Outstanding J&C TMY Business

[Michael Kadillak]

I am terribly saddened by the recent sequence of events but it appears that promises made to make good on former J&C refunds for old TMY orders have gone unanswered and it is time to find the resolution in the courtroom.

Unfortunately, I have no idea who all of the players are and what they are owed. My affiliation with J&C was solely as a facilitator who was tired of complaints about sheet film going away and I have never had any business affiliation with John Minekais / J&C. All I want to do at this juncture is to put this group of claimants together and turn it over to a legal professional that can resolve this issue and get you your money back. Someone has to get this started so it may as well be me.

In the interest of moving this forward I would request that everyone that is on the short end of this deal please PM me with your particulars (full name and address) along with the amount of refund that you are due. Please keep all paperwork associated with these transactions as they will be necessary later on to prove your case.

If you know of a photographer that is a practicing lawyer or a private investigator that could assist the group in this endevor I am all ears.

Best,

[Jon Wilson]

I believe J&C Photo was a corporation registered with the Kansas Secretary of State's Corporation Section. You can probably go on line to check the Kansas State Website for the information. I would veture to bet that it was in fact either a corporation incorporated in Kansas or at least registered to do business there. If so, then you can get the name and address of the last registered agent. If it was a corporation, unless you are willing to take a legal action to seek to "pierce the corporate veil"...extremely expensive litigation, then it is doubtful you will be able to recover anything. Furthermore, it more likely than not is no longer "authorized to do business" in Kansas and the its authority has been revoked for failure to comply with annual filing requirements. As a practical matter, you probably will not get far. BTW, you might file a complaint the Kansas Attorney General's Office, Consumer Protection Section, or at least contact that office an discuss your options with one of its investigators. But, sadly to say, I doubt it will produce much in tangible, i.e., $$$$, results. Best wishes, Jon

[Ed Richards]

I will second what Jon said - if the company formally went bankrupt, you can file on the creditors list, but that seldom results in much or any payment. If they just went broke and out of business, you can spend some serious money getting a default judgment, which is worthless because there are no assets. Unless you have some evidence that the folks who ran the business got rich by stealing the money, they probalby do not have the money either - they probably went broke too.

If you still want to pursue this, figure out how much is owing as best you can, and how much people are willing to invest to try to collect it. I doubt a lawyer is going to do this as a contingent project, so it can quickly become a "good money after bad" proposition.

[Michael Graves]

To throw in a little experience, here is what a lawyer told me about a virtually identical situation. "I'll be happy to take your case, and I guarantee you'll win. Hands down. The unfortunate fact is, you'll never collect a dime from this company and you're still going to have to pay me my fee. Do you still want to pursue this?" Bet you can't guess what MY decision was.

[jnantz]

To throw in a little experience, here is what a lawyer told me about a virtually identical situation. "I'll be happy to take your case, and I guarantee you'll win. Hands down. The unfortunate fact is, you'll never collect a dime from this company and you're still going to have to pay me my fee. Do you still want to pursue this?" Bet you can't guess what MY decision was.

from my limited experience i agree with what michael g. said.
you will not get paid, but will owe lots of money in the end.

maybe you could hire a mediator (like the bbb) ?

since john m. has started business ( or might start business again )
he probably doesn't want to anger his core group of ulf film users.

(it does not sound like a win-win situation if he does that ... )

[John Bowen]

This is truly bad news. My personal dealings with J&C photo were always positive. I purchased a tremendous amount of 7x17 both during the initial pre-order and during the "moving" sale. I hope someone will step forward to coordinate between the ULF community and Kodak so we can order more film in the future.

If there is a silver (pun intended) lining to this saga it is that those who did not receive film can look to their rich uncle to help offset the loss. That's right folks, you are entitled to a "non-business" bad debt deduction if you are not a professional photographer. Just take a short term capital loss on schedule D of your 1040. List it as a non-business bad debt.

[Michael Kadillak]

I hope someone will step forward to coordinate between the ULF community and Kodak so we can order more film in the future.

