Shall I take my 4x5 to San Francisco?

[niubi]

Hi all,

I'mg travelling to San Francisco on vacation for 10 days from Sept. 8 and need some general advice as this will be my first time to this city (and only my second time to the US (I'm from Australia)).

I was planning on shooting some street photography with my Mamiya 7 but just wondered what 4x5 opportunities there might be in and around the city. I may not be hiring a car (driving on the other side of the road is not something I need to learn in 10 days!!) but I hear the city itself is very user friendly in terms of public transport.

In addition, Yosemite valley is not that far (well, not in Aussie distances, anyway!!) ...I hear that coaches can take you there in the morning and will pickup in the evening. Would a day trip be worthwhile? Probably too early for the autumn colours?

Any advice re: photography in and around the city? (Please note I am extremely 'green' re: 4x5 photography. I have had my camera for less than a week!).

Thanks in advance.

[Louie Powell]

There are probably more LF photographers per square mile in the San Francisco area than anywhere else in North America. So you would be among friends.

There are a lot of really fabulous LF subjects in the San Francisco area - Golden Gate Park, the old coastal fortifications at Marin Headlands, Point Lobos State Park, Muir Woods, etc. But many of the best LF subjects are some distance from San Francisco, and getting there by public transportation could be challenging. And Yosemite is a serious hike from San Francisco - you would probably need to dedicate two full days, and also take particular care to arrange for lodging (there are limited choices, especially "in season").

I understand the concern about learning to drive on the wrong side of the road, especially given the frantic traffic in the San Francisco area. But having a care certainly makes it much easier to get to some of the outlying areas.

[Wilbur Wong]

Niubi,

Your Mamiya 7 is a good plan for street photography in "the city" as we bay area locals refer to it. As for Yosemite, I feel you should allow for at least two nights there just to get a feel for it. Two nights gives you really only one solid sunrise to sunset cycle. If you don't have time to scout ahead and plan, I would use the Mamiya in Yosemite. I have been to Yosemite in every season and every condition, yet I can't imagine taking a view camera shot during a rushed motor coach trip.

If your available time is short, you might enjoy a side trip to the Carmel area more than trying to do Yosemite. Point Lobos is Edward Weston's arena, and is as challenging today for photography as it was in Edwards time. When I photograph down in that area, I stay at the "Carmel River Inn" which has reasonably price cottages for rent, many with kitchenettes which cut down the feeding bill. Point Lobos opens at 8:00 am and is just down the road from Carmel. Traffic here will not be as intimidating as in San Francisco.

We welcome your visit with us in the Bay Area.

[Ron Marshall]

Yosemite is about 4 hours from SF. Definately worth going for the view, even if you don't shoot. Lots to shoot in SF as well.

[Brian Ellis]

There's a publication called Photograph America that has an issue devoted to things to photograph on a hiking tour of San Francisco (it isn't just "places to photograph in San Francisco," it guides you on a hike of some miles starting around the Golden Gate bridge and talks about various places to photograph along the way). You can order single issues for about $10 I think. My back issues were lost in a recent move so I can't give you the directions for the hike or the places it mentions but it would be ideal for you if you don't have a car. Google on "Photograph America" and you should find the web site, if not send me a PM and I'll find an address or perhaps someone else here can provide it.

As others have said, there's plenty of places in SF that are suited for LF photography (and many that will be better suited for your Mamiya). So it's certainly worth taking as long as you don't plan for it to be your only camera. Since you say you're a "green" LF photographer, having only had your camera for a week, I think it would be a mistake to make it your only camera on a trip like this but it doesn't sound like that's what you have in mind.

[Scott Davis]

There is SOOOO much in San Francisco the city and its immediate environs worth shooting with ANY camera. I'd second the "don't make 4x5 your only camera" if you are still really new to it. But definitely bring it and keep it with you as much as possible, because you'll want to break it out all the time. Especially when you're walking the street and see something cool on a 2nd story of a building- a sign, a shop window, etc. Especially since San Francisco is full of hills, and buildings are built up the contours of those hills. You'll often want the perspective correction.

