Center Filter & Extra Wide Filter Question

[TonyJones]

I'm using a Heliopan 3x center filter on a 90mm/f4.5 Nikkor for 5x7. Have any of you used a B&W extra wide filter with this combo? Was there any vignetting? I emailed B&H Photo and they said, "Its NOT recommended to add any filter over the Heliopan 82mm Center Filter." What do you folks think? Thanks in advance for your expertise.

Tony Jones

[eric black]

I have used a warming filter on the back element of my 58mm Schneider lens and have acheived some nice shots with it- you could try that strategy. Tape works if you dont have back threads, I have used a 58-77mm step up ring to trap the filter against the back of that particular lens. SK Grimes makes custom solutions for doing that as well

[roteague]

I'm using a Heliopan 3x center filter on a 90mm/f4.5 Nikkor for 5x7. Have any of you used a B&W extra wide filter with this combo? Was there any vignetting? I emailed B&H Photo and they said, "Its NOT recommended to add any filter over the Heliopan 82mm Center Filter." What do you folks think? Thanks in advance for your expertise.

Tony Jones


I've used a filter in this type of combination, except with the Schneider IIIb center filter and an 82mm polarizer, on an 80mm XL lens. I didn't have any problems with it. But, I don't use it enough to have tried every different situation.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Usually these filters are designed with a larger front thread than the rear thread, precisely so you can use another filter with them. Whether that will cause vignetting depends on the front filter, the lens, the format, and the movements you are using. With a 90mm on 5x7" and a center filter, it's going to be a close call--best just to test it.

You shouldn't use a filter between the lens and the center filter, though, or you may get vignetting from the stacked filters and banding, because the center filter isn't the right distance from the lens.

I've sometimes used 4" gel or polyester filters over the center filter.

[JPlomley]

Rob, is the front filter thread of the Schneider IIIb not 86mm? I sure hope so because I just ordered this CF and a Heliopan Slim Mount SH-PMC polarizer to go on the front.

[roteague]

Rob, is the front filter thread of the Schneider IIIb not 86mm? I sure hope so because I just ordered this CF and a Heliopan Slim Mount SH-PMC polarizer to go on the front.


Yes, I believe it is. I just mistyped 82.

[Ron Marshall]

I have a Lee adaptor ring which screws into the front of the CF, and a couple of resin filters; that combo works fine.

[JPlomley]

Ron, interesting. I was thinking of getting the Lee FK100 and 100-90 donut so I could just slip the holder right onto the CF so I can get the ND's as close as possible. This may be a bit extreme on a 75mm, but I think it will be crucial for my 55mm APO Grandagon.

Eric, great idea on the rear filter. I think I would have to ship my 55mm off to S.K. Grimes. Since the polarizer is not a warm tone, I was thinking of putting an 81B on the rear cell. AFAICT there is no rear thread on this optic. Sounds like Schneider got it right on the 58 XL.

[TonyJones]

I'm planning on using the filter for protection from sea spray and such, in addition to filtration, so placing it over the rear element isn't an option and a filter holder would have an opening at the side of the filter. Using a filter on the rear element is an excellent idea for adding additional filtration though. I'll have to take a look at what Mr. Grimes has available. The Center Filter I'm using has an 82mm thread stepped up to 105mm outer and the B&W Extra Wide Filter I'm planning on buying has a 105mm thread stepped up to 122mm outer. It looks like I'll be taking the plunge ($220 worth) to find out for sure. I'll post when I know how well it works. Thanks for the feedback!

[JPlomley]

Not sure if this feedback is useful or not, but I get vignetting when I add a slim mount Heliopan Polarizer to a CF mounted on my 55mm APO Grandagon. I am quite surprised by this actually, as the filter is only 3mm thick. So I have no idea how to get this puppy polarized? I might sell the 55 and get a 47XL...the larger image circle might resolve the problem.

[TonyJones]

JPlomley, Thanks for posting that. I'm surprised to hear that a slim mount would vignette, does it do it at all apertures? Before you sell the 55 you might want to try a B&W Extra wide filter, which is made more like a center filter. The extra wides are basically a step up ring with a larger filter all in one unit. The center filter on your 55 is most likely a 67mm to 86mm, right? An extra wide filter for that would be 86mm to 105mm front threads. You could add a cheap 86 to 105 step up and see if that vignettes, before buying anything expensive. Maybe wrap some electrical tape (cut to the correct height) around the inside of the 105mm part, or something else, to simulate the added height and thickness of a filter mount and do some tests. You might find that a regular filter will work on the step-up ring. But, if a filter 3mm thick is vignetting, a step-up ring might add too much height and thickness where it attaches to the C.F. threads too. Hope you find a solution to that vignetting.

I just ordered a B&W extra wide filter (6-8 weeks special order) for my 90mm with C.F. I hope it works for 5x7, if it doesn't I'll at least have plenty of room to move when I use it for 4x5. I'll definitely post when I have a chance to test it.

Here's a link to an extra wide polarizer so you can see one.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/95069-REG/B_W_65075254_86_mm_Kaeseman_Linear.html

I'm curious about you using a polarizer on such a wide lens, what kind of subject matter are you using it for? I've been thinking about getting one for my 90 & 65mm, but have read that they are of limited use with wides.

How do you like the IIIB C.F. on the 55? The IIIB corrects 1.5 stops, but according to the Linos (Rodenstock) website the recommended filter for the 55 corrects 2.5 stops. I just bought a IIIB for my Nikkor 65. From what I understand the IIIB works on the 47xl too, as well as the 80xl, 90/f8, and 110xl. It seems like it's the C.F. to own, since it is compatible with so many lenses.

Tony

[JPlomley]

Tony, you have discovered the joys of a digital era. Most filters now at B&H are special order, basic things like 81EF's and 81B's that used to be common stock in all sizes are now an outrageous wait. I hear you on the SUR from 86 to 105, but I thought if a polarizer at 3mm thick vignettes, then I need a real thin SUR. I will look into a Heliopan and see what I can find. I have a 105 warm tone polarizer (KR 1.5 from B+W) which would do the trick. The reason I sort of avoided this is that the 55mm is already in a 7mm recessed lensboard on an Arca with a 110mm front standard. Putting a 105mm filter on the 55mm will block my ability to set aperture/shutter speed.

I will only use the polarizer on the ultra wide to eliminate surface glare off rocks etc when I hike the canyons in Zion this fall.

The IIIb CF corrects very efficiently the light fall off on the 55 Grandagon. Not perfect, but more than acceptable given the cost differential between the Rodenstock recommended filter ($600 at B&H) and the IIIb (used in LN condition for $200, new about $360). I found opening up 1.3 stops as opposed to 1.5 stops was optimal on the Grandagon. The IIIb is not recommended for the 47XL (I believe it is the IIIc you want), but is for the 58mm and the other lenses you mention. Having said that, I have read from owners of the 47XL that the IIIb does a more than adequate job of evening out illumination.

Thanks for the tips. Looking forward to your results.

Jeff