Whole Plate View Camera website ;)

[Rob_5419]

http://www.wholeplatecamera.com/


So Oren or Sal - which one of you guys is it? :)

It's a beautiful website - I love the vintage design effects. Looking forward to seeing it follow-through.


Anyone else got whole-plate links to show?



Cheers.
Rob

[Oren Grad]

So Oren or Sal - which one of you guys is it? :)


Neither. ;)

[Rob_5419]

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2007/03/ebony-wholeplate.html

That one's yours, right?

Wonder who the wholeplatecamera.com belongs to.

Let's see...


I’ve been spending a lot of time over the last few weekends rationalizing all my camera stuff.

Well that excludes most of the LF gearheads.

The web design is really nice! Must be someone in the tecchy field.

Also, someone who has owned a 35mm + Yashica + Kodak 2D camera before.

Hmm?

[Oren Grad]

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2007/03/ebony-wholeplate.html

That one's yours, right?


Nope. :)

[Rob_5419]

Sorry - Sal's!

I'll get it right eventually ;)

[wfwhitaker]

Reads rather Harmonesque...

[clay harmon]

YEah, it is mine. I have been busy with just about two million other things, thus the lag in postings. Anybody have any cool information to put on it, let me know. My thought was just a static repository of whole plate specific information. You've shamed me now, I guess I will have to add an entry to it. One question: is the theme too corny?

[Rob_5419]

One question: is the theme too corny?

No way! I love the vintage period design of the whole thing. It really fits very well.
Your webskills are pretty cool too - that goes a long way to make the interface really attractive too.

Didn't know the Kodak 2D had a whole plate variant. Just to think - the upgrade to the new Canon 5D is already 85 years old ;)

[Mike Castles]

Too Corny? Nah, consider it retro...that'll mean it's cool Clay.

Just stopped by and really like it. Look forward to seeing more (once a month or so)

[Sal Santamaura]

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2007/03/ebony-wholeplate.html

That one's yours, right?

Wonder who the wholeplatecamera.com belongs to...


Sorry - Sal's!

I'll get it right eventually ;)

The camera on Ebony's site and in that TOP link is mine. The second SV Wholeplate Ebony made and the Web site are Clay's. I've heard recently that a third one is about to be ordered. By whom? It would be up to that person (not named in this thread) to let us know. ;)

[ditkoofseppala]

Very nice indeed, Clay! You are to be congratulated for doing this. What a grand idea!


Anybody have any cool information to put on it, let me know. My thought was just a static repository of whole plate specific information.

So then I take it you welcome contributions from the rest of us on WP topics? And it looks as though, in theory at least, you are prepared to let it grow into a real web resource for whole plate aficionados? With a library of articles on various subjects such as film holders, available film and how to get it, contact printing, historic WP lenses, etc. etc.?

My hat's off to you for your creative initiative! :D

[clay harmon]

Well, yes, that is the idea. Particularly resources, workarounds and kludges. I am beginning to warm to the idea of these semi-static sites where there is a little more deliberation involved in writing the information to be dispersed. The bulletin board model seems to encourage overly brief replies (of which I am certainly guilty) and the occasional flame-war. With this format, if someone violently objects to an article, they just have to go directly to the source instead of making snarky comments just after the objectionable post.

And yes, I would love contributions from others for this site. (with attribution, of course) As you can tell from the dates on the existing posts, it is a lot of work to come up with new material every week or so when you have a bunch of other irons in the fire.

[Rob_5419]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


YEah, it is mine. I have been busy with just about two million other things, thus the lag in postings. Anybody have any cool information to put on it, let me know. My thought was just a static repository of whole plate specific information. You've shamed me now, I guess I will have to add an entry to it.

Hi Clay,

It'd be great to see an info-web project like this take off on the net. Without the coding skills that you have, the best I could use for the bookform plate holder pages I made was an automated journal site, which isn't really ideal for this kind of resource. Seems like an overwhelming majority of respondents like the style of your website - congrats :)

There are a lot of British historical links on wholeplate:

http://www.ted.photographer.org.uk/camera_designs_1.htm
http://www.gtj.org.uk/en/item1/25962
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10243437&wwwflag=2&imagepos=9
http://www.makingthemodernworld.org.uk/icons_of_invention/technology/1820-1880/IC.037/

Maybe separate sections - like building/restoring whole plate cameras; resources for whole plate materials (film); lenses; imaging etc.

