DIY bulb/tubing for packard?

[rippo]

i just acquired a packard shutter that will be going on my 4x5 Toyo-View C (somehow). so now i can do all my weirdo lens projects, like my copy lenses in 105mm and 210mm focal lengths, as well as home-built lenses yada yada.

ever the cheapskate, it seems to me i don't have to buy a store-bought bulb for the shutter, do i? 1/4" tubing and a bulb on the end should suffice. the question is, where do i get this stuff locally? i'm tempted to convert one of my bulb-shaped blowers except i need it. any suggestions?

could even make this a foot pedal, freeing my hands up for...er...waving them around?

also, where is the pin located on the instantaneous versions of the packard? i see a pin on the piston itself, which seems to go in and out a little, but has no effect on behavior when i move the piston by hand. not having tubing and all, i can't test completely.

and...packard behind or in front of the lens? does it matter? for wide angle this can only go in front, but is there any advantage to having it behind as i've seen mentioned?

oh one more thing: i can see light through the shutter blades when viewed at approx 45° angle off center. normal? the blades have some fore-aft play in them, and never having owned one of these before, i don't know what's normal.

thanks.

[C. D. Keth]

When I used a packard I just bought a cheap pneumatic shutter release and snipped the part off the end that screws into a normal release socket. I think it cost 9 or 10 dollars and is like 12 feet long.

What you could also do is get an ear syringe from the drugstore and jam it into the end of the right size tubing. I bet it will friction fit just fine. if not a couple drops of super glue should do the trick.

[rippo]

ear syringe! good idea. enough air volume do you think?

yeah i know i could go buy one, but it's one of those things that seems like it ought be almost free.

i think we might even have a spare around the house, and perhaps even some tubing. i'll give that a try when i get home. thanks!

(other ideas welcome too!)

[C. D. Keth]

I've used ear syringes for this purpose before. They're usually larger than the bulbs made for this purpose.

[Jim Galli]

Call Don Erkl down at Industrial Photo Equip. Co. in Oxnard and see if he has any originals laying around.

[Gene McCluney]

You can use the bulb and tubing from a blood-pressure tester. You can use surgical tubing, or you can use vacuum tubing used in automobiles. The auto-supply and medical supply stores can be your friend.

[rippo]

Jim: I hadn't heard of Industrial Photographic Equipment before...I see a listing in Camarillo, and one in Ventura. I assume you mean the one in Camarillo? So what does this company do? I couldn't find a website, just a listing. when you say originals, you mean a vintage one?

(and you must be near me!)

Gene: yeah that's kind of what i was picturing, a blood pressure cuff tube and bulb. i didn't know if they were cheap or not though, nor whether the local drug store would have them or if i needed a medical supply place. i'll check around tomorrow as i'll have some time.

thanks all.

[rippo]

and does anyone know the answer to my other questions?

[Jim Galli]

Jim: I hadn't heard of Industrial Photographic Equipment before...I see a listing in Camarillo, and one in Ventura. I assume you mean the one in Camarillo? So what does this company do? I couldn't find a website, just a listing. when you say originals, you mean a vintage one?

(and you must be near me!)

thanks all.

Don Erkel
INDUSTRIAL PHOTOGRAPHIC EQ. CO
2451 Eastman Avenue, Unit 7
Oxnard
CA US 93030

Don sells on Ebay as Eyepec and always has interesting fare. I've not gotten to stop in yet but I plan to as he's an interesting guy. Sells a lot of high speed high dollar cameras like Unc Sam uses but often has old lenses from graphic arts cameras and a lot of what not. Jim

[Ernest Purdum]

Regarding Packard in front or behind the lens, the original mounting was behind, so that's usually easier. On the other hand, lots of lensboards are too small to mount a Packard behind, and pass the tube through, Making an appropriate box to mount the shutter in front has been done by several people and details are somewhere here on the Forum. Maybe in the articles indexed at the bottom of the Home page. If not try searching.

About the pin, the one on the piston is not the one that controls T & I. That pin goes through the lensboard (on normal mountings). I haven't got a Packard at hand to look at, but my recollection is that it is at about a 7:30 position below the shutter opening when looked at from the front.

I'm concerned about your seeing daylight through the blades, regardless of angle. If you can see it, maybe the film can too.

A foot pedal could work for Bulb and Instantaneous modes, but in order to open and leave the shutter open, you need to be able to let air in, usually done by taking your thumb off the end of the bulb.

The easiest way to get a bulb and tube would be to let me know your mailing address and how much tubing you want. I'll send them no charge.

