Copal shutter & modern lenses for 4x5 Crown Graphic?

[Martin]

Hi,

Is there any problems with using modern Copal shutters and newer lenses with 4x5 Crown Graphic cameras?

Anyone else out here have experience with this? Is there any upsides or downsides?

Thanks,
Martin

[David Karp]

No problem.

I have only used modern lenses in Copal shutters with my Crown. There may be an issue with big lenses in Copal No. 3 shutters. I don't know if they will fit on the Graphic's boards.

[Glenn Thoreson]

I use everything from 1880s Aplanats to modern lenses in Copal shutters on my Crowns and Speeds. Anything that the bellows extension and the opening in the front standard will accomodate is fair game. No problem at all. Enjoy!

[Dave Parker]

Nope, it will freeze up and won't fire, that is terrible, old cameras like old lenses, there is just a certain mystic!













LOL :D

Only Kidding, you can use anything that will fit and the bellows draw will cover.

Dave

[wclavey]

Nope, it will freeze up and won't fire, that is terrible, old cameras like old lenses, there is just a certain mystic!

And when it freezes up, you can send it to me, since it will be of no more use to you.

[venchka]

And when it freezes up, you can send it to me, since it will be of no more use to you.

Just when I thought that Houston was a Digital Black Hole, someone else with an afinity for Graflex cameras appears. It's nice to know I'm not alone.

Thanks for confirming what I thought was true. I'm not ready yet. I need to get to know the two lenses that came with the camera first. Someday I might like to buy a modern lens in the 210mm to 250mm range for my 1953 Pacemaker.

[Joseph O'Neil]

The Crown Graphic will take some amazingly large lenses, larger than you might think.
Also, I used to use a brand new 135mm APo Sironar N (the smaller one), and it was small enough, I could even fold up th camera with the lens & board still in place.

good luck
joe

[wclavey]

I have what I call my "borg" 4x5... a stripped down, rebuilt Crown Graphic that came from the the guts of 2 junk-box Crowns and an old Anniversary Speed. I put some pictures of it on another thread about Graphics refinishing a few months ago... But on it I use 5 lenses: the original 135mm Optar in a Wollensak shutter that came with it, a 170mm Kodak Anastigmat in a Kodamatic shutter, a B&L Rapid Rectilinear in a Kodak ball-bearing shutter, a 105mm Tominon in a Polaroid MP-4 shutter, and a 210mm Sironar in a Copal 1 shutter. The Crown handles all these perfectly... plenty of bellows. The 210 Sironar has become my "regular" lens - - it has huge coverage for the limited movements of the Crown. The others all have very limited coverage. I have tried a 90mm MF lens mounted on a Crown lens board, but the front standard was too far inside the box of the camera to make it usable.

And Wayne, I am always looking for someone to go shooting LF with in the Houston area and someplace interesting to go... I shoot MF & LF and my wife is a saint about going with me, but it is not her thing. And I occasionally go out with a friend who shoots a digital 35mm, and we just move at different paces, even when I am shooting MF (Bronica s2a or Mamiya TLRs). Look for me (email, PM, whatever) if you are interested in a photo expedition. I am in far west Houston (Green Trails, almost to Katy).

[venchka]

I have what I call my "borg" 4x5... a stripped down, rebuilt Crown Graphic that came from the the guts of 2 junk-box Crowns and an old Anniversary Speed. I put some pictures of it on another thread about Graphics refinishing a few months ago... But on it I use 5 lenses: the original 135mm Optar in a Wollensak shutter that came with it, a 170mm Kodak Anastigmat in a Kodamatic shutter, a B&L Rapid Rectilinear in a Kodak ball-bearing shutter, a 105mm Tominon in a Polaroid MP-4 shutter, and a 210mm Sironar in a Copal 1 shutter. The Crown handles all these perfectly... plenty of bellows. The 210 Sironar has become my "regular" lens - - it has huge coverage for the limited movements of the Crown. The others all have very limited coverage. I have tried a 90mm MF lens mounted on a Crown lens board, but the front standard was too far inside the box of the camera to make it usable.