[BradS]

First, I think the Mamiya 7 is a traveller's dream camera. If you brought it and nothing else, I'm sure you would have no regrets.

You definitely do not need to hire a car. Driving in the city is a nightmare. The public transit in the city is as good as it gets in this country. Besides, the city is very walkable - just be very, very careful when crossing streets.

Keep an open mind and enjoy yourself.

[John Kasaian]

One fun thing to do with your Mamiya---at least once a year I take an annual predawn hike from old Crissy Field (now monickered as "Presidio Green" but it will always be Crissy Field" to me,) to Justin Herman Plaza in front of the Ferry Building on the Embarcadero. I start out while well before sunrise. Catch the moon and lights reflecting on the bay at Ft. Mason, grab a coffee at the Safeway to warm you against thew chill of the bay. Watch the sky turn a steel gray over Sts Peter and Paul and Coit Tower as the shapes of the buildings emerge from the darkness on Columbus Avenue and Upper Grant St. See the grocers and shopkeepers in Chinatown greet the trucks and exotic produce is unloaded and arrainged for sale. Eventually you'll hit Market Street--a broad avenue void of traffic (really wierd twilight zone) at that hour and if its Saturday the farmer's market at the Ferry Buildong will just be starting to stir. Get a cup of coffee and maybe a breakfast burrito as a reward and watch as the traffic on the Bay Bridge begins to "sizzle"
Cheap thrills in an expensive city---priceless images whether you capture them on film or in your memory.
Have a great trip!

[Brian Vuillemenot]

As indicated above, there's loads of stuff to keep a photographer busy in the San Francisco Bay area. I've shot my 4X5 plenty of times in the city, and found it very friendly to LF photography. However, since you've indicated that you just got your LF camera, I would recomend sticking with the Mamiya. It takes a number of practice sessions to start to feel comfortable using LF, and up to several years (or more) to master it, so you it would be very frustrating to be trying to learn LF for the first time on your vacation- you'd miss a lot of shots. The Mamiya may also be better for photographing street scenes with peeple and moving objects.

I would not recommend doing a day trip to Yosemite- you'd be in the car a lot more than the park. I remember hearing about a day trip there offered to participants at a biomedical convention held in the SF convention center. It left at 7 am for Yosemite, arriving back in the city at 8 pm. Those in attendance got to drive through the valley, get out for a few minutes, and have lunch before heading back. Yosemite is not a place you can see in a day, let alone an hour or two! In addition, it will still be pretty crowded there with the summer crowds during September. You're much better of going for at least a few days in the fall, winter, or spring.

As far as specific things to shoot in SF, there's all kinds of architecture, bridges, parks, and city scenes. The Carmel/Point Lobos/Big Sur area is definately recommended, although if you can't make it that far, there's great coastal scenery in the Marin Headlands and Point Reyes seashore just north of the city and the San Mateo county coast just south of the city (including several lighthouses). If you want to see redwoods, try Muir Woods north of the city or especially Big Basin south of the city. Good luck!

[ageorge]

Having lived in and photographed all around SF for over 11 years now, I would recommend renting (hiring) a car, if you would rather spend your time taking pictures versus waiting/riding a bus, train, ferry, etc. You can get around a lot faster/efficiently with a car especially when most interesting locations are not serviced by a bus stop. The only situation that I would not recommend a car is if your only interest is street photography and with a 4x5 this is probably not the case. I recently spent 3 weeks in Australia/New Zealand for the first time and rented a car the whole time. Learning to drive on the "wrong" side is not a big hurdle. Although New Zealand was a little tricky, driving along for sometime without see anyone and then suddenly having to remember which side to be on:). You should not have this problem around here, it's rotten with people.

I would not want to be in Yosemite with out a car. Forget the valley floor unless you want to be a real tourist and see the household names. Drive Tioga Pass and camp in Tuolumne Meadows or somewhere near Mono Lake and drive back the next day. No bus in going to pull over and let you setup when you most desperately want to. The week days will be much less crowded that the weekends. A lot of people live in California and they all seem to want to be in Yosemite on the weekends.

