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View Full Version : Efke 8x10 : QC still a problem?



G Benaim
14-Sep-2007, 10:15
Hi all,

I'm about to get some more 8x10 film from freestyle, and was considering getting some efke to try, but have read lots of posts re qc problems w the sheet film. Is this still the case, or have all the problems been sorted out? Has anyone recently bought efke 8x10 from freestyle and gotten bad film? Thanks,

GB

Michael Kadillak
14-Sep-2007, 11:00
Hi all,

I'm about to get some more 8x10 film from freestyle, and was considering getting some efke to try, but have read lots of posts re qc problems w the sheet film. Is this still the case, or have all the problems been sorted out? Has anyone recently bought efke 8x10 from freestyle and gotten bad film? Thanks,

GB

What film are you currently using and where is it falling short to cause you to want to go this direction? If it is because of the fact that it is cheaper then I would simply state the facts with Efke. I have been told that the coating machines were built in the 1950's and the staff that runs the factory is relatively small. In the life cycle of a business it is clearly on the final turn.

If you are shooting 8x10 then clearly you are serious about image making. My advice would be to purchase the highest quality modern emulsions available and stay the course. In this regard I would highly recommend FP4+ and/or TMY. The time you allocate to learning how to use these marvelous emulsions will be time well spent because there will be zero worries about qualty control and you will never have to make another exposure to cover what you cannot possibly control.

I learned my lesson tha hard way as there is nothing quite as discouraging as finding yourself on the receiving end of the many defects that are possible and probable with Efke.

Just my $0.02

tim atherton
14-Sep-2007, 11:24
There are some who seem to have perennial problems with Efke film. There are also one or two who seem to have a continual war of attrition against Efke, sniping away whenever it's mentioned - though thankfully not on this list (most of the time I would take the comments on some other lists on this issue with a huge pinch of salt...).

Speaking personally, I have used both Adox and Efke PL100 in 4x5 and 8x10. Maybe 20 boxes of 4x5 and 15 boxes of 8x10 in the last 18 months.

I recently went through 5 boxes of 8x10 over the last couple of months

I haven't experienced any of the defects that a smallish number of people seem to mention.

No "debris" embedded in it, no missing notches, no banding (and I've been doing a certain amount of stuff with big skies, where you would expect it to show up).

The only problems I have had have been due to my own klutziness during processing - it is a little delicate, but I find it's really no easier to scratch when processing than say Tri-X or HP5.

I should add, this has simply been my experience.

(I have, however, recently had a box of Ilford FP4 8x10 that had thumbprints etched in the emulsion from the factory... so you never know what you'll get).

I also happen to use it because I really like the film and the feel and look it has processed in Pyrocat.

I like HP5 for some things, I dislike T-Max for the same reasons most other people seem to dislike it (what I would call it's "characterlessness" - [let the flames begin :) ])

I happen to personally really like the look of Efke 100, which is different from most other emulsions I have tried (as Tri-X is different from HP5 etc etc)

G Benaim
14-Sep-2007, 11:28
Michael,

The reason for wanting to try it is I've heard very good things about how it looks and how it you can increase contrast beyond N+1 for low contrast scenes. It's actually more expensive than the foma I've been using.

Tim,

Is there better qc w the adox over the efke, as far as you know? Where have you gotten your film? Thanks,

GB

tim atherton
14-Sep-2007, 11:38
Sorry, that was when J&C was selling it under the Adox name - it was all trademarks and distributors etc... (I've lost track of where the Adox/Efke thing is now)

The last xx batches over the last year or so I've got from Freestyle

davidb
14-Sep-2007, 11:43
I tried efke PL100 in 4x5 and found it soft and had some marks on the film. Sure it's a nice film but is it worth taking a chance?

scott_6029
14-Sep-2007, 14:28
I really like the film and have had no quality control problems to date. As far as expansion capability, I have not found it to be the best film for this. Perhaps others have.

Michael Kadillak
14-Sep-2007, 17:52
Michael,

The reason for wanting to try it is I've heard very good things about how it looks and how it you can increase contrast beyond N+1 for low contrast scenes. It's actually more expensive than the foma I've been using.

Tim,

Is there better qc w the adox over the efke, as far as you know? Where have you gotten your film? Thanks,

GB

My film curves with PL100 are as you said, very consistent with a film that expands but comparing apples to apples it does not hold a candle to T Max 400 as a film that will expand. TMY will build density to the moon as the film curve simply does not turn down.

When I hear people say that they cannot get expressive prints out of T Max 400 I say that they are not doing someting as optimally as they could because I honestly believe that it is the best film that is currently available. And when Kodak improves the grains structure to match a 200 speed film while maintaining it 400 ASA very soon, it could even get better. No, it will probably not really necessary for contact printers but small and medium format shooters should have a smile on their face. Kodak would not be spending money on R&D if they were not attempting to stay in the game.

Personally I feel that using the absolute best film available for as long as it can be purchased is a good investment in your photographic journey. I buy FP4+ and TMY and would purchase Fuji film if they made a good B&W emulsion. If the Chinese or the Russians made the best film I would purchase that in a country minute.

At the end of the day it is about making expressive photographs - nothing more...

David A. Goldfarb
14-Sep-2007, 19:07
Some of us just don't care for TMY. It's not strictly a density issue. The spectral sensitivity of TMY is different from other films, and it's just not to my taste. If it appeals to you, de gustibus non disputandem est, as they say.

Alex Hawley
14-Sep-2007, 19:15
At the end of the day it is about making expressive photographs - nothing more...

