New kid on the block with questions.

[Wheelie52]

Hello all ... my first time on this forum and pretty new to photography in general.

I started off with 35mm rangefinders but seem to be heading other ways as well ... a while ago I bought a Crown Graphic which has sat in the cupboard unused while I learn the basics with the 'little format.' I've just started developing my own 35mm black and white film but would like to try my hand at 5x4 and also give myself a reason to use the Crown a little more than the current zero and drag the HP5 and Tri-X that I bought out of the freezer!

What will be the most economical way to process my own 5x4 negs? I can't see the point in spending a lot of money on some fancy daylight tank at this stage and would appreciate some ideas. I've heard that tray developing individual negatives is possible but difficult to do in the pitch black environment required!

Thanks in advance for any help. :)

[wclavey]

I am probably in the minority here, but I develop my 4x5 in a used Jobo tank I got at the used darkroom section of the local camera shop for about $10. I use it as a regular daylight tank (like you would for 35mm or 120) - - I bought a large cork stopper to plug the hole, initially, until I got a daylight lid for it... it has served me well and is exactly like you would do the smaller formats except that it uses about 1700 ml of chemistry to develop 6 sheets. I usually try to wait until I have 4 or more sheets to develop, because of the large volume required, but sometimes I just can't wait...

[John Kasaian]

Check out he Unicolor article on the LF Home page :)

[poco]

Hi new kid!

Developing film in trays in the dark is a heck of a lot easier than loading film holders and most of us have to manage that, so I'd say "difficult" is the wrong word -- maybe "boring." The cost of three trays is cheap so I'd recommend you try it once, maybe just with a single negative, to take the mystery out of it and see how it sits with you. Some people hate it, but I find it very easy and relaxing. Give it a shot!

[Greg Lockrey]

Hi new kid!

Developing film in trays in the dark is a heck of a lot easier than loading film holders and most of us have to manage that, so I'd say "difficult" is the wrong word -- maybe "boring." The cost of three trays is cheap so I'd recommend you try it once, maybe just with a single negative, to take the mystery out of it and see how it sits with you. Some people hate it, but I find it very easy and relaxing. Give it a shot!

You want to get trays 1 size larger than the film/paper you are developing. IE 5x7 for 4x5 and 11x14 for 8x10 etc. You will be in the dark for about 15 minutes tops per session. I can easily develope 4 sheets at a time using tray method, I've done more in a pinch but it becomes hectic. It takes practice to be sure. I use a metronome to count my time in the dark instead of trying to look at a clock.

[Wheelie52]

You want to get trays 1 size larger than the film/paper you are developing. IE 5x7 for 4x5 and 11x14 for 8x10 etc. You will be in the dark for about 15 minutes tops per session. I can easily develope 4 sheets at a time using tray method, I've done more in a pinch but it becomes hectic. It takes practice to be sure. I use a metronome to count my time in the dark instead of trying to look at a clock.

Someone was telling me that one of the electrical gadget stores here in Oz sells a talking timer for about twenty dollars ... it probably yells out ... "Hey dopey, three minutes to go!" etc. :p

If you have the patience would you like to outline the procedure briefly for tray development and what one needs aside from the trays ... of which you need three I gather? :)

[Walter Calahan]

Tray development is not difficult. Just have to try it, and perfect the technique. There is a learning curve. Your first attempt may have problems, but hey, did you ride a bicycle the first time without falling? Tray development is the most economical way to go.

[Louie Powell]

Tray development is absolutely simple.

Get yourself four trays that are one-size larger than the film you are developing - 5x7 for 4x5 film. Plain water - developer - stop (which can also be plain water) - fix.

For developer, I recommend HC-110. It's economical, lasts forever, and gives good results. Save the experimentation with exotic developers until you are comfortable with the process and get good results. I also recommend rapid fixer (ammonium thiosulfate) because it saves time.

It's a good idea to wear rubber gloves when processing sheet film. One reason is to avoid absorbing chemicals through the skin, but a more important reason is that rubber gloves will protect your film from sharp fingernails that otherwise might scratch the film.

I suggest using HC-110 in dilution H - that's dilution B as described on the HC-110 bottle, but with twice as much water. With dilution H, you have to extend the development time - typically, just double it. The development time at dilution B is fairly short, and in tray development, it helps to have more time.

In total darkness, take the sheets of film out of their holders. I suggest putting the film into a temporary container until you have all of your holders empty so that you aren't emptying holders at the same time that you are putting film into trays of liquid. I use empty film boxes for this purpose.