I am already making appropriate transitional decisions as we speak. The TMY deal will be coming to fruition very soon.

Hang in there. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Cheers!

[davidb]

The recommendation to take the loss is, well, wrong.

J&C needs to be held accountable and if John and the Mrs. can't come up with the money then there is a serious problem.

Also, I believe this whole mess must be kept public as somewhere it was written that John was trying to start another business.

[Michael Kadillak]

The recommendation to take the loss is, well, wrong.

J&C needs to be held accountable and if John and the Mrs. can't come up with the money then there is a serious problem.

Also, I believe this whole mess must be kept public as somewhere it was written that John was trying to start another business.


I completely agree David. There is no room in any business for piss poor customer service. When I heard about these events many many months after I assumed that all was taken care of I was floored. A trusting bunch we surely are that is until a few folks get screwed. I am confident that this will not just fade away and that is the reason that we all need to remain vigilant in managing the monetary component of our chosen art form.

[John Bartley]

Just a couple of thoughts based on reading at various other forums .... Did any money not refunded travel by USPS? (cheques) Did that money cross state lines? If this happened is there a chance that the Feds would consider this mail fraud and have a look at it themselves? And ... might that convince whoever owes to loosen up the purse strings?

This all assumes that an entirely legitimate bankruptcy has not taken place ...

as I said ... just some thoughts

cheers

[Ed Richards]

> J&C needs to be held accountable and if John and the Mrs. can't come up with the money then there is a serious problem.

That is not really the rule in the US legal system. We have corporations precisely so individuals can conduct business without being personally liable for the corporation's debts.

Do not discount that these folks may have had some bad business luck at the end and not been able to make good. I am under the impression that they did good work for the ULF community for years, and that should count for something.

After all, from the perspective of a 4x5 shooter, you guys are crazy and are lucky to get any film at all.:-)

[davidb]

J&C was a small company. We are a small and shrinking community.

All I am saying is that this "situation" should not be kept secret or just with those
that are involved.

It should be out in the community so that if another J&C appears, we can make an informed decision about doing business with them.

[Ted Stoddard]

I totally agree of all discussions over the J&C Incident(s) with his customers and etc... I for one ordered from them and I did receive the items way before all this happened... I know many of you dont know me very well but I am discussing with companies on becoming a dealer for all film sizes and keeping it in stock year round for people who want to purchase these films... This is not an advertisement to sell products just an informal letting everyone know, we will do our best to satisfy everyone of our customers... Feel free to contact me if anyone wants more info...

[resummerfield]

....It should be out in the community so that if another J&C appears, we can make an informed decision about doing business with them.I agree with David. Regardless of the corporate shell John Minekais operated under, or intends to operate under in the future, I will never deal with him unless he satisfies all his previous obligations to the large format community.

[Dave Wooten]

Are the outstanding undelivered orders all from the Kodak Ulf special order program? Personally I had good dealings with John and I received quite a bit of film from J and C, but I was not a participant in the Kodak ULF special order program.

[Michael Kadillak]

Are the outstanding undelivered orders all from the Kodak Ulf special order program? Personally I had good dealings with John and I received quite a bit of film from J and C, but I was not a participant in the Kodak ULF special order program.

That is a very good question Dave. I had assumed that the problem was all associated with unfinished TMY business, but I simply do not know for sure.

[davidb]

Does it really matter? John has not returned calls or emails for months to the people who deserve some answers.

[Oren Grad]

That is a very good question Dave. I had assumed that the problem was all associated with unfinished TMY business, but I simply do not know for sure.

In addition to a small order of quarter-plate TMY that never got cut, I'm in the hole for a couple of boxes of 7x11 HP5 Plus, that didn't get cut due to insufficient orders for that format during the 2006 Ilford run.

[Jay Wolfe]

I'm not part of this, but wonder if anyone that paid via credit card has any recourse through their credit card company. Just a thought.

[clay harmon]

Most credit cards don't allow you to contest a charge after ninety days have elapsed. I found this out when dealing with a certain large format camera maker a few years ago.