wetting agent

[robert fallis]

I'm trying to improve my developing of APHS litho film, a lot of pages suggest using a wetting agent, as part of the final wash, But no one says what the wetting agent is except a detergent, does any one know what it is?. and can I just use washing up liiquid?

bob

[lenser]

Hi, Bob.

I've always used Kodak's Photo Flo as a final dip and dunk before drying my film. It's not part of the wash water, but rather a final dip that removes the surface tension from the water and allows it to dry without any marks.

There are other alcohol based drying agents out there that work well too. Just read the directions for the right dilution and go for it.

Tim

[Andrew_4548]

It is possible to use washing up liquid as almost a last resort - it will break up the surface tension as required but I seem to remember reading something that it has other ingredients which are obviously used in washing dishes which might not be the most beneficial to film washing...

I've used Ilford wetting agent since I went away from washing up liquid - a small bottle will last years as you only need a drop or two in the water - I tend to add it to the last rinse cycle in the Jobo so it gets sloshed around and coats everything.

[Pete Watkins]

Bob,
I've never used litho film but after washing my film (sheet or roll) I rinse it in a dish of de-ionised water before I hang it up to dry. I've done this for a few years now and I've had no problems.
Pete.

[SamReeves]

Another vote for Photo-Flo here. Dip and dunk, and into the dryer.

[cyrus]

Wetting agent is just a surfactant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactant). The same as that which is used in soap or detergents. In fact I use just a tiny, tiny portion of a drop of dishwashing soap as a wetting agent - not enough to cause bubbles

[Brian Ellis]

Edwal makes, or used to make, a wetting agent called LFN. I liked it better than PhotoFlo because it didn't suds up like PhotoFlo tends to do.

[Padu Merloti]

I'm having problems with PhotoFlo. Well, I believe I am the problem. I think I'm using a solution too rich, because it gets very soapy and when I dry the negative, it gets stained (I can wipe it off, but I don't like to touch the negative after it's dry).

The bottle says 1 to 200 solution, but I'm having difficulties measuring it (haven't even tried). So, what is the practical approach (1 drop to how much water)?

Also, is mineral water ok for the last dip or it's better to be distilled water?

[Glenn Thoreson]

I consider Kodak's dilution rate to be way too strong. Photo Flo can, and will, make an awful mess on your film if it's too strong. Never, ever, save diluted Photo Flo for re-use. I find that 3 or 4 drops to a quart of water is ample. Use it once and discard it. Mineral water for final rinse???? Never heard of that. It doesn't sound like a good idea. Use distilled water. Don't rinse or squeegee after using Photo Flo, though. Just hang to dry.

[Padu Merloti]

I consider Kodak's dilution rate to be way too strong. Photo Flo can, and will, make an awful mess on your film if it's too strong. Never, ever, save diluted Photo Flo for re-use. I find that 3 or 4 drops to a quart of water is ample. Use it once and discard it. Mineral water for final rinse???? Never heard of that. It doesn't sound like a good idea. Use distilled water. Don't rinse or squeegee after using Photo Flo, though. Just hang to dry.


Thanks for the response... I'll try that next time.

The only chemicals that I re-use are the developer, fixer and hypo. All the others are discarded.

I still have to buy distilled water (what's the best place to get it), I only use mineral (regular aquafina or dasani) in lieu of tap water. The water is way too hard where I live, and I bet the film won't like that hard water.

[Vaughn]

I'm having problems with PhotoFlo. Well, I believe I am the problem. I think I'm using a solution too rich, because it gets very soapy and when I dry the negative, it gets stained (I can wipe it off, but I don't like to touch the negative after it's dry).

The bottle says 1 to 200 solution, but I'm having difficulties measuring it (haven't even tried). So, what is the practical approach (1 drop to how much water)?

Also, is mineral water ok for the last dip or it's better to be distilled water?

Yes, it sounds like you are using it too strong. It works well when mixed at proper strength or even a lot less dilute. You can just make up a gallon of working solution...1:200 would be 20 ml per gallon (4 liters to be exact), and use it as you need it. If you want to make it a little weaker, it would work fine mixed 15ml per gallon of water. It last indefinitely in a bottle at any dilution.

We use Photo-flo 2100 here at the university (it is normally used diluted at 1:2100). From this concentrate, I make a gallon of stock solution by adding 7 oz to one gallon water. This stock solution is then mixed at one ounce per gallon for a working solution...nice round numbers for our students to use!

Vaughn

[SamReeves]

Thanks for the response... I'll try that next time.

The only chemicals that I re-use are the developer, fixer and hypo. All the others are discarded.

I still have to buy distilled water (what's the best place to get it), I only use mineral (regular aquafina or dasani) in lieu of tap water. The water is way too hard where I live, and I bet the film won't like that hard water.

I have the same problem. Distilled is the way to go for a photo-flo dip and dunk session.

[evan clarke]

My brother in law worked at Ansco/Gaf, they used dishwashing soap..it works...EC

[jeroldharter]

I would not try to economize on a wetting agent. They are all very cheap and it seems like the bottles last forever. Try the Photographer's Formulary wetting agent. It comes in a bottle with a dropper spout so it is easy to measure out in small quantities. When I process 4x5 film, I wash it in an acrylic slotted washer and then dip each sheet briefly in a 5x7 tray of water with a few drops of wetting agent.

[Peter Collins]

I also find Kodak's recommended dilution ratio of 1:200 way too strong. :confused: Tends to form bubbles with the slightest disturbance. Try 1:400. ;)

[walter23]

I find Edwal's LFN wetting agent absolutely perfect for my negatives. I use one or two drops in the final rinse; no stains, no residue. I think it's a relatively volatile detergent-like compound (maybe a moderately long chain alcohol or something) so it seems to pretty much dissipate. The water here is very hard - tons of dissolved calcium, and I did have water stains the one time I didn't use the LFN. With the LFN stuff my negatives are perfect.

Comes in a small bottle, but it lasts forever.

[Ron Mowrey]

Do not use dishwasher detergent. It can be alkaline, and can contain dyes and fragrances. None of this helps your film.

Pure photo flo or an equivalent is neutral in pH and has nothing else to cause problems. The 1:200 dilution is actually just right for Photo Flo 200 and works just fine for me. It should be used with either tap or distilled water, never mineral water or hard water.

The Photo Flo is supposed to foam slightly.

Photo Flo 600 is used at 1:600 dilution and the Photo Flo 1200... Well, you get the picture. If you use the 600 at 1:200, then it will be too strong.

The 200 contains propylene glycol, but the 600 contains ethylene glycol and is therefore more toxic.

Photo flo can be reused as long as there is no suspended matter in the working solution. I usually filter it and it keeps on going.

Ron Mowrey