well stocked I think.

A bit OT I suppose, but if you are looking, that's where to go

joe

[Pat Kearns]

Camera store.... is that is where film, darkroom supplies is given one shelf in a 50,000 sq foot "Imaging Center"? :confused:

[Struan Gray]

Quiltmakers and needle point. Seriously, look up quilting supplies on the internet and you'll find Staedler (spelling?) drawing supplies of all sorts coming out your wazoo. Without exaggeration I've found stuff in quilter's supplies that sometimes ever drafting/blueprinting businesses and general art stores do not carry.

Thanks for the tip. My kids have just discovered perspective, and I no longer have my Dad's set of drawing instruments (he took them back :-). I've been looking for something beween the antique ivory-handled set we inherited from my wife's grandfather and the cheap-n-wobbly nonsense commonly sold in school stationers. I'll try the quilting fraternity.

I vividly remember the look on the salesman's face when I walked into the local (very good) camera shop and asked for a camel hair brush. They've never been called that here in Sweden, even in the days when they were made of camel hair.

[Marko]

Camera store.... is that is where film, darkroom supplies is given one shelf in a 50,000 sq foot "Imaging Center"? :confused:

Yeah, and where most of the staff has no idea what the phrase "to skip like a broken record" really means because they are too young to remember one.

Geez, forget the two old grumpy guys from the Muppet Show (there's another reference!), except that there's a whole nursing worth of us here...

:D

[Pete Watkins]

One more mention for Britains largest photographic retailer. I took my Pentax spot meter in to get some new batteries and the idiot behind the counter thought that it was a movie camera. HELP!
Pete.

[David Crossley]

< What's a local camera store? >

Badger's my favorite :-)


David Crossley/Crossley Photography....

[Robert A. Zeichner]

Thanks for the tip. My kids have just discovered perspective, and I no longer have my Dad's set of drawing instruments (he took them back :-). I've been looking for something beween the antique ivory-handled set we inherited from my wife's grandfather and the cheap-n-wobbly nonsense commonly sold in school stationers. I'll try the quilting fraternity.

I vividly remember the look on the salesman's face when I walked into the local (very good) camera shop and asked for a camel hair brush. They've never been called that here in Sweden, even in the days when they were made of camel hair.

Kern AG is still in business and is distributed by Swisstek. I bought one of thier ruling pens when I was in college 40 years ago and still have it and still use it every so often. I may have some spare Dietzgen and some Polish drafting stuff as well. Send me a PM of what you need.

[Struan Gray]

Kern AG is still in business and is distributed by Swisstek. I bought one of thier ruling pens when I was in college 40 years ago and still have it and still use it every so often. I may have some spare Dietzgen and some Polish drafting stuff as well. Send me a PM of what you need.

Thanks Robert. PM on the way.

[SAShruby]

E-site is my best local store :). I find B&H expensive for amateurs. And Canadians.

[Ash]

Having read (and understood!) almost all of this thread, I'm not sure if I'm old for my age or I was well experienced in youth!!

[Jim Galli]

Just try finding a decent pair of compasses for technical drawing these days. The odd thing though, is that the local stores always seem to have sets of french curves alongside the cheap plastic protractors and 6" rulers. *Someone* must be buying them, but I can't think who.


Sir, we don't have a compass, but check out our new GPS! :rolleyes:

[Maris Rusis]

I sometimes wander into the local to check out the latest in digital tripods, and digital camera bags.

[jetcode]

May I ask why we expect new people working at camera stores to know every innovation over the last 100 years in photography or be called "idiot" if they don't. I didn't know what a spot meter was either until I needed one. Are we expecting every new kid to be well versed with 25 years of experience in photography?

On the other hand why would someone be working at a camera supply store and not be interested in all aspects of photography? When I was young I was in stereo sales one summer and I can surely tell you that the folks a few doors down who had been in business for 25 years knew their equipment and I did not. Does that make me an idiot? Don't answer that! You're probably right with your assessment!

[Struan Gray]

Sir, we don't have a compass, but check out our new GPS! :rolleyes:

With built-in mp3 player and email client :-)

I prefer to take a rutter and trust to providence and serendipity.

