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View Full Version : Jobo CPE/CPA/CPP2, and 120/4X5/8X10 Recommendations Sought!



audioexcels
24-Sep-2007, 22:43
Well,

Tis time again to do a search for the right Jobo for me. I sold off a CPP2 late model to a very nice person on the LF boards and kinda wish I had it back now:)! Here is what my goal is going to be and I'd like to keep price in mind, meaning, price of processor/drums/and of course the amount of developing chemicals required for the processing.

Here are my pre-requisites, or rather my plans:

For COLOR Film, I will develop: 120/220 and 4X5 film. I will also do an occassional Whole Plate and 8X10 in Color. I will likely end up doing about 20% of the whole plate/8X10 in Color with 80% with the smaller formats.

For Black and White, I think I'll do most all of my larger stuff Via Tray and smaller stuff with the Jobo, though I'm sure I can do a lot of the 4X5 with the Tray also.

My Production:

I will not be shooting a lot of larger format stuff, including 4X5. To put it into perspective, I'll probably shoot about 30 shots a month at the most, maybe a little more, likely a bit less of 4X5-8X10. I'll probably do about 50ish shots or more of 120/220.

1) Which Jobo processor would you recommend for me and why?

2) Which Jobo Drums would be recommended and again, why?

3) Regarding Drums, is the "expert 3000" series a superior drum, meaning, I cannot achieve similar results with the other drums?

4) In spite the higher cost of the expert drums, would they be paid off in the long run due to use of less chemicals OR are chemicals cheap enough that this is a negligable point?

5) Lastly, how critical is it to get a late model machine and what serial number machine would you in the least recommend buying?


Thanks All for your help. I really want the best bang for the buck and don't want to splurge for the CPA/CPP2 models, but if it is necessary and these are my only options, I'll have to deal with the extra expense.

Paul Ewins
25-Sep-2007, 03:59
Based on your requirements I would look for a CPP2+ because of the following:
a. You want to do colour, so fine temperature control is required. The CPP2 is better than the CPA, the ATL units will also achieve the right result.
b. You are doing low volumes, so the larger ATL units are overkill.
c. The smaller ATL1000 won't take expert drums, so although you can process six 4x5 sheets in a little 2521 drum, when it comes to whole plate or 8x10 you will be doing two sheets at a time in a print drum and hoping they won't slip around and scratch. A 3005 will do five 8x10 sheets at once.

I have three 3010 drums, three 3005 drums and one 3063 drum with four lids between them. Drums without lids come up on ebay occasionally and are cheaper, but the same lid fits all of these drums (and the 3006). I find the 3010 a lot easier to load than the 2509 reels that go in the 25xx drums. Yes, they do a better processing job than other drums, but quantifying how much better is impossible.

Chemicals are so much cheaper than film that I use them one shot if I can, just to be sure. This usually means that I would have the same amount of solution in either style of drum as this is the amount required to develop the amount of film in the drum.
i.e. if I used it at full strength I might need more developer to make sure that the film is completely covered. With dilute developer I have (more than) enough solution to cover the film and have enough developer to actually develop the film.

Nick_3536
25-Sep-2007, 04:51
From the list given you don't have much/any choice of drums IMHO.

You need either a 1500 or a 2500 series drum for the 120/220. I'd suggest the 2500 in case you need to do large volumes of 4x5. But that means adding 4x5 reels to the list along with smaller roll film reels. 50 exposures of 120 isn't much at all. Unless you're shooting 6x17 I guess. That's only 3 rolls of 6x45 or 5 rolls of 6x7. You can do that in one batch using a mid sized 2551 tank.

You're actually processing more film in the bigger formats. The big 2581 tank will do 18 sheets of 4x5 I think. But that thing is huge and won't work on 99% of the processors.

You'll likely want an expert drum for the 8x10 and whole plate unless your volume is low enough to use print drums. Then you can use the 2500 tank for 4x5.

Like I said you don't have a choice with the 120/220 stuff really. The 1500 tanks can take a little less chemicals then the 2500 tanks but it depends on how you load them. For example the 2551 tank needs at least 640ml of chemicals. That's for one 120 roll or six 120 rolls. If you're worried about chemicals then it's better to fill the tank with film. The smaller tanks tend to use more chemicals per roll.

audioexcels
25-Sep-2007, 05:22
From the list given you don't have much/any choice of drums IMHO.

You need either a 1500 or a 2500 series drum for the 120/220. I'd suggest the 2500 in case you need to do large volumes of 4x5. But that means adding 4x5 reels to the list along with smaller roll film reels. 50 exposures of 120 isn't much at all. Unless you're shooting 6x17 I guess. That's only 3 rolls of 6x45 or 5 rolls of 6x7. You can do that in one batch using a mid sized 2551 tank.

You're actually processing more film in the bigger formats. The big 2581 tank will do 18 sheets of 4x5 I think. But that thing is huge and won't work on 99% of the processors.

You'll likely want an expert drum for the 8x10 and whole plate unless your volume is low enough to use print drums. Then you can use the 2500 tank for 4x5.

Like I said you don't have a choice with the 120/220 stuff really. The 1500 tanks can take a little less chemicals then the 2500 tanks but it depends on how you load them. For example the 2551 tank needs at least 640ml of chemicals. That's for one 120 roll or six 120 rolls. If you're worried about chemicals then it's better to fill the tank with film. The smaller tanks tend to use more chemicals per roll.