My feelings are very similar to Michael's. I'm one of the "small few" who was struck by the Efke QC problems. Took me a long time and several potentially excellent photos to figure out that the glitches in the negatives were beyond my control. I initially had very good results from PL 100 but after the first few sheets in the box, it went to Hell. So from now on its FP4 and TMY and I ain't lookin' back.

Colin Graham
14-Sep-2007, 19:46
I had a cross-country trip *-up by lot #510617, exp 01/2009. Coating chatter, and a consistent defect either, didn't catch it with my usual testing of the top and bottom sheet of each box. Just be careful. Nothing like 4 weeks of shooting down the tubes!

Jim Chinn
15-Sep-2007, 06:24
I shot Efke a couple of years ago in 4x5 and had no problems. With the possible closing of Ilford I stocked up on HP5 and FP4 and had not used Efke since. Recently Donald Miller has been posting some great images on APUG from a recent trip to Italy, shot on 5x7 Efke, processed in pyrocat HD. So with my Ilford supply running low, I am tempted to dip my toe back into the efke waters. I think I will buy a couple of boxes of 4x5 and if there are no problems get a box for 11x14.

Jason Miguel
18-Sep-2007, 09:26
If forest Gump was a photographer he may have said “life is like a box of Efke, you never know what you’re going to get!” I am new to this forum but not new to Efke or Adox in all sizes. I have found the look, feel, flexibility and coast of these films to be a plus but do not like the consistency. Some sheet's in a signal box of PL100 shoot at an ASA of 100 while others seem to need a rating of 64. I recently went back to shooting TMY-400 which is to me one of the best films around for shooting 8x10. Freestyle recently jacked up the price of Efke making TMY-400 only around $25.00 dollars more for a 50 sheet box of 8x10.

Jason Miguel Russell

tim atherton
18-Sep-2007, 09:43
I recently went back to shooting TMY-400 which is to me one of the best films around for shooting 8x10. Freestyle recently jacked up the price of Efke making TMY-400 only around $25.00 dollars more for a 50 sheet box of 8x10.

Jason Miguel Russell

B&H is cheaper than Freestyle for Kodak 8x10 film

John Bowen
18-Sep-2007, 13:23
And when Kodak improves the grains structure to match a 200 speed film while maintaining it 400 ASA very soon, it could even get better.

Perhaps this explains why Badger couldn't deliver my entire 8x10 TMY order. I ordered 5 boxes. After 3 weeks 2 boxes arrived with a note that the rest is back ordered. It has now been a month since the original order!!

Michael Kadillak
18-Sep-2007, 13:38
Perhaps this explains why Badger couldn't deliver my entire 8x10 TMY order. I ordered 5 boxes. After 3 weeks 2 boxes arrived with a note that the rest is back ordered. It has now been a month since the original order!!

Don't think that is the problem. The test roll film has not yet been delivered. Should be coming down the pike shortly.

Once the test results have been tabulated a decision will be made as to how to proceed forward from this point. Kodak has several ways it could proceed. If the results are not favorable - scrap the whole enchilada. If it is favorable offer the improved emulsion to roll film users only and keep the original TMY sheet film TMY as it currently is. Offer sheet film users the option for both formulations as I believe is the case with Tri X. Or any combination thereof....

Since Kodak is continuing to produce TMY at consistent production rates, the fact that it is on back order can only mean that it is selling. That is a very good thing. I am scheduled to talk with Kodak and will find outwhat is going on and I will report back on what I find out.

Cheers!

John Bowen
18-Sep-2007, 13:57
Michael,

I too, took the backordered issue as a positive. Any info on TMY ULF? I look forward to your findings.

Thanks

Michael Kadillak
18-Sep-2007, 14:36
Michael,

I too, took the backordered issue as a positive. Any info on TMY ULF? I look forward to your findings.

Thanks

The last few details to resolve the TMY deal are taking longer than I thought but I work on it every day and will continue to do so until the contract is signed and we can make the formal announcement. Replacing J&C is the easy part because John was his own worse enemy. That said things have a way of working out for the better given enough time.

Onward!

Michael Kadillak
19-Sep-2007, 14:46
Perhaps this explains why Badger couldn't deliver my entire 8x10 TMY order. I ordered 5 boxes. After 3 weeks 2 boxes arrived with a note that the rest is back ordered. It has now been a month since the original order!!

You may have been on to something John. Spoke to Kodak this afternoon and by George the backorder may be associated with physical changing the emulsion to the new and improved T Max 400 with the vastly improved grain structure. I am expecting that Kodak will make an announcement shortly.

Cheers!

nehartmannn
19-Sep-2007, 15:05
Why do you not try to use FOMA-film.... you can properly get this film form FOMA in US or from http://www.banse-grohmann.de/fotogra.htm . Ask for mr. Grohmann....

John Bowen
19-Sep-2007, 15:33
You may have been on to something John. Spoke to Kodak this afternoon and by George the backorder may be associated with physical changing the emulsion to the new and improved T Max 400 with the vastly improved grain structure. I am expecting that Kodak will make an announcement shortly.

Cheers!

Michael,

Thanks for following up!

Gene McCluney
19-Sep-2007, 17:34
Why do you not try to use FOMA-film.... you can properly get this film form FOMA in US or from http://www.banse-grohmann.de/fotogra.htm . Ask for mr. Grohmann....

One can get Foma film from Freestyle in the USA, as well as Foma private labeled as Freestyle.edu.ultra, at bargain prices. I use a lot of it, it is good quality, consistent film.