If you have any specific interests, I would be happy to make some recommendations.

[Turner Reich]

Yes take the 5x4, if you don't you will be very disappointed with yourself. If you don't go to Yosemite you will miss one of the most impressive and fantastic places on the the Earth. It's really that great. There is a lot of transporation in SF, where do you plan to stay? If it's close to the water then you will have a lot to photograph and you can walk to China town or take a cable car. If you are going to go to Alcatraz then get the tickets soon, you can take your cameras there too for large format photography. It's a walking tour inside with headphones but your are free to go anywhere and stay as long as you want and photograph. Many great photographs are possible there. I was just down there a couple of months ago and had a great time. It was the 2nd time this year. Good luck and have fun.

[niubi]

Wow! If you people are an indication of the hospitality I'm going to experience in SF, then I'm in for a great holiday!

Thanks heaps for your advice. Not sure where I'm staying as this is a spare of the moment decision but a few decent (well.. semi-decent!) hotels still have vacancies so I will finalise this tonight.

I can't be so close to Yosemite and not go there! My brother visited last year and he still raves about it...and he is not even interested in photography!! So I will try to organise 3 days accommodation for the latter part of my trip..hopefully it will be slightly less busy then. If anyone is going up there at that time and sees some lunatic driving on the other side of the road, just wave or honk your horn...it will surely be me!

Feel free to add any other comments.

But thanks again!

[Capocheny]

Easiest solution to all your questions?

Tee up with one of the locals and go shooting together... :>0

Makes good sense to me! :)

Cheers

[John Kasaian]

For cheap(er) accomodations in Yosemite Valley check out the tent cabins at Curry Village and the Housekeeping Camp (aka Camp 16) A sleeping bag and flashlight is all you'll really need to camp here unless you want to cook, and you can rent campstoves for that.The Housekeping Camp is on the Merced River and allows campfires. The tent cabins at Curry are closer to the pizzaria and cappuccino bar (take your pick!) A low stress hike might be to take the tram to Glacier Point and hike down. EZ and scenic! Do try to get up to Tioga Pass and Tuolemne Meadows--there are similar tent cabin accomodations available waaaay up there. After the Labor Day weekend the Valley gets downright tolerable!

Reasonable rooms in S.F. can be a challenge. Check The Columbus Motor Lodge (nice location with lots of night life) The Radisson at Fisherman's Wharf (tourist hell but graet for catching public transportation. Sometimes they run special deals on pricing) and the Ramada on Market Street (crappy area but a nice hotel and good for catching public transportation--usually lower rates for rooms than in similar hotels) If you're going to rent a car for your stay look for places further down the penninsula and drive into town (but not too far---dealing with bay area rush hour traffic is no vacation!---especially if you're used to driving on the other side of the road.) Also there are nieghborhoods that are far from safe, so get a local's opinion if possible. The VCB sure won't tell you!
Have a great trip!

[davidb]

Definitely take the camera. If you don't you'll surely want it.

[Dean Cookson]

Oh, and make some noise when you get here. Maybe you could scare a few of us out of hiding and into a brewpub...

[Bill_1856]

"Shall I take my 4x5 to San Francisco?"
NO. Not if you're only going to be there for 10 days.
Your Mamiya 7 is probably the best substitute you could possibly make.
Whether you go to Yosemite or Carmel/Point Lobos, you should allow two days(one night), including travel. Both are absoutely fabulous places, but don't try to do both of them. Only do Yosemite if you think that you're never going to have another chance.
Public transportation is probably as good as you're going to get anywhere, but watch your stuff carefully -- I've had a Nikon lifted out of my backpack on a crowded streetcar.
I thought that OZ had one special day a few years ago, when no one drove anywhere, so everyone could switch to driving on the right (correct) side of the road. No?

[niubi]

I thought that OZ had one special day a few years ago, when no one drove anywhere, so everyone could switch to driving on the right (correct) side of the road. No?

LOL! I am trying to imagine this happening in Sydney...it would be as crazy as everyone in SF driving on the other side for a day..