First, thanks Paul and now Nick for your input. I look forward to hearing many other responses. For now, I'm going to respond here to you Nick:

I think you are right on about taking more 120/220 shots. With 4X5, I will not be taking enough shots to be processing more than 2-4 at a time maximum. With the larger stuff, I'd only do 1-2 shots per processing maximum. At the same time, I want to take full advantage of the chemicals by what you were saying in how it makes more sense to load up a reel with a number of rolls of 120/220 film vs. only 1. What's your suggestion for a processor in the Jobo line?

Nick_3536
25-Sep-2007, 05:41
The smallest processor won't handle Expert drums or even some of the midsized 2500 tanks. So I'd rule that one out. Other then that if your buying used I'd take whatever you can find a good price on.

If you are only doing 2-4 shots of 4x5 I'd normally lean towards the 2509N reel. With only 1-2 shots of 8x10 I'd also lean towards print drums instead of Experts. OTOH if in the future you decide to get an Expert who knows how hard it'll be to find.

Ted Harris
25-Sep-2007, 06:29
Not sure I agree that the ATL units are overkill if you have the room and the budget for one. With some searching, these days you can often find an ATL unit for the same or less money as a CPx unit. You need to plumb the unit working through a water temping unit to get best results and you need approximately a 5 foot by 4 foot space. If you decide to go the ATL route be caeful of the units prior to the ATL 2000 as parts are scarce or unavailable. The current ATL 2200/2300/2400/2500 and their predecessor the ATL 2000 share lots of parts so most parts for the 2000 are still available. The 2300 and up all have two chemistry lines so you can keep one going for B&W and another for color. Finally, once you have set your programs on an ATL, you push a button and come back when the film is done .... takes all the work out of it.

SamReeves
25-Sep-2007, 09:21
Hold onto your CPP-2 this time! They're going for about several hundred bucks on eBay right now. Be prepared to furnish your own service parts or find a dealer who has Jobo parts though. Omega-Satter (the current owner of Jobo analog line) doesn't give a crap about its analog customers ATM. :(

audioexcels
25-Sep-2007, 11:35
Hold onto your CPP-2 this time! They're going for about several hundred bucks on eBay right now. Be prepared to furnish your own service parts or find a dealer who has Jobo parts though. Omega-Satter (the current owner of Jobo analog line) doesn't give a crap about its analog customers ATM. :(

Ick...that doesn't sound too good at all!

So it looks like a CPA or CPP2. What serial number does everyone suggest that I look for in the least? 1XXX or do I try to find one that has 2XXX?

Thanks again everyone!

Ted Harris
25-Sep-2007, 13:09
Omega-Satter is not the owner. They are the US distributor. Sam is correct though that they have never bothered to learn much about the Jobo products they sell.

Bruce Watson
25-Sep-2007, 13:22
Based on your requirements I would look for a CPP2+ because of the following:
a. You want to do colour, so fine temperature control is required. The CPP2 is better than the CPA, the ATL units will also achieve the right result.
b. You are doing low volumes, so the larger ATL units are overkill.
c. The smaller ATL1000 won't take expert drums, so although you can process six 4x5 sheets in a little 2521 drum, when it comes to whole plate or 8x10 you will be doing two sheets at a time in a print drum and hoping they won't slip around and scratch. A 3005 will do five 8x10 sheets at once.

I have three 3010 drums, three 3005 drums and one 3063 drum with four lids between them. Drums without lids come up on ebay occasionally and are cheaper, but the same lid fits all of these drums (and the 3006). I find the 3010 a lot easier to load than the 2509 reels that go in the 25xx drums. Yes, they do a better processing job than other drums, but quantifying how much better is impossible.

Chemicals are so much cheaper than film that I use them one shot if I can, just to be sure. This usually means that I would have the same amount of solution in either style of drum as this is the amount required to develop the amount of film in the drum.
i.e. if I used it at full strength I might need more developer to make sure that the film is completely covered. With dilute developer I have (more than) enough solution to cover the film and have enough developer to actually develop the film.

What Paul says. A 3010 drum for 5x4 gives excellent results - absolutely smooth skies edge to edge. Well worth it IMHO, so you'd need a CPP2+ processor. That gets you the better temperature control you need for color as a bonus.

I too use solutions as one-shot. Even B&W fixer. The Jobo makes it easy to do, and the film is as clean and spotless as you could hope for.

audioexcels
25-Sep-2007, 13:40
What Paul says. A 3010 drum for 5x4 gives excellent results - absolutely smooth skies edge to edge. Well worth it IMHO, so you'd need a CPP2+ processor. That gets you the better temperature control you need for color as a bonus.

I too use solutions as one-shot. Even B&W fixer. The Jobo makes it easy to do, and the film is as clean and spotless as you could hope for.

What is the CPP2+ vs. the CPP2?

Bruce Watson
25-Sep-2007, 14:07
What is the CPP2+ vs. the CPP2?

Sorry, my bad. I'm confusing models in my head. I mean the CPP-2 (http://www.jobousadarkroom.com/products/cpp-a.htm).