About Those WP Cameras

[Mike Castles]

There have been quite a few post about WP cameras lately, and Clay has even started his own blog (quite nice I might add) about the format. Must admit I have no idea (or did not :) ) no what all the fuss was about........Until today.

Went to a local camera show here in the area (FW/D - Ft. Worth/Dallas, TX) and there was this old wood bellows camera just sitting at the end of a table. No GG, not looking to rough considering the age of said camera. Note to self, that looks like a WP camera (to small to be an 8x10) - off to look around. Next pass around the room, one never makes just one pass - or 2 for that matter, look again at said camera - bellows look so-so, and what would I do with a WP camera anyhow - the tag on the front of the camera say Universal - Rochester Optical Company. It really looks like a nice camera, but no film holders...hmmmmm.

So, may the third pass and you know what happens next...stop ask seller what he wants....really (not bad I am thinking - maybe pick it up, do a little restore and flip the camera and make a little off of it or help someone who is wanting a fixer upper WP camera). Well it is sitting here at the house now, have not checked the bellows yet, but have to say it is really a nice camera. Not near as heavy or as big as the Korona 8x10, and no where near the Eastman No. 2 7x11...and hey that 6.5x8.5 is really not as square as the 8x10, not quite like the 7x11 (which I love) but starting to think maybe I may like this WP....oh Great, another format....somebody Help!!!

Of course it is going to need a little TLC, but maybe not that much...some polish here and there, a little repair here and there...maybe a new bellows.

So are WP flim holders impossible to find, and film what about film for these beast - though it really isn't a beast - it folds up into this real nice compact package, and I have such a soft spot for cameras that over 100 years old....I think I'm in trouble hear.

See pics below

[Alex Hawley]

Looks like you're gearing up for some glass plate work Mike!

[Matt Magruder]

Mike "the photo-treasurer hunter"

good find.

PS: if you want someone to stumble through wetplate learning Ill join you :)

[Jim Galli]

Looks like a dandy. I don't know if that early one will take the ordinary Eastman style holders or not. Good luck and have some fun with it.

[Mike Castles]

Thanks Guys, I think it is going to be some fun.

Jim, any hints on how to find if the Eastman style holders will work - short of finding one and trying it? Now to start a search for holders - the GG will be easy enough to replace and most of the woodwork needed looks to be possible with my limited skills.

A little polish for the wood, the brass knobs could use some re-conditioning or replacing and of course the bellows has not be tested yet - but after replacing the bellows on the 7x11 Eastman No. 2, I know that is possible. Just need to locate some film and film holders (though I could just cut some 8x10 film down if need be.

[Jim Galli]

Thanks Guys, I think it is going to be some fun.

Jim, any hints on how to find if the Eastman style holders will work - short of finding one and trying it? Now to start a search for holders - the GG will be easy enough to replace and most of the woodwork needed looks to be possible with my limited skills.

A little polish for the wood, the brass knobs could use some re-conditioning or replacing and of course the bellows has not be tested yet - but after replacing the bellows on the 7x11 Eastman No. 2, I know that is possible. Just need to locate some film and film holders (though I could just cut some 8x10 film down if need be.

Contact Oren Grad (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/member.php?u=1669). He took all the measurements from different folks and compiled the standard for the new ones.

[Sandeha]

Mike, much easier if you just get a new springback and glass made for the camera - that way you'll be able to use the old Kodak film holders.

Someone here does it.

[Jeremy Moore]

Mike, I've got some film holders at the house if you want to test the out.

[Rob_5419]

Cool! What a gem in a thrifty camera shop discovery! Just the way whole plate should be; obscure - hard to see the point of, until you actually have hands-on experience, it all falls into place. Welcome to the whole plate photographic renaissance ;)

My eyesight isn't too good from here, but it looks like your camera back clips and closes with a hinge, in which case it might be a bookform type dry plate holder, no? If there are two vertical grooves on right and left of the margin of the back to hold a film plate holder, this would confirm it. It's clearly an American model in any case, so the standard is different from what we know over here.

Would be good to have a sticky for resources like:

1. Source for brass geared knobs and screws
2. The name of the Hawaiian guy who does bellows repairs (can't remember!)
3. Groundglass supplier (is that Satinsnow?)
4. Name of the person who changes older plate camera backs to modern spring back
varieties.

I see some of the whole plate guys in England are getting into ISO 25 Wephota film. Maybe if you need any help importing a box or two of film come closer to the time, you'll have a whole forum to help you out with.

Enjoy the journey - we ain't in it for the fumes ;)

[David Karp]

Cool! What a gem in a thrifty camera shop discovery! Just the way whole plate should be; obscure - hard to see the point of, until you actually have hands-on experience, it all falls into place. Welcome to the whole plate photographic renaissance ;)

My eyesight isn't too good from here, but it looks like your camera back clips and closes with a hinge, in which case it might be a bookform type dry plate holder, no? If there are two vertical grooves on right and left of the margin of the back to hold a film plate holder, this would confirm it. It's clearly an American model in any case, so the standard is different from what we know over here.