Bulletin boards are great for sharing ideas and picking others' brains - more conversational.

By and large you'll be pleased to know that whole plate format photographers don't tend to be like them lot of whinging flamers :)

[ditkoofseppala]

By and large you'll be pleased to know that whole plate format photographers don't tend to be like them lot of whinging flamers :)

Music to my ears, Rob. Life is too short for flame wars. :p

I've solved my own film holder problem for WP, by the by, at a certain cost. (I hope it wasn't you bidding against me ;) ) I managed to get my hands on 5 Kodak Professional DDS cutfilm holders for WP on eBay, though they didn't come cheap. They were in Australia and I wound up forking out AUD610 + 35 s&i, that's around $550 U.S. or CAD587. Maybe I could have had holders somewhat cheaper . . . eventually . . . from Fotoman, but I'm inclined to think he has given rather too keen an initial price indication that he'll probably have to renege on when they go to market anyway. And I kept thinking of the Lotus holders at $450 a pop, which made the Kodaks look like quite a bargain. They look to be in excellent shape at least. My Century still hasn't made it through the post, though I'm looking for it any day now. Not that I can get to use it until after my move; what frustration!

I look forward to contributing to Clay's site. Knowledge bases/management/sharing are a big thing for me. Something like our wee WP movement stands a much better chance of thriving if it's supported by a clear and detailed "one-stop" knowledge base capable of answering all the questions that an enquiring newbie might have.

BTW as to the coding thing, my own experience has been that the fewer bells and whistles, the better. For all the Flash, Javascript, PHP, XML etc. doodah, good old plain vanilla HTML still loads fastest and displays best in *everybody's* browser and OS. I run a BIG informational website for Seppala sleddogs using just HTML and a bit of elementary CSS. The simpler you keep it, the less trouble people with old or oddball OS/browser combinations will have with it. This forum BB causes me great frustration because I'm currently using an 'old' Macintosh G3 300MHz PowerPC tower, with IE5.5 for Mac. This board's pages take a LONG time to load on my system, just because the BB is needlessly inefficient for the simple text-display job that it does. (I use the freeware PHPBB app for forums on my own website, which seems to be a lot faster and does just as much as this forum's vBulletin does.)

[clay harmon]

For what it is worth re the website design: Don't mistake me for any sort of web genius.

All I did was download the existing Wordpress 2.1 software, made sure I had a MySQL database on my webhost, and did the virtually brainless install on my site. I then picked a theme to use. I picked this theme specifically because I like the look, and then I modified a few of the jpegs in photoshop for some site-specific appearance things. Wordpress is a free blogger/content management software that has gazillions of so-called 'themes'. It is ingenious in that I can log in right now, pick up another 'theme' in the admin panel, press apply, and the look of the website will change completely.

There are some photo-blogging themes that can be used with the wordpress system as well, and that might be a great way for someone who is not web savvy to get a lot of work uploaded relatively quickly. And again, you can change the look of the site literally with the press of a button.

Check out:

http://www.wordpress.org

and

http://themes.wordpress.net

[Howard Tanger]

Hi Sal: Perhaps I am the third person that you mention in your post. I ordered an Ebony Wholeplate on 09 August from Badger Graphic Sales. Now comes the wait, 2 to 3 months I understand. Next item(s) will be film holders. This camera will continue my learning experience in large format. I've exposed a few sheets of 4x5 and 5x7 but I still consider myself a newbie with large format. Howard Tanger

[Rob_5419]

Hi Howard,

welcome to the forum! It'd be great to hear how you get on with the whole-plate format and the Ebony. It's lovely to hear you're starting large format photography with whole plate - no messing around with anything else ;)



All I did was download the existing Wordpress 2.1 software, made sure I had a MySQL database on my webhost, and did the virtually brainless install on my site. I then picked a theme to use. I picked this theme specifically because I like the look, and then I modified a few of the jpegs in photoshop for some site-specific appearance things. Wordpress is a free blogger/content management software that has gazillions of so-called 'themes'. It is ingenious in that I can log in right now, pick up another 'theme' in the admin panel, press apply, and the look of the website will change completely.

Clay - that's completely gone over my head. Does it give you some idea of how little I like digital technology. Nevermind, must try and learn...