Sydney is a very hectic city these days......BTW, for anyone who has made plans to be here in the next couple of weeks, try to leave your 4x5 at home...with George Bush coming for the APEC meeting, let's just say I could get arrested for carrying my Mamiya, let alone a 4x5...the security is absolutely ludicrous!!!!!! They've closed off the whole damn city!...
...probably good timing for me to escape to SF.

[Vaughn]

"I thought that OZ had one special day a few years ago, when no one drove anywhere, so everyone could switch to driving on the right (correct) side of the road. No?


No, that was New Zealand -- they were going to have the first week of the new year as a test and have all the cars drive on the righ hand side of the road. If it worked out, then they would add the lorries and buses to the test for the second week.

My suggestion is to bring the 4x5 -- and get a roll back (perhaps 6x8 or 6x9 since you already have 6x7) for the 4x5 so that you can shoot some 120 film -- great way to practise movements and perspective adjustments while using film you are already use to...and you can always slip in a 4x5 film holder if the scene calls for it.

It might increase you productivity and improve your learning of the view camera -- you can try all sorts of shots you might not otherwise take, having a limited amount of 4x5 film/holders.

Have fun!

Vaughn

[KenM]

I would also try to get over to the Marin headlands - there are all sorts of military installations that are well worth exploring. It can get busy on the weekend, tho, with cyclists and people out hiking.

There are some nice views of SF and the GG Bridge as well.

[jetcode]

Hi all,

I'mg travelling to San Francisco on vacation for 10 days from Sept. 8 and need some general advice as this will be my first time to this city (and only my second time to the US (I'm from Australia)).

I was planning on shooting some street photography with my Mamiya 7 but just wondered what 4x5 opportunities there might be in and around the city. I may not be hiring a car (driving on the other side of the road is not something I need to learn in 10 days!!) but I hear the city itself is very user friendly in terms of public transport.

In addition, Yosemite valley is not that far (well, not in Aussie distances, anyway!!) ...I hear that coaches can take you there in the morning and will pickup in the evening. Would a day trip be worthwhile? Probably too early for the autumn colours?

Any advice re: photography in and around the city? (Please note I am extremely 'green' re: 4x5 photography. I have had my camera for less than a week!).

Thanks in advance.

Pick anywhere S.F. and you will find something to photograph. The headlands, GG Park, the coast are all great locations. Yosemite is a 4-5 hour drive by car and the best light is early and late (like usual). Better spent as an over-nighter. Stay in Camp Curry for under $75. If I were coming to this area for 10 days I would consider a drive up 101 to say Garberville then back over the Mendocino coast to S.F. Lots of great things to experience and you will have access to redwoods and coast. The Napa and Sonoma wine regions are a nice day trip from S.F. Heading south there's nothing quite like Santa Cruz, Monterey, and Big Sur. I could easily spend 10 days shooting in S.F. and as I live 45 minutes to the G.G. in West Marin I plan on fulfilling that plan.

If you are in the city "Calumet" for photo supplies is in the west side of Portrero Hill, "New Lab" for E6 and "Gamma", B/W. You can have your film processed while you are there which is handy.

[jetcode]

Wow! If you people are an indication of the hospitality I'm going to experience in SF, then I'm in for a great holiday!


Send an email when you get here and I will take you around S.F. I enjoy going to the city to shoot and I can drive on both sides of the road and sometimes I have to.



So I will try to organise 3 days accommodation for the latter part of my trip..hopefully it will be slightly less busy then.


Yosemite is never less busy, it's just not Tokyo in the winter.

[jetcode]

Definitely take the camera. If you don't you'll surely want it.

You can rent it all at Calumet in Portrero Hill.

[jetcode]

Niubi,
If your available time is short, you might enjoy a side trip to the Carmel area more than trying to do Yosemite. Point Lobos is Edward Weston's arena, and is as challenging today for photography as it was in Edwards time. When I photograph down in that area, I stay at the "Carmel River Inn" which has reasonably price cottages for rent, many with kitchenettes which cut down the feeding bill. Point Lobos opens at 8:00 am and is just down the road from Carmel. Traffic here will not be as intimidating as in San Francisco.

