View Full Version : Dense edges w tray dev of 8x10s.

G Benaim
20-Aug-2007, 01:57
Hi all,

Well, I did my first tray processing of 8x10 yesterday. I used 11x14 trays, and followed he method described by Michael and Paula. Temp was a little high, started at 75 and went up from there. No scratches, which I was really nervous about, but the edges on a couple are extra dense. I don't know whether it's from the development or bellows flare, maybe someone knows how to tell the difference. I don't have a scanner, otherwise I'd post examples. The bottom and left edges on a couple of images are denser, and they were longish exposures in full sun, though I did shade the lens throughout w the darkslide. I'll see how it goes next time. If it is from the processing, is it just a metter of keeping the negs in the center of the tray all the time, so as to avoid increased agitation next to the walls of the tray (I turned 180 degrees a couple of times)? What else can cause this? Thanks,


20-Aug-2007, 05:48
With the shuffle method, I've never had edges overdeveloped. I've had that problem with other methods of developing, but never with shuffling. Maybe others have had different experiences, but I would tend to think your dark edges were caused by exposure in some manner.

steve simmons
20-Aug-2007, 06:02
I also have never had denser edges with tray development.

steve simmons

Brook Martin
20-Aug-2007, 06:56
i think bellows flare would show up as sort of foggy extra density. I have had dense edges from tray processing that I know was not bellows flare( 5x7 reduction back on an 8x10 with lens that didnt cover 8x10) This is one reason I switched to tanks and hangers.

David Schaller
20-Aug-2007, 07:00
I do tray developing of 8x10 negs, two at a time, in 8x10 trays, and have had no extra edge density. I do Pyrocat HD @ 70 degrees, agititate for the first minutes, then every 30 seconds. I found 11x14 too big and sloshy.

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
20-Aug-2007, 08:19
Increased density due to under (or over) agitation during development is usually evenly spread over all the edges, so I think others are correct in the it probably isn't your development but either a leak or flare.

G Benaim
20-Aug-2007, 10:13
Thanks all for your answers. Am I right in assuming that I can rule out light leaks if the edges of the film are perfectly clear? Or is there a way for like to get in through the light trap and not leave a trace on the edge?

G Benaim
20-Aug-2007, 10:14
Also, how would temperature affect faulty agitation technique? I'm starting at 75 deg, and it drifts up from there.

20-Aug-2007, 13:53
Sounds like bellows flare? Or, perhaps due to nature of long exposure...I have not had the problem you are describing associated with development.

20-Aug-2007, 13:58
Don't worry about negs in center of tray either. You want to group them in a corner to align them so you can shuffle without scratches. I use a constant shuffling method and do up to 8 at a time.

G Benaim
20-Aug-2007, 15:03
Lovely work on your website, Scott. Would you mind telling me a bit about your materials and process? The stuff really pops out at you.

Sylvester Graham
20-Aug-2007, 15:19
I had the same problem, albeit with 4x5 and PMK... nonetheless the information can be found here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=22917

I determined the problem NOT to be from lens flare/camera tomfoolery/etc... since I processed a fogged piece of film (from an enlarger) I would suggest you do the same. I actually never fixed the problem because I'm an IDIOT. Well, actually I just haven't back to the darkroom in a while, but someday, ahhh, someday I dream of taking a workshop where someone can show me exactly in what manner I'm being an idiot.


P.S. On second thought my thread might be no help to you at all, since pyro is a bit different than other developers. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself can tell.

David A. Goldfarb
20-Aug-2007, 15:32
Thanks all for your answers. Am I right in assuming that I can rule out light leaks if the edges of the film are perfectly clear? Or is there a way for like to get in through the light trap and not leave a trace on the edge?

No, you could have, for instance, a leak where the bellows attaches to the camera back or a problem with the interface of the back and the filmholder, so the light would fog the image area, but not the edges.

That said, it sounds more like bellows flare, from your description of the shooting conditions and effects. The solution is to shade the lens more carefully, ideally with a compendium shade or something similar, like Robert Zeichner's barndoor shade described in another thread.

Ken Lee
20-Aug-2007, 15:55
Another possibility is that the bellows is not tightly attached to the camera. There might be no pin-hole leaks at all.

You can go outdoors, insert a film holder, and keep the lens closed. Remove the dark slide, and wait a minute. Then replace the slide. Now develop the single sheet. Agitate it enough to rule out uneven development. If there is a leak, then this will reveal it.

Another possibility is that the integrity of your film packaging has been compromised. You might want to develop a single unexposed sheet, and see if it is just-plain-fogged.

20-Aug-2007, 16:18
Remember, edge burning used to be SOP in printing.

G Benaim
21-Aug-2007, 01:48
Thanks everyone, I'll test the back and holder seals and let you know how it goes. The camera is a calumet c-1, btw.
David, you're right, of course. I meant holder leaks, wasn't thinking of other kinds.

John Berry
21-Aug-2007, 19:11
You can get extra edge density if you doing single sheets and agitating to agressive. When the wave hits the edge of the tray and comes back at the film causing extra action on the edge relative to the center.

G Benaim
21-Aug-2007, 20:49
Well, I spent all afternoon yesterday testing the camera for leaks, and found the bellows is full of pinholes along the seams. I'm in touch w the store I bought it from, they'll either try to find me a new bellows or refund most of the money. The pinholes closer to the back were probably causing the most damage, but the whole things leaking light. Oh well, that's ebay for you, even if you explicitly ask someone to check a camera, they'll send it without checking and let you deal w it. Thanks everyone for their help.