DKS - that's quite expensive! I didn't drive up the price of the antipodean DDS's by bidding against you either. In England, used whole-plate holders sell for around £20 each. I don't mind paying the price that Fotoman want, partly because I'd like to see them succeed for their vision. Besides - I'm more than happy with the beautiful mahogany bookform whole plate holders which are from another world.

I had some whole plate DDS's and the darkslides were cracked. These are large versions of the 5x4" Fidelity slides made by Kodak Great Britain (I think that's what it was called). The larger whole plate darkslides are no thicker than the 5x4" but with a larger surface area, they are more prone to damage. Compared to the bookform holders, the whole plate DDS's I had were either chipped/cracked, or had the frummelly twiddly wire frommitz-thing missing.

Crikey. Are you going to be able to carry all of that on a whole plate shooting trip, or are you going to get a Julia Margaret Cameron wagon to go with it?

Ahhh - I almost forget. You have Ditkoofseppala and a sled to carry everything. I just need an electric golf caddy...

[Sal Santamaura]

Hi Sal: Perhaps I am the third person that you mention in your post...No Howard, Jeff doesn't report orders to me. That means you're a confirmed third and there's a fourth about to be ordered by someone else.

Glad to see another 6.5x8.5 user to bolster Ilford's sales during next year's special order period. Buy lots!

[audioexcels]

Well, yes, that is the idea. Particularly resources, workarounds and kludges. I am beginning to warm to the idea of these semi-static sites where there is a little more deliberation involved in writing the information to be dispersed. The bulletin board model seems to encourage overly brief replies (of which I am certainly guilty) and the occasional flame-war. With this format, if someone violently objects to an article, they just have to go directly to the source instead of making snarky comments just after the objectionable post.

And yes, I would love contributions from others for this site. (with attribution, of course) As you can tell from the dates on the existing posts, it is a lot of work to come up with new material every week or so when you have a bunch of other irons in the fire.

So what do you use for those beautiful panoramic shots???

Wonderful site, btw...very nicely layed out, and sophisticated. Now I think it's time to get a little gallery of WP shots in there:)

[Diane Maher]

Glad to see another 6.5x8.5 user to bolster Ilford's sales during next year's special order period. Buy lots!

I bought lots of wp film this past year.

[ditkoofseppala]

I bought lots of wp film this past year.

Well, yay you, Diane! :D Gonna USE it all, I hope?

BTW, exactly WHEN is Ilford's special-order window of opportunity? I'm very new both to WP and the LF forum and haven't yet run across that specific bit of information. Wouldn't want to miss out when the next chance rolls around! Seems to me I've also heard somebody mention some eastern European firm that regularly stocks its own obscure emulsion in WP -- who would that be, and is there a USA or Canada contact for them, or is it a direct-order situation? I haven't got the film-supply thing worked out yet. :o

[Sal Santamaura]

...BTW, exactly WHEN is Ilford's special-order window of opportunity?...Wouldn't want to miss out when the next chance rolls around!...If the past two years are any indication, it will open around the first of next year and close roughly six weeks later. Simon Galley of Ilford has promised that the next round will be much better publicized, so watch for announcements here, on apug.org and via Ilford's North American distributor (Wynit) and participating dealers probably starting this December.


,,,I've also heard somebody mention some eastern European firm that regularly stocks its own obscure emulsion in WP -- who would that be, and is there a USA or Canada contact for them, or is it a direct-order situation?...That would be retro photographic in the UK and the Wephota NP22. Its Web site

http://www.retrophotographic.com/npfilms.htm

and

http://www.retrophotographic.com/shop/53/index.htm

hasn't revealed any way to order outside the EU, and I haven't called to check since Ilford's special order program fulfills all my needs for top-quality 6.5x8.5 film.

[Rob_5419]

BTW, exactly WHEN is Ilford's special-order window of opportunity? I'm very new both to WP and the LF forum and haven't yet run across that specific bit of information. Wouldn't want to miss out when the next chance rolls around! Seems to me I've also heard somebody mention some eastern European firm that regularly stocks its own obscure emulsion in WP -- who would that be, and is there a USA or Canada contact for them, or is it a direct-order situation? I haven't got the film-supply thing worked out yet. :o

I almost missed it too - Simon Galley of Ilford mentioned that it wasn't publicised much outside of apug which meant a lot of us would still be cutting film and doing other strange things to make whole plate work.