Would be good to have a sticky for resources like:

1. Source for brass geared knobs and screws
2. The name of the Hawaiian guy who does bellows repairs (can't remember!)
3. Groundglass supplier (is that Satinsnow?)
4. Name of the person who changes older plate camera backs to modern spring back
varieties.

I see some of the whole plate guys in England are getting into ISO 25 Wephota film. Maybe if you need any help importing a box or two of film come closer to the time, you'll have a whole forum to help you out with.

Enjoy the journey - we ain't in it for the fumes ;)

-Geared knobs and screws: Try Richard Ritter
-Bellows guy: A thread indicates he disappeared. Try Western Bellows in CA, and Camera Bellows in the UK. Jim at Camera Bellows replaced the old bellows on my WP Improved Seneca.
-Groundglass: Yep, Satin Snow
-Change camera backs: Try Richard Ritter

Hope this is helpful.

[Mike Castles]

Thanks for the input everyone, it has been helpfull. Should clarify, the camera is not a Wet Plate camera, but Whole Plate taking film holders, though this model did come with a wet plate back.

The knobs are is good (but not very good) conditionand will need to be replated (they appear to be pot metal under the brass coating) so that will save me from finding someone to make new knobs (which might be possible, but a bit pricey). The wood repair should not be major just need to fabricate the bracket that the back sits in.

yes to Dave, have Satin Snow glass in all the other view cameras so why not give Dave a bit more work to do (sorry Dave).

The camera back should be OK, just need to find some metal pins to replace the 2 that are missing on one side and the other 2 that have been replace with screws - the previous owner was not very interested in a correct repair it seems. May need to fill some of the screw holes with wood dowel, then drill new holes for the correct screw size.

Will have to wait close the camera up good (film holder and lensboard) before I can check the bellows for light leaks.

Keep those ideas coming, always open to what others have done or are doing with these older cameras.

[big_ben_blue]

Nice camera - I got a WP Universal too :) .

Mine is missing a small piece of wood though. Could you maybe post a picture of the endpiece of the front extension please? That would help me greatly with rebuilding mine.

Thanks, Chris

[Mike Castles]

Not a problem Chris, just to verify what you need a pic of, you need one showing the endpiece of the front (not the front standard) correct? If you look at one of the pic's posted you can almost make out the screws in the wood that hold that piece in place.

Let me know and I will try to get the pic's posted this evening. Oh, and thanks for the comments, look forward to hearing your thoughts on the camera, since I have just started to explore this one.

[Jeremy Moore]

Will have to wait close the camera up good (film holder and lensboard) before I can check the bellows for light leaks

Mike. Cover the back opening with opaque paper (black foamcore like you're gonna need for that map ;) ). Wedge a couple of hand towels around a flashlight in the lensboard hole. Turn on the flashlight. Turn off the lights.

[Mike Castles]

Thanks Jeremy...good idea.

Chris, here are a few pics of the front - let me know if they help or not.

[Bernard Kaye]

I metr you at the show in Grapevine; you have your work cut out for you. If anything WP is seen by me, I will notify you. Enjoy. Bernie

[Ernest Purdum]

Congratulations. The Universal was one of Rochester's nicer cameras. Jeremy's offer of holders to try out sounds like the best idea right now. I'm guessing that you will find that most holders meant for spring-backs will work.

[big_ben_blue]

Mike - Thanks for the help; the photos were close, but from the wrong end:D
I would need a photo of the other end of the extension (see below).

My Universal is different in the layout of the knobs and such. Looks like the company freely exchanged parts between their different models (Universal, Monitor, Carlton,...).

Cheers, Chris

[Mike Castles]

Mike - Thanks for the help; the photos were close, but from the wrong end:D
I would need a photo of the other end of the extension (see below).

My Universal is different in the layout of the knobs and such. Looks like the company freely exchanged parts between their different models (Universal, Monitor, Carlton,...).

Cheers, Chris

Darn, not much help then was I - will take another one and post when I get the chance. But I can tell you there is a notch in the brass (or should I say brass plated) where you have the arrows pointing on each side. On mine there is another piece of brass plated metal that spans across the bed. It will be easier to see than explain I think. But yes the are difference between the two, so I think you are correct that they used what was on hand when building them...or for the short span they were made . This link (http://www.fiberq.com/cam/roc/univ.htm) might help as well.

[Mike Castles]

I metr you at the show in Grapevine; you have your work cut out for you. If anything WP is seen by me, I will notify you. Enjoy. Bernie

Hey Bernie, it was nice to meet you. May have the work cut out for me, but what nice work it will be...more fun than the day to day work. Thanks for keeping an eye out for WP for me.

Best,
Mike