E6 chemicals: unhealthy for home processing?

[niubi]

Hi all,

Processing 4x5 here in Australia is expensive (approx. US $10 (ouch baby!)), so processing at home is a must. I have never processed slides before and I have heard that E6 chemicals are not safe for one's health nor for the environment.

For B&W 4x5, I am currently using a Jobo 3006 drum, manually rotating on a Jobo roller base. I don't have a darkroom and most of my processing is done outdoors in daylight (using a changing tent for film loading).

So questions:
1. Can I use the same setup for E6 without the chemicals affecting my lungs? I know maintaining temperature is crucial for E6 so is processing with the 3006 possible?
2. If I purchased a CPE-2 (or CPP-2 but maybe a bit too expensive!), would this be a healthier option in terms breathing less chemicals etc.

FWIW, I would be processing only Fujia Provia 100 (quickloads).

Please help.

Thanks.

[Greg Lockrey]

I've processed E-6 for about 35 years by hand and have suffered no ill effects to my knowledge. Just don't make a mistake and drink any of it.:eek: Using the Jobo will help with temperature control and agitation. I made up a makeshift processing station with Beseler drum base and Jobo tanks and also stainless steal tanks for smaller films. I have a temperature control valve for my water that I run into a waterbath tank to heat up the chemistry and also use that running water to do the rinsing. The most expensive single piece was the temperature control valve. The temps aren't really that tough to maintain. Just have the bath large enough to maintain temps for about an hour. Only the first couple of steps are "critical". The remaining steps aren't all that close anyway. You can get E-6 kits cheap enough to process 35 mm rolls for about $2.00.

[kalvino67]

Thanks Greg,

Is the 3 step E6 process (Tetenal one-shot kits) less harmful than the 6 step process?

[Greg Lockrey]

I wouldn't know that since I always used the Kodak 6 step.

[Gene McCluney]

The E-6 chemistry is no more or less harmful than b/w chemistry. Kodak (the originator of E-6) designed E-6 to be less harmful to the environment than previous color slide processes from them, and there have been further improvements over the years, such as eliminating formaldehyde from the final rinse. I have processed deep-tank E-6 since 1979 with no ill effects, and my bare hand goes into the chemistry of each step to raise and lower the rack that holds the cut-film holders.

The only chemical that is particularly pungent to the nose, is part B of the color developer replenisher, and I would, of course, as with all chemistry you mix up, have an adequate source of ventilation.

[kalvino67]

The only chemical that is particularly pungent to the nose, is part B of the color developer replenisher, and I would, of course, as with all chemistry you mix up, have an adequate source of ventilation.

I'm assuming I can just mix the chemistry in daylight/outdoors so there would not be a ventilation issue?

[kalvino67]

I'm assuming I can just mix the chemistry in daylight/outdoors so there would not be a ventilation issue?

....apologies niubi for hijacking your thread :)

[Gene McCluney]

I'm assuming I can just mix the chemistry in daylight/outdoors so there would not be a ventilation issue?

You bet, no part of the chemistry is "light sensitive". Mix in whatever light you want. There is really not much odor to almost all the components. And since the Kodak E-6 chemistry is all liquid concentrates that go into water easily, there is no lengthy mixing of each chemical required, as it would be if some of the components were powders.

[niubi]

Thanks everyone.

I'm surprised there isn't any health issues involved with these chemicals. I have read many posts which indicated exposure to E6 chemicals was unhealthy and not great for the environment to pour the chemicals down the drain when finished.

So, if all is ok in this regard, I suppose it's now just trying to find a way to maintain the temperature using my drum. Any inventive ideas?

[Gene McCluney]

Thanks everyone.

I'm surprised there isn't any health issues involved with these chemicals. I have read many posts which indicated exposure to E6 chemicals was unhealthy and not great for the environment to pour the chemicals down the drain when finished.

So, if all is ok in this regard, I suppose it's now just trying to find a way to maintain the temperature using my drum. Any inventive ideas?

There can be a health risk with any photo chemistry. I said in previous post that there is no particular specific extra danger to the use of Kodak E-6 chemistry over any other photo chemistry, and in some cases (such as Ilfochrome/Cibachrome) chemistry, the E-6 chemistry is more benign. All photo chemistry has toxic components that could be harmful to a person if taken internally. Don't drink any of them. Wash your hands when done mixing or using. Don't contaminate one chemical with another. Just use common sense darkroom practice and you will be just fine.

[Gene McCluney]

As one additional comment..the small amounts you discard from home processing will in no way effect your municipal waste disposal system, or in general, will not harm your septic system (if that is what you use). It is only when you get into the very large disposal issues of a large-volume laboratory that you have to be concerned. We're talking about hundreds of gallons a week. This subject of chemistry disposal for amateur processing was well and comprehensively covered in back issues of Darkroom Techniques by their resident photochemical engineer, and the general consensus was that there is no need for concern in the small quantites used for home processing.

[kthompson]

color dev is about the worst step I guess. it can cause skin problems, of course ideally you wouldn't get any of it on you...the color dev B as noted somewhere above, is pretty noxious. I used to mix up several gallons at a time of E6 from those 5 liter kits for a wing lynch machine (held 5 gallons) and I really hated mixing up the color developer for that reason. Also because in our process, we usually added sodium hydroxide to it, so that was another chemical that needed to be treated with respect. Sometimes, we had to use sulfuric acid as well-- the pH would drift in the tanks over a week or so. we would run control strips, and had to tweak the pH this way--by adding acid or base to the CD in the tank. real PIA.