The Ilford ULF run usually starts in spring (rebirth and all that pagan stuff) around March. This year's order was extended well into April which gave us a lot of time. Again, the ULF programme that Ilford run seems more of an American continental venture: unless I'm mistaken, the Ilford film which I received was cut in the States and despatched back to the UK. Or possibly awaiting cutting once the US orders were al finalised.

Some ULF users have found it worthwhile just checking with the named retailer in case they carry excess stock. I don't know if this applies to whole plate film.

Sal - I take it you aren't using an ultra fine grain/slow ISO whole pate film then.

it's a new idea, working with just one or two emulsions for me. I've always been used to using very fine slow grained film, so Ilford's FP4+ was a little fast for me and this is the first year I've settled on one emulsion. I use barrel lenses, most of which still haven't resolved the shutter issues which is why I've resorted to using lith film and infrared films for the slow ISO (coupled with red 29 and 8x neutral density filters) just to get a slow enough shutter speed for the barrel lenses.

The other issue which affect the US clients next year is the abysmal exchange rate for $ from £ sterling. If this continues, then whole plate film is going to be around 50% more expensive than it was compared to this year's batch.

I wonder if Clay is happy for links like the Ilford ULF programme etc and a links' page to blossom on his neat WP site?

[Sal Santamaura]

...unless I'm mistaken, the Ilford film which I received was cut in the States and despatched back to the UK...

...Sal - I take it you aren't using an ultra fine grain/slow ISO whole pate film then. All the film was cut at Ilford's factory in the UK. All my 6.5x8.5 shooting has been on FP4 Plus, which is fine for contact printing. Since I've now got equipment that will enable enlarging of these negatives, I'm looking forward to the possibility that next year's offering will include 6.5x8.5 Delta 100. Simon Galley has indicated Ilford will consider doing that.

[Robert Hughes]

Hold on, I'm confused. Doesn't whole plate refer to a glass negative photographic plate? Or is it merely a film dimension bigger than 5x7 (plural dementia)? Sounds rather obscure (with film availability once a year), why not just shoot 8x10 and be done with it?

[Rob_5419]

Hold on, I'm confused. Doesn't whole plate refer to a glass negative photographic plate? Or is it merely a film dimension bigger than 5x7 (plural dementia)? Sounds rather obscure (with film availability once a year), why not just shoot 8x10 and be done with it?

Robert,

keep with it! You're missing out only about 150 years of history.

Whole plate refers to WHOLE PLATE i.e 6 1/2 x 8 1/2 inches. It was the 'industry standard since a German prince inaugurated it in England with ferrotypes in the 18th century well before the photographic process was invented. Originally it was ferrotype; translated to the photographic process; it became 'glass' plates. Then again in the 20th century - 'film' of 'plate' size.

The glass plate dimension cuts were driven by the standards of the Ferrotype: Pilkington, one of England's most innovative glass makers cut sheet, roll and other glasses with special tooling in the 19th century which enabled output efficiency: thus their survival into the 19th century. That's why Daguerre and others originally used whole plates sourced in England. The simple problem being reiterated today - film costs and spiralling production costs in Europe had driven prices up, so England was a natural selection for whole plate glass.

8x10" is a different format. Have you handled a whole plate camera compared to an 8x10"? I used a Wista 8x10" for most of my working career and whole plate dimensions are more ergonomic and manageable.

Looks like you might benefit from typing in 'whole plate' into the LF search engine (hope it brings up some info which you need for enlightenment).

:)

[Richard K.]

Hi Sal: Perhaps I am the third person that you mention in your post. I ordered an Ebony Wholeplate on 09 August from Badger Graphic Sales. Now comes the wait, 2 to 3 months I understand. Next item(s) will be film holders. This camera will continue my learning experience in large format. I've exposed a few sheets of 4x5 and 5x7 but I still consider myself a newbie with large format. Howard Tanger

Hi Howard;

I can't give anything away yet but I'm pretty sure that there may be a SECOND third person who is about to order one; he's just getting the deposit together...

Richard K.

PS Did Badger require a deposit? (I'll pass on the information to the second third person)

[Howard Tanger]

Hi Howard;

I can't give anything away yet but I'm pretty sure that there may be a SECOND third person who is about to order one; he's just getting the deposit together...

Richard K.

PS Did Badger require a deposit? (I'll pass on the information to the second third person)

Richard, I am not sure about requiring a deposit; I just mailed Jeff full payment for the camera.

Cordially, Howard Tanger

[Diane Maher]

Well, yay you, Diane! :D Gonna USE it all, I hope?

