View Full Version : Need help to decide choosing schneider 58mm or 65 mm

chin-fan so
14-Oct-2000, 13:50
I got Schneider 120mm, 210mm and a Toyo 45AII want to get one of the above, and don't know which one need reccess board. I do landscape most of the time, please point out the pros and cons of these 2 lense or, any comment is greatly appreci ated. Direct email is welcome too.

Ellis Vener
14-Oct-2000, 14:15
Two things to consider with so short of focal length and that camera design is will you have any movements and will the bed of the camera intrude into the picture area (assuming you are shooting 4x5)?

Only the manufacturer ofthe camera, a good honest salesman, or people with experience of that combination of focal length and camera body will be able to answer both questions completely (and obviously you are looking for the latter and that is why you came here.) While I am none ofthe above, I thionk I can offer you some things to consider.

If the bed is in the way, you'll have to go with an indirect rise methodology: you tilt the bed of the tripod downward, tilt the back to vertical and then tilt the front standard back to vertical and use the rise movement on the front to recenter the lens on axis. with the film.

My experience from shopping for 65mm lenses is that both the Rodenstock 65mm /4.5 Grandagon and the Nikon 65mm /4 (or is it /4.5 as well?) SW-Nikkor project bigger image circles than the 65mm /5.6 Super Angulon. The Schneider 58mm /5.6 Super Angulon XL also projects a larger image than the 65mm S-A. this may be an important factor if you have to go with the indirect movement route.

You might want to consider a 75mm lens instead or if your budget allows, the new Schneider 80mm f/5.6 XL Super Symmar lens.

paul owen
14-Oct-2000, 15:48
IMHO wait for the new 80mm XL !!!!!!!!

Jean-Marie Solichon
15-Oct-2000, 05:29
I own the Toyo 45AII and a 65mm (Nikon). In this configuration you need to drop the bed for vertical framing only (=not for horizontal).The 58mm may well necessitate droping the bed for both framing. Not that much difficult but forget movements.

Emil Salek
16-Oct-2000, 18:19
Schneider SA 58/5.6 XL is a nice lens but forget about is for 4x5". I have just tried it once more to be absolutely sure and yes, even in horizontal position the bed of my Wista VX is well in the picture. You can get it out of the way by rising the lens about a 1/2" or even less but then you cannot tilt forward more than 1 or 2 degrees. I use this lens only with my roll film adapter.

I also recommend you a 75 or 80 mm lens (I love my Nikkor 75). Note that 80 is closer to 90, in case you would like to buy a 90 mm lens later.

chin-fan so
17-Oct-2000, 17:04
Hi Jean & Emil,

Sorry about how stupid I am not to understand what u guys explained over and over again.

you both means the Schneider 58mm & 65mm fiited with Toyo 45 A2 have to do a drop bed in framing, otherwise the bed will appear in the frame.

I just don't understand what is mean by the bed will appear in the frame (ground glass). The bed is dehind the ground glass, how come it will cast a image in the ground glass?

Really thanks a lot. Chin-Fan So

Emil Salek
17-Oct-2000, 19:08
The misunderstanding probably comes from what you mean by "bed". Bed is not behind the ground glass. Bed is the part of the camera that carries the front standard. It is also the "lid" of the camera when you close it. As the 58 mm lens is very close to the ground glass (because it is a short focal lens) and it has a very large angle of view, a part of the bed, which is in front of the lens, will be visible on the ground glass. In other words, you will photograph a part of your own camera if you do not shift the lens up, directly or indirectly, as described in another answer. Once more, I do not recommend you to buy this lens for use with a field camera and 4x5" film. You could either use it on a monorail (which has no bed)or with a rollfilm holder for 6x7 or 6x9 cm format on your Toyo field. BTW, focusing with this lens is quite difficult because the the image on the ground glass is rather dark. Silvestri tilting loupe helps but cannot add light. Think about a 75 mm lens. 80 mm Schneider is surely a fine lens, which I personally do not know, but it is closer to 90 than 75. You will probably want to buy a 90 mm lens later if you like to precisely work with the perspective. Perspective is an important thing to consider when you choose a lens, particularly a short one. The perspective given by different short focal lenses varies much faster than with longer lenses. If you use short lenses at the limit of their possibilities, the difference between 90 and 75 mm in termes of perspective is quite noticeable, the difference between 75mm and 58 mm is very important and the difference between 120 mm and 58 mm is so huge that you will surely lack something in between. Beyond the fact that a shorter focal length allows one to get more things into the frame, it is paramount to find which degree of spatial distortion best fits one's subjects and artistic intents. Perhaps this will help you to choose your lens more easily or even more accurately. The fact that the bed of your Toyo is in the way should not be the only criterion. If you really need and/or want an extreme perspective or shoot in restreint spaces that require such a lens, get a monorail and you will be able to use the 58 mm Schneider (probably with a recessed lensboard).

chin-fan so
17-Oct-2000, 22:48
Hi Emil,

Thank you for your explanation, I become fully understand it now. And thank you for further comments too. I think I will not buy 65 or shorter for that tedious drop bed action. A 90mm seems to be too close to 120mm, the schneider 80 must be very expensive, if 75mm need no drop bed, I think I'll get this one. Welcome for further comments!


Glenn Kroeger
18-Oct-2000, 00:19
If cost is an issue, the Rodenstock 75mm f/6.8 Grandagon-N is a moderatly priced lens with excellent performance. The can be found used for under $500.

chin-fan so
18-Oct-2000, 00:59
Just want to make sure 75mm doesn't need drop bed on Toyo 45 Aii. Anyone have experience about that?

If it desn't need drop bed, than propably the Super Angulon 75mm f5.6 may be in a quite suitable price range for me. But if Nikon 75 or Grandagon 75 that has f4.5 make a significant difference in brightness during focusing, may be I'll buy one of them. Probably the Grandagon which has a better price.

But then in that price range (Nikon=UK$729, Grandagon=UK$675), may be it's not a big difference from the Super Symmar 80mm, because a Super Symmar 110mm is only UK$61 more than Nikon 75mm @ RobertWhite.

Can anyone try project the price range of Super Symmar S80mm? Should it be cheaper than 110mm?

Any news about the release date too?

Thank you guys!

Lloyd Chamber
23-Oct-2000, 18:08
I use the 58XL with my Linhof Technikardan 45S, and it works great. It's about equal to a 17mm in 35mm terms.

Anyway, it produced astoundingly sharp results in some pictures I shot at f16. So sharp that my 10X loupe wasn't enough to see where the detail ended. However, coverage is just enough, and for this shot i got some dark corners due to paralleling the back with the subject.