What is the difference Copal No. 3 Vs 3s???

[Will Thompson]

I have several Copal No. 3 and one Copal No. 3s on the way.

Please, What is the s suffix for?


I tried the search but it is useless, I get no hits or thousands with no in-between.

Is there any way to use logical expressions in a LF forum search?

[Tony Lakin]

Hi
Lens threads in Copal 3 approx 58mm lens threads in Copal 3s approx. 56mm.
I hope this info. helps.
Regards
Tony

[Carsten Wolff]

Will, almost all dimensions differ:

....from the skgimes site:

COPAL #3 #3s
front thread M58-0.75 M56-0.75
back thread M58-0.75 M56-0.75
overall thickness 32 mm 28.6 mm
front to iris 17.7 mm 16.25 mm
mount thread M62-0.75 M61-0.75
lensboard hole 65 mm 64.1 mm
iris dia 45 mm 45 mm

Carsten

[Will Thompson]

Tony, Carsten, Thanks for the info.

Is there any functional difference as well?

[Carol Flutot]

No, they function the same, for the insides are exactly the same.

Carol

[Will Thompson]

Thanks Carol, Just curious, are you located in whittier?

[c.d.ewen]

FYI: I have an older shutter, marked Copal 3, that has only a 56mm lens opening, like the Copal 3S. I haven't checked the other dimensions to find out if they are the same as the Copal 3S. This older shutter is one with a silver face plate, rather than the all black of the modern shutter.

Charley

[gmoizant]

hello ,
"s " for small

bye

[Carol Flutot]

Thanks Carol, Just curious, are you located in whittier?

Yes Will, I am located in Whittier.

Carol

[dbendo]

Carol Are the f9 14" LD Artar cells a direct fit into the copal #3 shutter

[xkaes]

Will, almost all dimensions differ:

....from the skgimes site:

COPAL #3 #3s
front thread M58-0.75 M56-0.75
back thread M58-0.75 M56-0.75
overall thickness 32 mm 28.6 mm
front to iris 17.7 mm 16.25 mm
mount thread M62-0.75 M61-0.75
lensboard hole 65 mm 64.1 mm
iris dia 45 mm 45 mm

Carsten


I know this is an old thread, but I just ran across a Copal No. 3s -- which is only marked on the face as a No. 3 (apparently not unusual). Some are simply marked "Copal" with no "No." at all on the face.

Assuming it was a #3, I expected a 62mm retaining ring to fit. Since it was too wide, I assumed the shutter was a #3s. Checking on EBAY, sellers list the retaining ring as 60.5mm -- and that's what my crude measurement confirms.

I looked at S.K.Grimes, and while they have details for the #3 (and even the #2), I don't see any specs for the #3s.

And since Fuji never used the #3s, there is nothing in their literature either.

No wonder people get confused.

[Tracy Storer]

I have had Fuji lenses in #3-S shutters. FYI.


I know this is an old thread, but I just ran across a Copal No. 3s -- which is only marked on the face as a No. 3 (apparently not unusual). Some are simply marked "Copal" with no "No." at all on the face.

Assuming it was a #3, I expected a 62mm retaining ring to fit. Since it was too wide, I assumed the shutter was a #3s. Checking on EBAY, sellers list the retaining ring as 60.5mm -- and that's what my crude measurement confirms.

I looked at S.K.Grimes, and while they have details for the #3 (and even the #2), I don't see any specs for the #3s.

And since Fuji never used the #3s, there is nothing in their literature either.

No wonder people get confused.

[xkaes]

I remember someone telling me a long time ago that they had a Fuji lens that came with a #3s shutter. I think it was a 300mm or 360mm -- but I've never seen any mention of it in their literature, which always lists the front and rear element threads (which are different on the #3 & #3s).

I just checked and it was a 300mm f5.6 marked "W S" with a #3s shutter -- and had a very unusual 86mm filter thread (same as on the 360mm). There was also a W 300mm f5.6 with a 77mm filter thread that used the #3 shutter, and the only W S 360mm I've heard of had a #3 shutter as well.