I'm a practical person, and I use the modern tools for work and play, but there's an elegance to the mechanical governer on a C19th steam engine that is missing from the sensor-AtoD-software-DtoA-actuator feedback loop in modern engines. Computer drafting has mostly lost the elegance of line that you find in classical drawings and etchings. We live in an age of dull efficiency.

I've put this on my Christmas list:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tools-Imagination-Drawing-Technologies-Eighteenth/dp/1568985991/ref=sr_1_13/203-7448654-9917532?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192780677&sr=1-13

[Ben R]

One more mention for Britains largest photographic retailer. I took my Pentax spot meter in to get some new batteries and the idiot behind the counter thought that it was a movie camera. HELP!
Pete.


Nah, it's far too big!

[j.e.simmons]

I realized we were sliding down the slope 25-years ago when I'd go into the local camera store, ask from Tri-X, and be presented with a box of Tmax. I'd explain that they were different films, but the pretty blonde couldn't seem to understand. It usually took a manager to get the right film.
juan

[Joseph O'Neil]

May I ask why we expect new people working at camera stores to know every innovation over the last 100 years in photography or be called "idiot" if they don't. I didn't know what a spot meter was either until I needed one. Are we expecting every new kid to be well versed with 25 years of experience in photography?


I first started my own B&W developing 25 years ago, and 25 or even 15 years ago, every "kid" in our local camera stores was usually a student in photography at a local college, or looking for a job as a photographer, or in one case, the owner's son.

In any and all cases, the "dumb kid" always knew more than I did and had a more extensive background, more experience.

It seems like almost overnight, and not just in camera stores, all that disappeared. Now the "dumb kid" has no interest in what they are selling, unless it's techno-babble crap.

Even then I find it's pretty poor. About two weeks ago I bought my daughter a portable hand held Nintendo game at Best Buy. The guy in that department had a hard time telling me what any real difference was between the Nintendo and Sony portable game systems. In fact, my 10 year old daughter knew more about the differences between the two systems that the guy at Best Buy did. Best Buy spent more time trying to sell me that stupid extended warranty than they did explaining the video game itself. And the really sad part is I'll go back to Best Buy, because as infuriating as they can be, thier "service" is still better than Wal-Mart, Future Shop and others. :(

So *that's* exactly what p*sses me off - the system as a whole. I can live with the fact I have to talk to somebody like Bigcameraworkshops or Mpex or Badger to get expert advice, but come on, when I cannot get good advice on the difference between video games? No wonder everything is going mail order. :mad:


Rant Mode = OFF :eek:
Need more coffee mode = ON :p

[CG]

May I ask why we expect new people working at camera stores to know every innovation over the last 100 years in photography or be called "idiot" if they don't.


I'd guess I do - pretty much - the main stuff - or why in blazes would they be they employed by a photo store? Is it not a reasonable expectation that in such a specialized shop as a photo store, where technical issues can arise from most every customer inquiry, that the clerk have the basics of the science and technology? They should be able to quote chapter and verse on both film and digital technology. Knowing the use of a light meter, a scanner, a film notch, bracketing, camera movements, hot and cold lights ... is a minimal expectation.

I don't expect the clerk to know developing agents that haven't been produced since the fourties, or the exact configuration of the controls on a speed graphic, but I do want them to know that a developer has some sort of component parts, maybe even the generic names like dev agent, restrainer, accellerator, preservative ... and that a Speed Graphic has a focussing control somewhere.

C

[Jim Galli]

May I ask why we expect new people working at camera stores to know every innovation over the last 100 years in photography or be called "idiot" if they don't. I didn't know what a spot meter was either until I needed one. Are we expecting every new kid to be well versed with 25 years of experience in photography?


From time immemorial folk with white hair have stood about and discussed how idiotic the younger generation is. It is the human condition. Nothing more nothing less. You know that.

[Nick_3536]

The little [and I mean little] knowledge that you'll find at the local shops near me is mostly with the "kids" The older ones might be able to remember something if you wait long enough for the gears to unseize but they mostly only remember what they are selling this week.

I don't expect the staff to know everything. It would be nice if they knew the stuff they were selling. When you ask for something and they go blank it's bad enough. When they are standing right in front of the item you're asking about it's only worse. I don't think it's too much to expect people to have a vauge idea what is on the shelf they lean on for most of the day.