BTW, exactly WHEN is Ilford's special-order window of opportunity? I'm very new both to WP and the LF forum and haven't yet run across that specific bit of information. Wouldn't want to miss out when the next chance rolls around! Seems to me I've also heard somebody mention some eastern European firm that regularly stocks its own obscure emulsion in WP -- who would that be, and is there a USA or Canada contact for them, or is it a direct-order situation? I haven't got the film-supply thing worked out yet. :o

Yes, I am going to use it all. It seems that they start taking orders in January. Last year was kind of weird though. I hope it goes smoother this year.

[Ash]

I want a whole plate camera now >.<

[Jim Galli]

While you guys are throwing around $$$$'s or dollars figuring out how to shoot whole plate, I've been making 6.5X8.5 with an old Kodak reducing back on the 8X10 2D and some of that 18X24 defective film that J&C was blowing out for like $18 per hundred cut down.


http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/RayK_X2.jpg
Ray K times 2

Kodak 2D 8X10, Packard shutter, Cooke 12 3/4" Knuckler, 2 agreeable cowboys, last Saturday night.

[Rob_5419]

Confused about the Kodak 2D.

Ash - what Kodak plate camera did you have? Was this a 5x7' modification on a traditional half-plate Kodak?

The Americans here seem to refer to a Kodak 2D as a whole plate camera format rather than the British Kodak half-plate variant. Is that right?

Jim - nice work on a budget option! Just say hi to Howard and Richard and make them feel welcome pleaze...this is a whole plate format thread, not one of those other threads :)

[Jim Galli]

Didn't mean to stir up dust. A Kodak 2D can be anything from 4X5 to 11X14. I am lucky enough to have a lovely English Kodak full plate reducing back for my very ordinary 8X10 2D.

[ditkoofseppala]

Great pic, Jim -- gave me quite a laugh when I saw it, just something about the cocky attitude of your two white-hatted subjects! And yep, lucky guy to have that handy English WP reducing back.

I'm still waiting for my Century to arrive. Summer mail delivery seems to be slow as cold molasses with all the long-weekend holidays coming right, left and centre on both sides of the border. Oh well, not that I could go right out and start shooting. No film! Unlike canny Diane, I got bitten by the WP bug too late for Ilford's annual special-order window. Not that it matters that much; it'll probably take me all winter to get a darkroom up and running as it can't happen UNTIL I get moved and UNTIL all the sleddogs are provided for with fences, doghouses, and all that they need to face the prairie winter. So I'll put my order in come January and hope to start shooting when spring arrives! (Patience is a virtue, they say).

[Howard Tanger]

While you guys are throwing around $$$$'s or dollars figuring out how to shoot whole plate,....

Hi Jim: I would like to respond but I will keep my mouth shut!

Somewhat cordially, Howard Tanger

[Jim Galli]

Hi Jim: I would like to respond but I will keep my mouth shut!

Somewhat cordially, Howard Tanger
What I would have done if I had any class. My apologies.

[Howard Tanger]

What I would have done if I had any class. My apologies.

Accepted. Cordially, Howard

[C Henry]

Rob 5419,

When I was on holiday in Namibia earlier this year, I saw a Kodak 2D whole plate camera in a shop in Windhoek that was selling photographic prints. (I asked the shop assistant whether it was for sale, and she said no, that they used it as a decoration. I huffed and puffed, but they refused to sell it to me.)

[Dave Wooten]

Henry you should have reported them to the appropriate authorities!

[Rob_5419]

Henry you should have reported them to the appropriate authorities!

That's when you might discover in Namibia, that the shotgun on display can be used for other purposes..:rolleyes:

C Henry - that's what we're up against! All those collectors intent on hoarding equipment rather than letting it being used. I don't know which is worse for the whole plate camera market - its collectability due to its history, or its undermarketability as a user camera due to its collectability.

[Ash]

Rob my Kodak SI mkII is a half-plate, the spring back accepts 5x7 holders however.

I made myself a 4x5 reducer also.

[John Ossi]

I wonder whether anyone has tried cutting a 6.5x8.5 inch window in an 8x10 dark slide and, when the holder is in place in the camera, removing the regular dark slide and replacing it with this one. This would allow the use of easily available 8x10 film and would leave a nice protective margin around the image. I am currently without an 8x10 and can't try this, but would be interested to know whether it would work.
John Ossi

[clay harmon]

This is in fact just what I did to decide if I like the format or not. I cut a black paper mask for the back of my ground glass, and had a darkslide with the whole plate hole in it that I used for the exposure. The only downside is that the margin is not crisp, because the edges sit a small distance above the film during exposure. But as an inexpensive way to check out the format, it is very do-able.