We welcome your visit with us in the Bay Area.

I believe Clint Eastwood owns the Carmel River Inn. I didn't know they had cottages.

[jetcode]

Driving in the city is a nightmare.

It's not that bad, I do it with my Tuna Boat at least once a week. Now parking sucks for sure. I've seen a day's wages lost on a weeks worth of garage expenses.

[drew.saunders]

First thing to note: Wearing flowers in your hair is now considered optional*

In your shoes, I'd bring the Mamiya 7 and lots and lots of film (or buy it here). Film is cheaper than airfare! On a trip like that, I'd choose a camera with which you're very comfortable, and not have to worry about learning your relatively new 4x5. You can always rent a 4x5 at Calumet if you decide that you're missing the LF experience, but you should probably email or call first to see what they have in stock. If you don't have a 43 for your Mamiya 7, you might want to rent one from Calumet as well. http://webres.calumetphoto.com/webres/pdfs/SanFran.pdf

Some of SF's streets are so steep that there are steps in the sidewalks. If you're using your camera hand held, it's very hard for your brain not to line up the street with the bottom of the frame, making all the buildings lean. I was fairly bad at that for some of my shots of one of the bike races in SF a few years ago: http://www.stanford.edu/~dru/sf_gp/sfgp.html. Those particular nasty hills are Fillmore and Taylor streets.

San Francisco is a great city to see on foot, so the Mamiya is a perfect camera to carry with you.

Within the city, you can do just fine with public transit, then rent the car for your trip out, rather than renting the car at the airport. San Francisco International isn't actually in San Francisco, so don't bother going back to rent your car, most of the major companies have offices in the city too. You can probably return the car to the airport even if you don't rent it there, depending on your company.

If you want to head south to Carmel, Point Lobos etc. on your trip out, stop by the Monterey Aquarium. They just got another great white shark on exhibit, which is a rare sight. http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/whiteshark/

*Famous (and now 40-year-old!) hippie song "If you're going to San Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair" that you'll probably hear at least once on the radio during your trip. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_(Be_Sure_to_Wear_Flowers_in_Your_Hair)

[Louie Powell]

If your available time is short, you might enjoy a side trip to the Carmel area more than trying to do Yosemite. Point Lobos is Edward Weston's arena, and is as challenging today for photography as it was in Edwards time. When I photograph down in that area, I stay at the "Carmel River Inn" which has reasonably price cottages for rent, many with kitchenettes which cut down the feeding bill. Point Lobos opens at 8:00 am and is just down the road from Carmel.

Based on the rates quoted on their web site, I would not describe the Carmel River Inn cottages as "reasonable".

Back in February, we stayed at the Holiday Inn Express in Marina (just east of Monterrey) that was less than $100 per night.

Also, we found that we had to wait until 9am for them to open the gate at Point Lobos State Park. Worth the wait!

[Lazybones]

Don't take your 4x5, take me with you. :D :D :D :D

[John Kasaian]

If you plan to go to Pt Lobos, check to see that there aren't any temporary closures for elephant seal mate-ing rituals or anything.

Another very scenic area close to SF is the Muir Redwoods. If crumbling industrial stuff floats your boat, check out Mare Island Naval Shipyard.

[Wilbur Wong]

Regarding the Carmel River Inn, my wife and I have stayed here many times over the years. (Clint Eastwood doesn't own it, in fact it was purchased by a small group a couple of years ago, much to my chagrin.)

It is still however small and quaint, not to be compared with a room on a hallway. They do have a two story "hotel" portion at the front of the property. However we always enjoy using one of the cottages which are all stand alone and we can park right outside the door. Reasonably priced for me may not mean the same for all people. I think the current smallest cottages are under $120 per night. Last Christmas, I rented two cottages for an extended family holiday which included 4 generations. The rates totaled $454 per night, this total included 2 cottages which collectively had 4 bedrooms, a full kitchen, and a 15 x 24' living room with fireplace where we could all congregate. If you compare Carmel rates, this is more than a bargain.

A major compensation for having a kitchen or kitchenette is being able to avoid expensive (or even "inexpensive") meals out.