[jetcode]

I'd guess I do - pretty much - the main stuff - or why in blazes would they be they employed by a photo store? Is it not a reasonable expectation that in such a specialized shop as a photo store, where technical issues can arise from most every customer inquiry, that the clerk have the basics of the science and technology? They should be able to quote chapter and verse on both film and digital technology. Knowing the use of a light meter, a scanner, a film notch, bracketing, camera movements, hot and cold lights ... is a minimal expectation.

I don't expect the clerk to know developing agents that haven't been produced since the fourties, or the exact configuration of the controls on a speed graphic, but I do want them to know that a developer has some sort of component parts, maybe even the generic names like dev agent, restrainer, accellerator, preservative ... and that a Speed Graphic has a focussing control somewhere.

C

OK, would you work that job for minimum wage? It seems the stores need qualified help but that may not be so easy to find for $6-10 hour.

[jetcode]

The little [and I mean little] knowledge that you'll find at the local shops near me is mostly with the "kids" The older ones might be able to remember something if you wait long enough for the gears to unseize but they mostly only remember what they are selling this week.

I don't expect the staff to know everything. It would be nice if they knew the stuff they were selling. When you ask for something and they go blank it's bad enough. When they are standing right in front of the item you're asking about it's only worse. I don't think it's too much to expect people to have a vauge idea what is on the shelf they lean on for most of the day.

I am blessed as the local store near me has young people who are quite knowledgeable and the elders who could spin your ears with stories. They know what a shutter release is, most likely have several in stock, and can fess up the latest in digital offerings.

[Thierry Schreiner]

Hi to all,

Your comments and experiences really gave me some comfort.

Thought I was alone with my "problems".

More than once questioned my sanity....., which as such is not completely wrong, but it ends up in endless frustrations.

I had exactly the same experience when I lost my cable release in the French "wilderness". I too had to the explain to the blondes, red haired, dark, and even balds in the shops, what it really was what I needed.

I don't need to tell you the look in their eyes when they understood.

By the way, never found a shutter cable that day and ended up buying a roll of thread to use as shutter release.

Thought it was a typical "old continent" problem.

Tend to buy almost exclusively through the net, though sometimes more expensive. It makes you loose less time, no need to battle with obvious explanations, just wait for the postman who anyway always rings twice.

Since I go that way, I just have less frustrations and deceptions.

That's it. I feel better since I read this thread.

Best regards to all.

Thierry

[jetcode]

I found that with a very gentle touch the shutter can be released effectively with the tip of a finger. While not optimal on a long exposure it won't matter.

[jetcode]

From time immemorial folk with white hair have stood about and discussed how idiotic the younger generation is. It is the human condition. Nothing more nothing less. You know that.

Good point.
And the younger generation stood around wondering why the elders were so cranky and demanding LOL.

[jetcode]

About two weeks ago I bought my daughter a portable hand held Nintendo game at Best Buy. The guy in that department had a hard time telling me what any real difference was between the Nintendo and Sony portable game systems. In fact, my 10 year old daughter knew more about the differences between the two systems that the guy at Best Buy did. Best Buy spent more time trying to sell me that stupid extended warranty than they did explaining the video game itself. And the really sad part is I'll go back to Best Buy, because as infuriating as they can be, thier "service" is still better than Wal-Mart, Future Shop and others. :(


I understand the frustration.

What's the difference between a Mac and PC, quick, 50 words or less. Maybe the reason this guy had a hard time telling you is because:

A) he didn't know
B) would you understand the deeper technical aspects of an imaging engine or the processor cores, or the way different titles respond on the different platforms?
C) he is not a gaming guru or developer

[Marko]

I understand the frustration.

What's the difference between a Mac and PC, quick, 50 words or less.

Well, I don't understand - neither the frustration nor the concept of asking a retail store clerks for information that could be readily found in under a minute on the Internet right from your home. If in this day and age you don't know what are you looking for by the time you hit the store, you are not ready to buy. Or perhaps you don't even need it.


Maybe the reason this guy had a hard time telling you is because:

A) he didn't know
B) would you understand the deeper technical aspects of an imaging engine or the processor cores, or the way different titles respond on the different platforms?
C) he is not a gaming guru or developer

How about:

D) He's paid barely enough to simply arrange and dust the boxes on the shelves.