I personally wouldn't characterize E6 as being the same as b/w, unless you were opening the comparison up to pyro and toners etc. When you mix up the chemistry, be very careful to do it the same way each time, and use the right amounts of chemicals to the water. specific gravity is a big issue in regards to color balance. when you process in tubes, you often dilute the reversal bath to 60%, although with the kodak 5 liter kit you may not have to. we always had to, before & after they reformulated, or else we'd run out of control. They also have eliminated the prewet, but again, you may have to for temp control.

when you mix up the chemistry--it needs to be mixed well, but not vigorously. with the color dev--the part A will be a sorta light yellow color, when you add B, it turns purple-blue. Add the B very slowly while stirring--too fast and it will precipitate and turn the color dev reddish-purple. The CD should clear upon standing, if you mix it up right, it will do this. If not--don't use it, it's oxidized. Bleach is really the only abuse tolerant chemical used in E6, but fix is pretty normal also. The rest of the steps are finicky, but the final rinse now is much more benign than the stabilizer was.

[SamReeves]

My experience with E-6 at home has been pretty darn good. Just don't inhale stock reversal or pre bleach solutions. That will give you a nasty wake up call you may not be expecting! ;)

[Geert]

So, if all is ok in this regard, I suppose it's now just trying to find a way to maintain the temperature using my drum. Any inventive ideas?

Niubi,

I process my E6 at home without rotary processor, using the Tetenal 3-bath kit. I use a bucket, large black tray and the bathtub equipped with a thermostatic faucet. I use both Paterson tanks (for 120) and JOBO print drums (for 4x5 on the 2509n reels).

Since I don't have a series 3000 drum, I don't know how it works for changing chems and washes.


What I do is the following:

- set the water temperature to 38 degr.
- put 1st dev., color dev and bleach/fix in a small bucket that receives the running water. Add a thermometer to check the temperature at wish. This bucket is just high enough so the bottle caps of the chemistry are above water level.
The bucket is placed in a large black tray, big enough to accept your drum laying on its side.
- stabilizer does not get warmed.

During the whole developing time, the warm water keeps running softly, so you have the water at temperature for the intermediate washes.
The tank is always placed into the large tray, that is filled by the overflowing water from the chemicals' bucket. The overflow from the tray goes into the bathtub.

I will try to make a picture of my setup next time, if you wish.

When the chemistry is at temperature, dunk the drum into the tray to fill it up with water at temperature for the prewash/preheat of film and tank.

Greetings,
G

[John Quinn]

Niubi,
The cost of developing E6 in Adelaide forced me to start home developing.
I have a few reservations about the safety of the solutions, thus I am careful to avoid contact with the skin. I do the processing using 3010 drums on a CPP processor, I set it up on my back patio, and thus avoid breathing the fumes.
If you are using your 3006 tank I do not think you will be able to use a CPE - you will need either a CPA or a CPP.
I am not sure of the present situation, but I do know that about 12 months ago it was pretty hard to find either a CPP or a CPA ( new or used) available for sale in Australia.
You will find the the processing cost per 5 x 4 is less than $2 per sheet - when using the Kodak kit.
The developers in the kit are subject to degradation by oxidization once opened. They have a very limited life span. When I get a new kit I repack the developer solutions into 100ml bottles ( amber bottles and filled to the top) and make up working solutions in 1 litre lots - saves wastage and keeps the cost down.
None of the photographic dealers in Adelaide now keeps E6 kits in stock, so I have to preorder - it may or may not be the same elsewhere.
I find that if you are systematic - it is easy to get great results - it really is quite "idiot proof"
John

[niubi]

Niubi,
The cost of developing E6 in Adelaide forced me to start home developing.
I have a few reservations about the safety of the solutions, thus I am careful to avoid contact with the skin. I do the processing using 3010 drums on a CPP processor, I set it up on my back patio, and thus avoid breathing the fumes.
If you are using your 3006 tank I do not think you will be able to use a CPE - you will need either a CPA or a CPP.
I am not sure of the present situation, but I do know that about 12 months ago it was pretty hard to find either a CPP or a CPA ( new or used) available for sale in Australia.
You will find the the processing cost per 5 x 4 is less than $2 per sheet - when using the Kodak kit.
The developers in the kit are subject to degradation by oxidization once opened. They have a very limited life span. When I get a new kit I repack the developer solutions into 100ml bottles ( amber bottles and filled to the top) and make up working solutions in 1 litre lots - saves wastage and keeps the cost down.
None of the photographic dealers in Adelaide now keeps E6 kits in stock, so I have to preorder - it may or may not be the same elsewhere.
I find that if you are systematic - it is easy to get great results - it really is quite "idiot proof"
John

You are right John. The CPE is not compatible with the 3006 drum and the Jobo processors are scarce in Australia. I have someone in Melbourne who may consider selling their CPA (but no lift) which may be the way to go. I have considered ebay but postage for this item is a killer plus most auctions are in North America and I will have to buy a voltage transformer of some kind to be compatible with the Oz system.

Based on everyone's feedback (thanks to everyone!!) I'm feeling more at ease that slide processing is do-able w/out dying in the process.

....now if I can only find that bargain scanner....

Cheers.