Hold the stack of film in your left hand. Take one sheet and place it face down in the first tray (water). Let it sit for a few second, and then gently add a second sheet, also face down. When you add a sheet, gently lay it on top of the liquid in the tray, and then gently press it down to the top of the stack. You can also gently place one edge of the film against the side of the tray, and then drop the sheet into the tray. But try to avoid dropping the film edgewise on top of other sheets - the corners of sheet film are sharp and can gouge holes in other sheets.

Continue until all of the sheets are in the water. When you are first starting out, its helpful to limit yourself to processing a small number of sheets at a time - say not more than four. As you become practices, you can increase the number, but you probably won't want to try to do more than eight at a time.

As the sheets are soaking, periodically lift the stack out of the tray of water, and separate and remove the bottom sheet. Pull it away from the stack - don't slide it across the stack. Drop the stack back into the water, and gently lay that bottom sheet on top of the stack, again face down. Continue to shuffle through the stack for about a minute.

Then, one at a time, lift the sheets out of the tray of water, and place them face down in the tray of developer. Continue to transfer the sheets from the water bath to the developer until all have moved. At this point, start timing the process.

I use a GrayLab 300 timer with phosphorescent hands - the hands glow faintly in total darkness so that it is possible to see what is happen, but they don't throw off enough light to fog the film. I have the timer set for my development time, and start it when the last sheet of film goes into the developer. I don't try to read the time on the timer; instead, determine the timing by counting the rotation of the minute hand.

Shuffle the film continuously in the developer, moving the bottom sheet in the stack to the top.

At the end of the development time, transfer the sheets, one at a time, to the stop bath. Agitate there for a short time (thirty seconds is enough), and then transfer them, one sheet at a time to the fix. Continue to agitate by shuffling the bottom sheet in the stack to the top of the stack. After about a minute, you can turn on the white light. With HC-110, dilution H, your total dark time will have been around 13-14 minutes.

[Greg Lockrey]

Someone was telling me that one of the electrical gadget stores here in Oz sells a talking timer for about twenty dollars ... it probably yells out ... "Hey dopey, three minutes to go!" etc. :p

If you have the patience would you like to outline the procedure briefly for tray development and what one needs aside from the trays ... of which you need three I gather? :)

That sounds okay and a lot of fun but really the metronome will help you develope into a cadence which is helpful when you want to be consistent ie like knowing when to rotate from the bottom to to every 15 seconds or so depending on the number of films. Louis Powell's suggestions I concure 100%. I did a master's degree thesis in college on the sensiometric comparisons of D-76 to HC-110. From that study, HC-110 is my favorite developer.

[Brian Ellis]

Trays are definitely the most economical, I used them for about a year with 8x10 film. But do you like standing in the dark for 10 - 15 minutes shuffling 2-6 sheets of film, mentally keeping track of the shuffles, and inhaling chemical fumes? Do you particularly like doing this for long periods of time when you have a large quantity of film to develop? If so then trays are for you.

If not spend a little money on something else. I've always thought that tubes (BTZS or home-made) were the best combination of relatively little money, ease of use, consistency of development, taking up little space, and doing everything in daylight once the film is loaded in the tubes. But there are other choices - tanks, drums, etc. If you buy BTZS tubes new a set of six tubes, 12 caps, and a water jacket tray costs about $100 in the U.S. If you make your own with materials available at most hardware stores you'd probably spend about what you would for three or four trays (there are instructions for making tubes in the back of Phil Davis' book "Beyond The Zone System" and probably somewhere here or elsewhere on the web).

Used darkroom stuff is dirt cheap these days, I'd spend some time on ebay, do a little reading, and then spend a little money to avoid the downsides of trays.

[steve simmons]

There is an article on tray developing which is a step by step how-to on the View Camera web page

www.viewcamera.com

and then go to the free articles section. In a recent, and unscientific poll here on this forum, trays were the most popular method.

steve simmons

[rippo]

i prefer the 'taco' method. since i don't usually have a lot of negs to develop at one time. i have a plastic daylight tank, the kind that will do two 35mm reels or one 120 reel. i put a rubber band around each neg in a changing bag, so the emulsion side is inward, and the neg is bent lengthwise into the shape of a 'taco' or a 'U'. they then go in the daylight tank, and i develop them as if they were roll film (although i'm a little more gentle in my agitation).

i tend to use a two-bath developer a lot of time, which is reusable. otherwise this can be a little developer-intensive for such few sheets.

[Wheelie52]

Thanks all for the very helpfull replies ... I think I'll start off tray developing and go from there. I've ordered some 5x7 trays and will dust the Crown off in the next few days and prepare myself for the big adventure! :)