None of the remaining W S lenses used a #3 or #3s shutter, so the S in W S has nothing to do with the 3s shutter.

Was your lens a 300mm W S by any chance?

[B.S.Kumar]

The older Fuji lenses, with writing on the lens bezel were mounted in Copal 3S shutters, initially in the white face models, then the black ones with the thin chrome rings and finally with the block type chrome rings.
Copal 3 shutters were used for the later lenses with writing on the outside of the barrel. However, I have seen a Fuji 250mm SF lens mounted in an all-black Copal 3S shutter.
Some of the 3S shutters were labeled as such, but mostly they were labeled Copal or Copal 3.

Kumar

[B.S.Kumar]

Copal shutter specs: https://skgrimes.com/shutters/

Kumar

[xkaes]

Some of the 3S shutters were labeled as such, but mostly they were labeled Copal or Copal 3.

Kumar

This might be the problem. Fuji called them simply Copal #3 because that was how they are marked -- even though they are a Copal #3s.

One point that confuses me on the S.K.Grimes web site is that they list the mounting thread on the #3s as 61mm, but all the EBAY sellers of retaining rings for the #3s list it as 60.4mm. Here's just one example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/271991528845

[Drew Wiley]

I've seen plenty of Fuji lenses in 3s shutters. The retaining ring outside diameter necessarily has to be larger than the lensboard hole diameter.

There are other differences between a Copal 3 and the older 3s. The 3s has a conspicuous extra lever, along with a multi-bladed aperture.

[B.S.Kumar]

This might be the problem. Fuji called them simply Copal #3 because that was how they are marked -- even though they are a Copal #3s.

One point that confuses me on the S.K.Grimes web site is that they list the mounting thread on the #3s as 61mm, but all the EBAY sellers of retaining rings for the #3s list it as 60.4mm. Here's just one example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/271991528845

It's not Fuji who labeled these shutters, but Copal who actually made the shutters. The outer thread diameter of the Copal 3S shutter I'm selling measures 60.6mm. Perhaps my measurement technique isn't very precise.

Kumar

[B.S.Kumar]

I've seen plenty of Fuji lenses in 3s shutters. The retaining ring outside diameter necessarily has to be larger than the lensboard hole diameter.

There are other differences between a Copal 3 and the older 3s. The 3s has a conspicuous extra lever, along with a multi-bladed aperture.

Can you explain about the extra lever? I don't see anything extra on any of my 3S shutters.

Kumar

[xkaes]

The outer thread diameter of the Copal 3S shutter I'm selling measures 60.6mm. Perhaps my measurement technique isn't very precise.

Kumar

That's closer to what the EBAY sellers are showing -- 60.4mm -- than what S.K.Grimes lists -- 61mm. Just seems odd to me. They can't all be accurate.

The #3s I have has four levers -- RED to cock the shutter (which pops up a RED tab), YELLOW to open the shutter, BLUE to release the shutter, and GREEN to set the aperture.

[B.S.Kumar]

That's closer to what the EBAY sellers are showing -- 60.4mm -- than what S.K.Grimes lists -- 61mm. Just seems odd to me. They can't all be accurate.

The #3s I have has four levers -- RED to cock the shutter (which pops up a RED tab), YELLOW to open the shutter, BLUE to release the shutter, and GREEN to set the aperture.

Those same levers are present on #3 shutters. I didn't understand what Drew meant by the extra lever on his Copal 3S shutter.

Kumar

[r.e.]

I know this is an old thread, but I just ran across a Copal No. 3s ...

The image is a screen capture from the Robert White site: https://www.robertwhite.co.uk/cooke-ps945-229-f4-5-large-format-soft-focus-lens-copal-3s-shutter.html

I've read that Cooke and Robert White moved to the 3s because the 3 was no longer available. The lens is now on backorder with the 3s.

244912

[B.S.Kumar]

For many years, the Fujinon SF 250mm lens was the only lens available in the #3S shutter, even though all the other large Fuji lenses were mounted in #3 shutters. The very last 250mm SF lenses were in all-black #3 shutters. Used #3S shutters are available.

Kumar