The concept of "experts helping you choose the stuff that's just right for you" (or something along those lines) exists only in those stupid TV commercials. We have long ago stepped into the age of minimum-wage "warm bodies" with mechanical smiles.

The stores don't employ people interested in the the stuff they sell, nor people capable of learning about it. They simply cost too much and will likely be bored after explaining all the differences between a Nikon D70 and a Canon DRebel to an average soccer mom for the third time and leave.

Going to the store to get "personalized, expert service" is as realistic as going to the chain restaurant and expecting to really get "the good, old fashioned home made meals". (Just a figure of speech, of course, it all depends on the actual home...)

[jetcode]

How about:

D) He's paid barely enough to simply arrange and dust the boxes on the shelves.

Exactly. I mentioned that in an earlier post. Something like, would you provide your 25 years of skilled experience for $8 an hour? The only way retail survives is by killing the labor costs. Safeway continues to rebuild their stores while increasing shareholder revenue. They state that reducing labor costs has made this possible. Checkers used to get $18 an hour, a salary that some say is extravagent, now they get $8 an hour. Try buying a house or raising a family in an area where the median home price is over a million dollars. I can't afford a home here and I make $75 an hour. Of course my priorities are different then most.

[Joseph O'Neil]

OK, would you work that job for minimum wage? It seems the stores need qualified help but that may not be so easy to find for $6-10 hour.

Gawd - I *hate* questions like that. I did work for low wages just above minimum wage as a student and an apprentice, and yes, I *was* expected to be on my toes at all times.

Now as self person employed in a family business, when i calculate my real hours I put in, I'm still actually close to minimum wage. I can introduce you to a hole slew of small business people from owners of small retail stores to farmers to even professionals who only make a living because the 40 hour work week is a dream, a fanatasy. Even a Doctor friend of mine who makes a good living once told me "the only reason I get ahead is because I put in over 1,000 hours of overtime last year." Do the math and figure out how many hours a week that is.

There are two things I try to teach my son that were taught to me. First, you'll never get ahead in life only doing 40 hours a week, from a ditch digger to President, it just doesn't happen. Secondly, those who do the hardest jobs are the ones who rule the world. I care much for ruling anyone else, but I sure hate being told how to run my life, especially by idiots, so there's the choice life gives you.

[Nick_3536]

The big problem with arguing the staff is working for low pay is the retail prices. Look if I'm expected to look up all my own info from the internet then I expect internet prices. If the local shop doesn't want to compete with B&H,Freestyle etc on price they better have something to offer. One of the few things they can offer is service.

[Marko]

Checkers used to get $18 an hour, a salary that some say is extravagent, now they get $8 an hour.

A true measure of how rich a country really is is not how many people earn more than a million bucks a year, it is how many people live bellow or close to the poverty line. And we as a society are moving in the direction of eliminating the middle class altogether and not by moving them up.

Now, granted, $18/hr is nowhere near the middle class, but by vacating that category, those who think it is extravagant wage are in reality making room for pushing the current middle class down, probably using the same qualification.

Of course, they themselves mostly do not even get any wages - they receive the dividends.

[jetcode]

Now as self person employed in a family business, when i calculate my real hours I put in, I'm still actually close to minimum wage. I can introduce you to a hole slew of small business people from owners of small retail stores to farmers to even professionals who only make a living because the 40 hour work week is a dream, a fanatasy. Even a Doctor friend of mine who makes a good living once told me "the only reason I get ahead is because I put in over 1,000 hours of overtime last year." Do the math and figure out how many hours a week that is.


I've worked two jobs most of my life and have been self-employed since 1986. Right now I have 3 jobs. I can relate to what you are saying though I have never been married to a retail business or have been a CEO or anything like that. I contract and manage to take 3 months or so a year off from the engineering world. It is quickly consumed with all the other details to manage in life.

[Joseph O'Neil]

I understand the frustration.