[BradS]

It's not that bad, I do it with my Tuna Boat at least once a week. Now parking sucks for sure. I've seen a day's wages lost on a weeks worth of garage expenses.

I confess...I haven't driven to or in the city for years. I take my family into the city about once a month. We park at the Dublin/Pleasanton station and take the Bart to the financial district and walk or use the Muni to get about. We've walked the Embarcaderro up to the tourist filled Fisherman's warf. We've been to the Moma, civic center, taken in a few operas, even took the kids to the infamous tenderloin.

I just love being out on the street among the people...

We even take Bart when we fly out of SFO now. Wonderful.

[Dean Cookson]

I commute into town from Marin everyday by motorcycle, traffic here really isn't bad at all. Just stay away from the approaches to the Bay Bridge during rush hour and it's all good.

I also second the recommendation of renting equipment at Calumet on Portrero. We went on a long weekend vacation to San Diego last week and I rented a Nikkor 70-200/2.8 VR for the trip. Picked it up Wed. night, dropped it off Monday night. Total bill: $30. Hard to beat that...

[Wilbur Wong]

We even take Bart . . . . .

I live just across the bay from SF. Anything, anywhere near downtown, we Bart* to. The only reason I will drive in is if we are taking grandma with us.

*verb.

[Brian Vuillemenot]

You can also take CalTrain up and down the peninsula, from SF to San Jose on weekends and as far south as Gilroy on weekdays. With BART, you can reach a lot of territory in the east Bay, and then there's the Muni buses and light rail which will take you just about anywhere in the city itself. As mentioned above, SF is a very scary and dangerous place to drive (45 degree angle hills, very confusing intersections, agressive drivers, one way streets, nightmare traffic jams, etc.), so I recommend that you look into the public transport for getting around the Bay Area. You may want to rent a car, however, to go north (Marin, Sonoma, Napa, Mendocino counties), south (Carmal, Monterey, Big Sur) or east (Yosemite, Sequoia/King's Canyon, eastern Sierra). Have a fun trip!

[jetcode]

As mentioned above, SF is a very scary and dangerous place to drive (45 degree angle hills, very confusing intersections, agressive drivers, one way streets, nightmare traffic jams, etc.)

I do all of that in a westfalia gutless wonder with a clutch - never had a problem - ever

[Louie Powell]

I've driven in San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, Atlanta - yeah, it's an adventure but it's not all that bad.

But New York is another matter. Take the subway there!

[Scott Davis]

I've driven up Sacramento Street (one of the steepest, hilliest streets in SF) and gotten stuck at traffic lights at the cross streets, in a manual transmission car. After that, I don't think there's much in the way of driving challenges I'd be afraid of. Just avoid entering or exiting the city via freeway during rush hour and you're fine.

[jetcode]

I've driven up Sacramento Street (one of the steepest, hilliest streets in SF) and gotten stuck at traffic lights at the cross streets, in a manual transmission car. After that, I don't think there's much in the way of driving challenges I'd be afraid of. Just avoid entering or exiting the city via freeway during rush hour and you're fine.

My dad had a Mazda Miser and the same thing happened to him, he had to back down because the car didn't have enough power to get up the hill. "Rush" hour should be called "Crawl" hour. We call 101 the moving parking lot. The CHP call my Westfalia the moving guard rail.

[Turner Reich]

Are you there yet?, are you there yet?
What did you bring?

Sept. 8, 2007

[roteague]

may not be hiring a car (driving on the other side of the road is not something I need to learn in 10 days!!) but I hear the city itself is very user friendly in terms of public transport.

Don't worry about it - I drive in your country all the time, sometimes for quite long distances. However, I do avoid Melbourne (those hook turns). You might consider using public transportation while in the city, then hiring a car at the airport for your trip to Yosemite. There really is no other way to do Yosemite than to drive yourself (not shooting 4x5). That will give you some time to get used to the traffic pattern in the city before trying to drive somewhere yourself.

BTW, I'll be in Sydney in two weeks; once again I'll drive from there to Victoria - I love the drive and the countryside.