[Rob_5419]

Rob my Kodak SI mkII is a half-plate, the spring back accepts 5x7 holders however.

I made myself a 4x5 reducer also.

Yes...I thought so. Can't say I've ever seen a Kodak whole-plate camera floating around in England. Is yours heavy? I wonder how much heavier a whole plate Kodak would be. I quite like whole plate cameras to remain around 2kg max.

How come these Kodak dinosaurs became extinct! Sandersons, Butchers, Gandolfis seem to have thrived despite being twice as old? :confused:


I wonder whether anyone has tried cutting a 6.5x8.5 inch window in an 8x10 dark slide and, when the holder is in place in the camera, removing the regular dark slide and replacing it with this one. This would allow the use of easily available 8x10 film and would leave a nice protective margin around the image. I am currently without an 8x10 and can't try this, but would be interested to know whether it would work.

No experience per se. Have seen examples from other photographers, cutting down format sizes with 5x4". Modifying the camera back to a proper whole plate dimension may be a better longer term solution than the darkslide itself as the light will flare through the gap that Clay describes, leaving an erratic margin. I guess this gets worse with time-exposures too.

If a 10x8" bookform plate holder existed, then it would be a simple task to mask down the 10x8@ bookform plate holder to wholeplate, by inserting a black card margin mask directly in front of the 10x8" film sheet. This would give cleaner margins.

However 10x8" bookform plate holders would be as heavy as a library and in any case, as a mutant format, came well after whole plate.

:D

[Ash]

Rob, the 1/2P is HEAVY. Possibly my heaviest camera, ever!

My thoughts are they became extinct because Kodak is one of the more modern companies, constantly evolving trying to keep on top of the market meaning discontinuing and redeveloping for current trends and needs, hence the anti-film mentality in recent times???

[Rob_5419]

Rob, the 1/2P is HEAVY. Possibly my heaviest camera, ever!

My thoughts are they became extinct because Kodak is one of the more modern companies, constantly evolving trying to keep on top of the market meaning discontinuing and redeveloping for current trends and needs, hence the anti-film mentality in recent times???

Lol!!

That just about sums up the history of Kodak in one paragraph ;)

But then, where are those Kodak whole plate cameras? Maybe they weren't marketed in the UK as they were in the USA?
Not good to hear it's so heavy. I wonder how heavy the Kodak whole plate variant is then?

[Oren Grad]

I wonder how heavy the Kodak whole plate variant is then?

I think my Eastman No. 2 is somewhere between 8 and 9 lb. Although I've not had a UK-made Kodak WP camera in hand, the few I've seen in pictures don't look wildly different in construction from mine.

[Rob_5419]

Thanks Oren -

I've been looking around and 4kg seems to be standard for a camera of this size. The Kodak whole-plates were more chunky (solid). Seems like there was a British thing about design and engineering - most of the British wartime whole-plates were more like English 1960's pre-fab housing: very blocky, utilitarian and serviceable.

Going back a 100 years, the Gandolfi and Sandersons have an elegance which is incredible. The more i probe into the wood-carpentry that went into the Sanderson, the more astounded I am by it. Its' mahogany wood has aged beautifully with yellow grain showing in the mahogany wood. It still weighs in at around 2.5 kg: because the base plate is absent, and a base tripod unit would add on another 250 grams.

Going overseas to the Far East, the Chartens and Nagaokas of the whole plate dimensions were also considerably lighter than the British designs: approximately half of the weight of the regular British medium weights. That is phenomenal for light-travelling but at the cost of stability (there must be a way around this?).




Just another thought on:


I wonder whether anyone has tried cutting a 6.5x8.5 inch window in an 8x10 dark slide and, when the holder is in place in the camera, removing the regular dark slide and replacing it with this one.

If this was machined out from aluminium metal possibly with a bevelled edge, would the margin be more accurate for 8x10" users going down a reduction mask route?

[cyrus]

I have a rather strange wooden 8x10 holder which I suspect started out as a glass plate holder rather than a film holder as it has a "film holder sheath"- a metal insert that actually holds the film made by graflex. If I remove the sheath - which comes out - can I slide a piece of glass in there instead? Does that mean I can slide it into my deardorff and use it as a plate camera?