And Wayne, I am always looking for someone to go shooting LF with in the Houston area and someplace interesting to go... I shoot MF & LF and my wife is a saint about going with me, but it is not her thing. And I occasionally go out with a friend who shoots a digital 35mm, and we just move at different paces, even when I am shooting MF (Bronica s2a or Mamiya TLRs). Look for me (email, PM, whatever) if you are interested in a photo expedition. I am in far west Houston (Green Trails, almost to Katy).

Absolutley will do. I'm more or less north of you at Hwy 6 & West Road. I may start with MF (Pentax 6x7) until I get things sorted out for developing 4x5 myself. Hmmmm...I wonder if the 150mm/2.8 Super Takumar would work on the Pacemaker? Macro maybe, but probably not anywhere close to infinity.

The 210mm Sironar would seem like a nice "regular" lens for a Graphic.

[Dan Fromm]

Just when I thought that Houston was a Digital Black Hole, someone else with an afinity for Graflex cameras appears. It's nice to know I'm not alone.

Thanks for confirming what I thought was true. I'm not ready yet. I need to get to know the two lenses that came with the camera first. Someday I might like to buy a modern lens in the 210mm to 250mm range for my 1953 Pacemaker.Why buy a modern lens when the 203/7.7 Ektar is better than good enough?

[65Galaxie]

Why buy a modern lens when the 203/7.7 Ektar is better than good enough?

I ended up buying a modern (looked like new) Rodenstock Geronar 210 in copal shutter for less than what the 203 Ektar was bringing on ebay, otherwise I would have bought an Ektar 203.

[Dan Fromm]

Not to be completely contrary, old Ford car, but the Geronar is a Cooke Triplet under another name and the Ektar is a dialyte under another name. Both designs are ancient. Even the plasmat, the quintessential design for modern LF lenses that are neither really wide nor really long, is aged.

[Kirk Fry]

A Crown Graphic is not a View Camera or a Field Camera, it is an amazing liberating experience. Just think of it as a over grown point and shoot (almost).

K

[venchka]

Why buy a modern lens when the 203/7.7 Ektar is better than good enough?

Thank you. I will remember that. By design or by dumb luck I have managed to accumulate a variety of good old and good modern lenses for 35mm use. I was thinking of doing the same for 4x5. On the other hand, this may not be correct for 4x5.

[Ole Tjugen]

There is nothing wrong with accumulating "good old and good modern" lenses for 4x5", nor even "pretty old and pretty modern" lenses.

My lens accumulation spans the time from around 1860 to 2002, and includes both good and pretty - and even bad. Even the "bad" lenses can give good results if you know them.

Part of the fun with LF is the compatibility of everything with everything else, unlike 35mm where you are more or less tied to one lens mount per camera.

[Kevin Crisp]

I carry a 3 lens kit for the Crown; a 135mm MC Symar-S, a 90mm Angulon, and a 210 R Claron. The 135 stays on the camera. It take some patience to get the lens and the little "L" lever on the camera body positioned exactly right, but with just a little preload on the shutter firing lever of the copal, you can use the body release as you would with the standard press lens. If you preload the lever too much the shutter won't cock, and there is not much room for error. The advantage of the Kalart rangefinder is that it can be adjusted for the 135 lens and be accurate without having to worry about a cam.

[lloydlim]

Note that it is theoretically possible to mount a Copal 3 shutter on a Crown Graphic lensboard, however most Copal 3 lenses I have seen have a rear diameter that is even larger than the shutter hole. Hence, the process of using such a lens on a crown graphic would be:

1. open body
2. take out the back
3. unscrew the lens back element from the shutter
4. mount and secure the lensboard
5. screw the back element
6. reinsert camera back.

In comparison, it is a 2 step process to change copal 0 and 1 lens :)