[rippo]

wow, that's very generous of you, Ernest! i'm PM you with particulars on the tubing. thanks very much!

ignorant that i am, i didn't even know which was the front and back of this thing. i assumed the piston side was the front, but i guess if it's going behind the lensboard, that'd be the back. that would explain the felt on the other (front) side.

since i don't know which way is up either, i'll assume it's with the 'packard ideal' text the right way up on the piston. when looking at the piston side, there is a post about 2 o clock, roughly 1/8" dia. on the other side of the post is a small hole. oh! that's it! :) i wasn't trying it the right way before. stuck a paperclip in it and then used my lens-dusting bulb: 'instantaneous' response! cool. must remember to pack a paper clip with my camera kit.

if the only light hitting the shutter is coming from a lens in front of it, i think the gaps might be ok. i won't know until i try. if it doesn't work, i'll have to take it apart to see if i can fix it, or get another one.

ah, so this contraption can do 'time' exposures as well as bulb and instantaneous, huh? that hadn't even occurred to me. i figured i'd need some sort of clamp to keep air pressure while the shutter was open, and hope it didn't all leak out too soon. that makes more sense and now i see why the bulbs should have a hole in them.

the reason i ask about position is because my first experiment will be with a 105mm copy lens, mounted in a recessed lensboard on a 4x5. the packard won't go behind it, too close to the film plane. so it needs to go in front, and it covers the opening nicely. i could even just duct-tape it in place, with the piston out front. however this won't work for lenses that project further out, even with the recessed board. so i need to come up with a solution that works for all situations. possibly using velcro.

thanks again!

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Rippo, I have three packards for my large format cameras. 4x5,8x10 and 8x20. I have found that if you build a box with the front mounting standard on the box you can attach the lens to this. You have to make sure that the box is deep enough to accomodate the depth of the back of the lens. The packard is inside with the felt facing forward and the piston on the right side as you look at the lens board. This sounds confusing but look up how to build a packard box either here or on APUG and there are directions on how to do this. I am finishing up the one for my 8x20 and I'm in Ventura. Maybe we can meet somewhere and I can show you what I have. It helps to see the thing. Hard to describe properly.

Jim

[rippo]

hey jim, thanks for the info. searching on 'packard box' was what i needed! i eventually rediscovered Ash's Packard modification, which i'd seen before but wasn't even sure where (and it had no relevance to me at the time). i think i'll do something like that in future, although it won't work with short focal lengths such as my 105mm. that lens is probably a unique case though, as future barrel/process/copy lenses will likely be longer. perhaps i'll spring for another packard at some point. first have to see if this one works and isn't leaking light!

thanks for the offer to meet...i'm amazed that there's another LF/retro type in ventura! i've only been doing LF for about a year, and it's been completely in a vacuum.

[rippo]

and...Jim Galli: just saw your images in View Camera. very nice.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Rippo, I build cameras and have been shooting large format for a while. There is a lot of very nice moving water around here! If you need to see any of my stuff just let me know. The 8x20 should be done by the first week of October. All built by hand in my apartment.

Jim

[Geert]

Per front mounting a Packard shutter, I bought an extra compendium and mounted the packard upfront.
The compendium is a Plaubel and stable enough to avoid vibration.

I also replaced the bulb by this: http://www.hama.de/bilder/00005/abb/00005610abb.jpg

It has an opening in the bulb that you can close/open with your thumb for extra shutter speed control.

G

[rippo]

Jim F: yeah i'd be interested in seeing how you've attached your packards, and to compare the shutter blades with mine (which seem a bit floppy). i sent you a PM recently.

Geert: an 'extra' compendium? i don't even have *one*. :) but that's a good idea. as for the bulb, yes i was eying the ones i have, thinking i'd hack one. but i need both and couldn't afford to sacrifice one. i'll keep it in mind! thanks.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I just finished the Packard box for the 8x20. It is basically the front lens board frame with a box and the Packard mounted inside. I shot some pictures for all to see.

Jim

[rippo]

that looks great, Jim! you should repost in a new thread...people might miss it on this one as i've been boring them with my newbie packard questions. :)

btw, i've done a test and the packard works well. the light i can see through it at an angle doesn't seem to effect anything, at least in the configuration i tried. i had previously installed the 105mm copy lens in a recessed toyo lens board. to that i duct-taped the packard over the front, which turns out to be a really good fit. piston was on the outside.

it sure is hard to see what you're looking at with a wide angle like this. (hey, i'm a newb, remember?) i've got coverage for 4x5, but i failed to see that my severe swing moved past the edge of the circle of illumination. doh!

this was a 3 sec exposure at f/32.

i also made a point of pulling the darkslide and then letting the camera sit (in the bright shade) for a minute or two, to see if any light was sneaking through the packard's blades. all apparently is fine. here's the pic. not my best work, but this was a test after all. :)

http://www.inflatabl.com/photos/forum_art/trays%20(with%20vignette).jpg