Film Loading Problems

[alec4444]

Seems like such a simple task, yet I'm having incredible problems!

I got a new 5x7 camera and I snagged some Lisco Regal filmholders from flea bay and I purchased some old Kodak Vericolor III from a forum member a while back. So I go into my "darkroom" (read: bathroom) to load the film. Slide the first sheet in, and when I reach the end the film edge nearest the flap doesn't drop into the holder. On the side of the flap that's toward the film there's a bar that is supposed to hold the film to the inside of the holder....and with this film it's bowing the edge of the film. I try another sheet on another holder....same thing. On and on through all of them. I decided to sacrifice the last sheet to have a peek in the light - make sure I wasn't loading it incorrectly. And sure enough, it's as though the film is ~ 1mm too long.

So what do I do? If I force the edge in the center of the film bows outward (badly at that). If I push the flap in really hard the edge of the film bows slightly inward. I have no tools to trim the film down.

And in the long term......is this a problem with the film, or the holder?? I'm wondering if I'm going to have this problem with other films on an ongoing basis.

Thanks for your help!
--Alec

[Capocheny]

Alec,

Waste a sheet of film and load the holder in the light... take a look at "why" a sheet of 5x7 film isn't fitting into a 5x7 holder. There has to be a logical reason for this.

Isn't there a European version (??) of this format?

I've not had any problems with the 5x7 holders I have. They're used with Ilford and Kodak films.

Good luck on resolving the issue...

Cheers

[alec4444]

Waste a sheet of film and load the holder in the light... take a look at "why" a sheet of 5x7 film isn't fitting into a 5x7 holder. There has to be a logical reason for this.

Yup, did that:


I decided to sacrifice the last sheet to have a peek in the light - make sure I wasn't loading it incorrectly. And sure enough, it's as though the film is ~ 1mm too long.


Secondly, isn't there a European version (??) of this format?

And just checked now: Lisco holder reads "5x7" and film reads "5x7 / 12.7mm x 17.8mm" so it's clearly not 13 x 18. And if Kodak was to be off a bit I'd think they'd make it shorter not longer!!!

I'll shoot the 5 sheets I have loaded with the inward curve and see how they fare...

--A

[John Kasaian]

Are you getting the film under the lips that seperate it from the gark slide? Smetmes it is easy to get the film in the worng "slot" Try loading your sacraficial sheet of film again and sllide the darklide home and see what happens. If you feel resistence when inserting the darkslide then thats likely the cause.

[Michael Graves]

I've been shooting 5x7 for several years now. It's my favorite format. And until recently I had never encountered Alec's problem. However, I bought some infrared film that did exactly what he's describing. Just a sliver too long to drop down in. Haven't processed any yet to see what effect it will have. But I suspect that it will have some effect unless we shoot at very small apertures.

[scott_6029]

Sometimes it doesn't slide into the groove in the bottom of the holder. i take my finger and run it along the bottom edge slightly and it will allow it to then slide under the end flap. It has not damaged the film in any way. Watch out for finger nails however.

Waste a sheet of film and do it in the light.

[alec4444]

I've been shooting 5x7 for several years now. It's my favorite format. And until recently I had never encountered Alec's problem. However, I bought some infrared film that did exactly what he's describing. Just a sliver too long to drop down in. Haven't processed any yet to see what effect it will have. But I suspect that it will have some effect unless we shoot at very small apertures.

Glad I'm not alone. I'll let you know how it turns out. I'm testing this film out before our weekend next week to make sure I don't end up with a bunch of crumby images. I'm not worried about the side being in focus, more concerned about the visual distortion it might leave. The real bummer is that I have ~ 150 more sheets of this film. I'm thinking about filing down one or two holders specifically for this film....

--A

[eddie]

alec,
bring the sacrificed film and a holder on sat and lets look at it. i am going to go out on a limb and say that kodak cut it correctly. it must be the fit in the holder.

eddie

[Marko]

Another way to check if it is film or holders might be to get a new box of film, preferably different brand, and see if the same thing happens.

[alec4444]

Update: Ilford FP4 Film fits fine. I think the Kodak Vericolor Film is slightly larger... Should get back pics today or tomorrow from the lab - I'll see how it fared.

--A

[Gene McCluney]

Update: Ilford FP4 Film fits fine. I think the Kodak Vericolor Film is slightly larger... Should get back pics today or tomorrow from the lab - I'll see how it fared.

--A

More than likely, the Vericolor is a bit thicker than FP4, thus making it more difficult to fit under the retaining slots on each edge. I have found that with age, sometimes film holders can build up debris under the long slots, and the film will not slide in easily. You can take a business card or wasted sheet of film, and run this thru the slots to clean them out. If your film buckles out, then it can catch on the darkslide and at the least become scratched when you replace the darkslide, and worst-case the dark slide will actually push the film out and you will have wasted a sheet.

[alec4444]

Thanks, Gene, I'll check that out. But isn't the film end supposed to drop in versus being slotted in? I understand that there is a slot, but in past experience the film had some wiggle room from left to right and didn't necessarily sit in the slot unless I held it under....

Picked up the Kodak Vericolor III film. The fact that the edge had a curl is barely noticeable....in some cases it's not noticeable at all. Color isn't bad for film that expired in 1999, but it's been kept frozen since then.

I'm still thinking about modifying a holder. And yes, I'll bring a sheet of the film and a holder to this weekend's excursion for those present to witness. :)

Cheers!
--A

[Gene McCluney]

In cut-film holders the film slides UNDER rails top and bottom, as you slide the film in. The film should slide in until it is fully inserted and the end of the film clears the end of the holder by about 1/4 inch, allowing you to fold the flap down over it. If you are not sliding the film in under the rails, then you are not loading the holders correctly.

[Ole Tjugen]

And just checked now: Lisco holder reads "5x7" and film reads "5x7 / 12.7mm x 17.8mm" so it's clearly not 13 x 18. And if Kodak was to be off a bit I'd think they'd make it shorter not longer!!!


The nominal size of 13x18cm film is 127mmx178cm, which unfortunately happens to be the same as 5" by 7"

This goes all the way back to plate holders and film adapters, and is an eternal source of irritation. To make things worse I have Ilford 18x24cm film which won't fit in a 13x18cm film adapter for plate holders, and Forte 13x18cm film which fits in 5x7" holders but drops out of 13x18cm.

Especially with 13x18cm / 5x7" I have learned that it might be worth sacrificing a sheet from each box to find out what size holder it really fits.

[Gene McCluney]

If you have "standard" type Lisco, Fidelity, or RiteWay film holders in 5x7 size, they should accept all 5x7 cut film from major makers like Kodak, Ilford and Fuji. It doesn't matter if it is color or black and white film.

[Iga]

Yup, did that:





And just checked now: Lisco holder reads "5x7" and film reads "5x7 / 12.7mm x 17.8mm" so it's clearly not 13 x 18. And if Kodak was to be off a bit I'd think they'd make it shorter not longer!!!

I'll shoot the 5 sheets I have loaded with the inward curve and see how they fare...

--A

Hi !
European 13x18 actual size is 128 x 178mm, at least Fomapan 100 which I'm using. 5x7 film is shorter, so it sounds as you are trying to load 13x18 film in 5x7 holder ?
Best,
Igor.

[alec4444]

If you have "standard" type Lisco, Fidelity, or RiteWay film holders in 5x7 size, they should accept all 5x7 cut film from major makers like Kodak, Ilford and Fuji. It doesn't matter if it is color or black and white film.

I'd quite agree, but it seems I have a case against that! :eek:

Photographic proof attached.

--A