What's the difference between a Mac and PC, quick, 50 words or less. Maybe the reason this guy had a hard time telling you is because:

A) he didn't know
B) would you understand the deeper technical aspects of an imaging engine or the processor cores, or the way different titles respond on the different platforms?
C) he is not a gaming guru or developer

MAC vs PC - can do, but first are we talking a PC with Windows XP, Vista or Linux installed. Secondly, would you like a discorse on the differences between the different Linux distributions available, and you would you like to review variations on how the different O/Ses affect CPU clocking and long term use?
:)

as for your other points....

a) - well of course he doesn't know me - there's over 350,000 people in our city, no clerk is expeceted to know everyone who walks in the store.
As a matter of fact, that is one of the foremost important lessions about any are of retail - "you do not know who is walking in your front door". Regardless of how they look, you don't know if that person is a multimillionare or not, so even giving them good service on a ten cent item might lead to a big opportunity down the road.
What if you are a clerk in a dead in job, and you go looking for a better one. What happens if by chance that man or women you impressed on that ten cent item is all of a sudden the person who is hiring you for your next job?
You are exactly right - you just don't know who that person is.

B) I don't no want nor did I want an explanation of technical aspects of the games - save for some help on the wireless gaming would of been helpful. All I really wanted to knwo was how long the batteries lasted, and which one had the better games for a ten year old. Is that something I ahve to apologize wanting to ask?

C) He's not a gaming guru? Fine, then why is he in charge of selling the games then? I mean, is it really that very hard today to find 20ish year old who knows video games? I mean think about it, all the kids playing video games today and they cannot find one who knows games enough to explain them?

Regardless of what era you live in, opportunity only happens to those who make it happen for themselves
joe

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Before the internet we had mail order, the same players which instead of having a web page advertised on Shutterbug or some of the other magazines. I was laid off and for a year I worked at a camera store, so here are some of my observations.

Minimum wage has nothing to do with the counter person having knowledge even if they are young. While I was an exception and had been doing photography for many years, the store I worked at had mostly young persons, in their late teens and early twenties. The manager in the store was the reason this neighborhood store was very succesful. He would take the new kids and take the time to show them the differences between each camera, the accesories they used, how to evaluate a camera, the differences in lenses, etc. He also had photography books on the shelves in his office that he allowed any of the personel to borrow and read them.

As customers came in the store, the kids had enough knowledge to be able to answer most questions, since they were able to do their job well, they felt better and wanted to learn more. As Nick commented, there were people who came in and asked "why should I buy the camera here if I can get it from xxxxx for $200 less", our response was, for the service! If you have a problem with the camera or want some help in learning how to use it we are here to help you, try that with xxxxxx. Most people thought that was a good exchange for their money.

Getting paid minimum wage is not an excuse for doing a poor job, but you have to give the employee the tools to work with and in turn the employee has to have some interest in getting ahead and good work habits. BOth of which I beleive are sorely lacking in present day. The manager does not want to bother he wants to be at meetings, conferences and figure out how can he increase profits by selling bullshit added items like extended warranties, in fact the employees get more training in selling this crap than in selling the real items, and the employee wants to do the minimum work possible because they are getting paid minimun wage, have no idea what they are selling and as it was mentioned above, they feel the customer needs to come in and know what they want since they cannot be bothered.

[Matus Kalisky]

I see that the world here on old continet goes the same way as beyond the big lake.
I have the same experience as most of you - it is pretty hard to find a shop where the guys working really know what they are selling. But as well I know that they are usually not paid properly - or - they at least think so.

But we should neither blame them or the cmopanies for this trend - at least not in the first place - we shuld better blame us - those who stand on the other side of the store desk. We want to have as much as possible for as little as possible. I see this so much in the clothing bussines - HUGE amount of crap brought from east asia (do not get me wrong here - I have nothing against importong goods from these countries and my best trecking shos I have used for 5 years were also produced there - but we seem to be willing to import ANYTHING as long as it is cheap - socks, cutlery, toys, guitares) - and people are buying that. It is damn cheap and lasts 2 weeks at most - but most seem to be happy to get two for one. If we are willing to buy cheap crap - the selling companies will make sure we will get it - and a cheap and crappy service will come along.

Sure - each of us has somtheing he is more concerned about - it seems to be photography on this forum. But there in the shops the rules are set by the majority of customers who just enter the shop - let the shop assistant "explain" them what they need and in 5 minutes leave with new camera or other stuff - happy as meloons to get the beat cheapiest thing in the class. This other common feature that is spread not anymore only among teenagers - unability and unwilligness to invest some time, effort and thinking in what we are doing (or should/could be doing) is bringing the quality of the shops and services down too. And 5% customers that do care and think and are willing to pay for what they get - and leave the shops unsatisfied will not change it.

