XRay Film?

[Lenny Eiger]

I hate the current state of sheet film. This thin emulsion, sharp, but not juicy, film we are all forced to use - because every company has decided this is what people want to use. I guess I am not "all people."

Now, before you all start - many of us will disagree on what kind of print we want to make. I know some of you love TMX, but I think its pure unadulterated garbage, unsuited for my purposes (might be great for yours). I am very experienced, I know all about different developers, their components and film and what they do. I have been using Efke and a little FP4 and souping in D-23. Results all over the board.

I want smooth and luscious, like the Tri-X of old (FP4 in its original state was great also). Since none of this is available, I am wondering if any of you have tried XRay film - I figure it's likely to have a lot of silver. There was an older film called Graphic Arts film that had tons of it as well. Are there other specialty use films that anyone that has had experience with them can suggest? And where do you get this stuff?

Please don't tell me to use Pyrocat or other developers, or film from China. I've already tried all that, I know what it does and doesn't do. I'm really curious about specialty films and if anyone has had any positive experience. Thanks in advance.

Lenny
EigerStudios

[Ed Richards]

Lenny,

Given that you are looking for something that seems to be somewhat different, sounds like the best bet would be just buy some and try it. Since I like TMAX, I am not sure my liking X-ray film would tell you much useful. Here is some info:

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0036bl

[Lenny Eiger]

Lenny,
Given that you are looking for something that seems to be somewhat different, sounds like the best bet would be just buy some and try it. Since I like TMAX, I am not sure my liking X-ray film would tell you much useful. Here is some info:
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Ed, Thanks. Nice, direct info, I love it. ISO 1 or 2 doesn't seem very useful.... I doubt the lack of panchromatic sensitivity would affect that much.... altho' I don't really know, not having used it myself.

Anyone know any other options? I know there is military film they use for shooting from very high up - but I have no idea where to get it. Anything else? Anyone?

TIA

Lenny

[David A. Goldfarb]

There's a guy on eBay who regularly sells Plus-X Aerial film in 5" and 9.5" rolls, and there are people who cut it down for use in sheet film holders. It has some extended red sensitivity to reduce the filter factor for red and yellow filters, which would commonly be used to cut through haze at high altitudes, but it's on a thinner base than regular sheet film.

[wclavey]

There are several people here that are working with x-ray film. I have just started my work - - I have finished my testing and am now moving into using it on a project. It has interesting properties, such as emulsion on both sides, so highlights like to bloom more than they would on regular film, but that suits the project I am working on just fine.

You can search for an x-ray film thread here within the last 60 days by Gene McCluney and see his work. That is who got me started on it... and I'm sure there are others. Here are the last 2 of my test images on x-ray film that convinced me that I had nailed the exposure correctly.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m149/wclavey/WMC-img_207sm.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m149/wclavey/WMC-img_206sm.jpg

[Lenny Eiger]

WClavey,

That's impressive. I checked out Gene's thread and seems some great info is there... your 207sm is also impressive.

What do you think the ISO might be?

Thanks,

Lenny

[wclavey]

I am using full speed blue sensitive film and have been metering at 100 and developing in Diafine. I think that others are shooting this same film in the 50-100 range as well. I have not tried the green sensitive or the half speed films.

[Gene McCluney]

I want smooth and luscious, like the Tri-X of old (FP4 in its original state was great also). Since none of this is available, I am wondering if any of you have tried XRay film - I figure it's likely to have a lot of silver.
Lenny
EigerStudios

I, of course use X-ray film from time-to-time. However, I wouldn't consider it "silver rich" by any means. I wish to comment on your desire for "silver rich" films. Older film manufacturing had more silver that did not get turned into image, and was fixed out. Modern b/w film (of any kind) has more silver that gets turned into the final image. Manufacturers have learned how to get more of the silver in the emulsion to react to light and development and become the final image. Therefore in the final developed image, there is at least as much "silver" as there ever was, even if the emulsion when coated has less silver to start with.

You can still get Tri-X in popular sheet sizes. It should give you very similar results to the way Tri-X has always worked.

Graphic arts films, being designed for high-contrast work are very thin emulsions, not a lot of silver., however they can be used for full-toned photography with compensating development.

[Lenny Eiger]

I, of course use X-ray film from time-to-time. However, I wouldn't consider it "silver rich" by any means. I wish to comment on your desire for "silver rich" films. Older film manufacturing had more silver that did not get turned into image, and was fixed out. Modern b/w film (of any kind) has more silver that gets turned into the final image. Manufacturers have learned how to get more of the silver in the emulsion to react to light and development and become the final image. Therefore in the final developed image, there is at least as much "silver" as there ever was, even if the emulsion when coated has less silver to start with.

You can still get Tri-X in popular sheet sizes. It should give you very similar results to the way Tri-X has always worked.

Graphic arts films, being designed for high-contrast work are very thin emulsions, not a lot of silver., however they can be used for full-toned photography with compensating development.

Gene,
Thanks very much for responding. Tri-X appears to be grainier than it used to be. Maybe it's me... but it doesn't appear to give me as much as it used to... I'm scanning on a drum scanner, so tighter grain is much nicer.

I keep getting these results that are not as rich as things used to be - I have even gone back to mixing up D-23. There seem to be larger steps between the tonalities. Some people agree wholeheartedly, others think I am crazy... It's like playing a piano where every other key hits the same string. Leaves look all the same tone....

I guess I'll try the XRay stuff and see what happens. It's certainly cheap enough...

Thx again,

Lenny

[David A. Goldfarb]

I think the grain of Tri-X has improved in its latest incarnation. I'm wondering if it's just the difference between scanning and wet printing that makes it seem otherwise.

[Lenny Eiger]

I think the grain of Tri-X has improved in its latest incarnation. I'm wondering if it's just the difference between scanning and wet printing that makes it seem otherwise.

David,
What time frame are you setting for the inception of this "incarnation"?

There is a difference between scanning and not. Big subject, tho'... been researching it for a while...

Lenny

[David A. Goldfarb]

"New" Tri-X has been around for something like four years, now, hasn't it? It was when they eliminated TXT sheet film, replaced it with TXP sheet and rollfilm, and changed the names from TX 400 to 400TX and from TXP 320 to 320TXP (or is it the other way around?--I still think of them as TX and TXP).

Checking over at the Kodak website, datasheet F-9 for Tri-X is dated 2003, so I suppose that is when the new versions came out.

[fstop]

I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned Bergger films. I've been using their 4x5 and 8x10 almost exclusively souped in wd2d+ with great results. As with their paper, a high silver content and beautiful gradiations. Worth a shot.

[Gene McCluney]

I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned Bergger films. I've been using their 4x5 and 8x10 almost exclusively souped in wd2d+ with great results. As with their paper, a high silver content and beautiful gradiations. Worth a shot.

BERGGER films are a good as the Forte films they are based on. Which is really very good, however with the demise of Forte, Bergger will have to find another source for their products, and the quality of future product offerings from Bergger is unknown. Bergger still has stock of Forte made films.