I thank god that thare are no cheap new spot lightmeter as I would probably buy one and than would have no moral right to post these ;)

.. shuldn't be this move to the Lounge ? :o

[walter23]

Now the kicker is, neither know how to turn off the beeping noise because they
could not find their manuals.

Not to mention the flash. "Oh look at the moon reflecting across the dark water! It's so big!" <clik FLASH clik FLASH clik FLASH> ;)

[walter23]

Having read (and understood!) almost all of this thread, I'm not sure if I'm old for my age or I was well experienced in youth!!

Haha, agreed. Okay, I'm not that young (early 30s) but I'm not quite a grumpy old geezer yet either (grumpy & geezer, sure).

I was, however, alive when records were the norm and cassette tapes just coming into fashion. Now I see young kids fetishizing cassette players (kind of analogous to the way I turn old camera gear into a fetish I guess). Sony Sports Walkman - RETRO! Hah.

[walter23]

On the other hand why would someone be working at a camera supply store and not be interested in all aspects of photography?

Because like most retail workers they'd really rather not be there earning their ridiculously low wage and fighting for commissions, but they need a job?

[walter23]

Secondly, those who do the hardest jobs are the ones who rule the world.

Last I checked the migrant workers living with their families in rows of outhouse-sized wooden shacks in Guatemalan banana plantations weren't doing much ruling. Neither were the indonesian sweat-shop employees or the walmart-crap assembly line workers in China, the meat processing plant workers in most of north america, nor the cigar rollers in Cuba.

To rule the world (and there are probably a few small exceptions), you're born into the right family and you've got a keen and basically sociopathic business sense that allows you to slice and dice everybody in your way and everybody underneath you in order to get ahead. Okay - you might also be the right kind of nerd at the right place and time during some technology revolution, like the handful of lucky dotcom millionaires, but c'mon... buddy the CEO of symantec isn't quite Dick Cheney caliber. Being just slightly rich isn't quite ruling the world.

[CG]

OK, would you work that job for minimum wage? It seems the stores need qualified help but that may not be so easy to find for $6-10 hour.

A more useful question is whether a person, way back then, when an entry level retail job would have been appropriate, would have taken the job, and the answer is yes, I would have, back then.

A camera store can be a place for a young person with photo knowledge to get a start. They can trade a camera enthusiast's specialized knowledge and some time and energy for a wage. An awful lot of fields have entry level positions that pay minimal wages but give someone a toehold on the first rung of the ladder. It's just not appropriate for people without the knowledge.

Best,

C

[jetcode]

Because like most retail workers they'd really rather not be there earning their ridiculously low wage and fighting for commissions, but they need a job?

I see this young guy ho is quite knowledgeable in both analog and digital photography on Sundays, and he is about as blue as one can get. Hungry for at least someone to talk to. I live close to Seawood Camera in San Anslemo, CA and they have some very savvy folks there for a small shop. Last of it's breed. There are some other stores in the area that resemble the kind being discussed here.

[walter23]

Actually there are people in my local photography store who are usually thrilled to get to talk about something other than "what's got more megapixels the olympus D729b-pro M series portable digital or the sony sureshot X1119B2" and "should I get the canon G20 or the pentax M1010 or the sony 18Bpro or the olympus X7 if I want to shoot landscapes and sunsets and pets and flowers and maybe get into some pro wedding work on the side?"

There are a few B&W printers there and even LF shooters.

[Greg Lockrey]

The only time that I go to my "local" store is when I run out of film that I need to do a job that day. Otherwise I use online stores ahead of time. The last time I needed an item from the "local" store it had to be ordered and it took about a month to get it. With the online stores I have it in two or three days tops. My paper and ink supplier has my material in two business days tops. I asked the "local" store to be my paper and ink supplier so that I could help them have a sales volume but all they had to do was match my supplier's price. I guess 200 square feet of paper and ink a day isn't enough of a volume for them so now they are out of the loop. Another time I wanted a small boom light with soft box to use as a hair light and I couldn't buy the one on the floor unless I bought the whole lighting kit. I just needed the boom and box. B&H had a better one to me in three days.