[Rob_5419]

Cyrus,

that's highly possible. Is there a spring clip in the middle of your 8x10 holder, to apply pressure against the metal sheath? If so, then a glass of the same thickness as the metal sheath (thickness+ edge margins, which is approximately 2mm in total) can be used. If you can find 8x10" plates or make them yourself, there's no reason why you shouldn't use it as a plate camera. Or inserting a sheet of glass to 'protect' the film and shoot that way. It depends on whether you feel you can get a sheet of glass in and out without fracturing inside the holder.

The foreseeable difficulty is that with only one holder, photographic would be very slow.

[Ole Tjugen]

Cyrus, I have (and use) three wooden 18x24cm plate holders with film sheaths. I've only used them with film so far, but there's a pack of 18x24cm plated in my fridge... :)

The external dimensions of these holders are the same as modern 8x10" holders, with the raised ridge and all. Except that they're "bookform plate holders"!

[audioexcels]

Cyrus, I have (and use) three wooden 18x24cm plate holders with film sheaths. I've only used them with film so far, but there's a pack of 18x24cm plated in my fridge... :)

The external dimensions of these holders are the same as modern 8x10" holders, with the raised ridge and all. Except that they're "bookform plate holders"!

How much do they weigh compared to the 8X10 holders?

Also,

How easy/difficult is it to use them vs. modern type holders?

[Ole Tjugen]

I can't give you an exact weight right now as I'm quite a long way from home (without a camera), but the weight is not much more than "regular" holders.

In use they are exactly as easy/difficult as modern type holders - insert holder, pull darkslide, expose, insert darkslide...

Loading them is a little bit trickier, but unlike modern holders the old bookform ones are easily loaded in a changing bag. :)

[cyrus]

I can't give you an exact weight right now as I'm quite a long way from home (without a camera), but the weight is not much more than "regular" holders.

In use they are exactly as easy/difficult as modern type holders - insert holder, pull darkslide, expose, insert darkslide...

Loading them is a little bit trickier, but unlike modern holders the old bookform ones are easily loaded in a changing bag. :)


Thanks Ole & Rob
I think "bookform" holders are different than these. Anyway, mine too look and function like a regular filmholder. At some point a Graflex No. 3 metal "sheath" was put in that allowed the user to convert it from a glass holder to a film holder - the sheath acts as an adaptor that holds film (but I don't know how well that would have worked since the sheath itself has a certain thickness so the film location would not match with the focus plane?) No spring though . . .

They're roughly the same weight as the regular WOODEN holders of course not plastic ones. Once the 2 glass sheets go in I assume they'll be much heavier since glass is pretty heavy (wonder if my camera back can take it?) I haven't tried them but I think these would fit just like a regular filmholder.

I have two of these holders (was ripped off on an ebay sale but decided to keep them as a curiosity.) One works just like a regular 8x10 double dark holder but the other is much harder to use. Instead of a flap where the film slides in, the whole edge comes off that one, in multiple parts, so to allow you to insert the glass sheet - but the parts don't fit very tight. I don't think I'll be using that holder much at all.

So, good to know that If I ever have to rely on glass negatives rather than film, I have at least 1 holder that can be used in my deardorff. I think going through the process of coating/shooting/developing more than 2 sheets at a time will be a serious hassle anyway.

Maybe I should get some glass cut to fit and buy some liquid emulsion just for a test shot . . . I understand that the speed of the emulsions used on dryplate glass is something like EI 1 or .5 so we're talking about long exposures!

[wfwhitaker]

I think my Eastman No. 2 is somewhere between 8 and 9 lb. Although I've not had a UK-made Kodak WP camera in hand, the few I've seen in pictures don't look wildly different in construction from mine.

Just weighed my 6 1/2 x 8 1/2 RB Cycle Graphic at 7 lb 12oz. That's without a lens, of course.

[sanking]

Has anyone noticed there is a Gandolfi whole plate camera now on ebay?

Sandy king

[cyrus]

Has anyone noticed there is a Gandolfi whole plate camera now on ebay?

Sandy king

...OH THANKS A LOT! I was hoping no one would notice! DARN! Its all the way in the UK. You don't want it, trust me.

[Richard K.]

Has anyone noticed there is a Gandolfi whole plate camera now on ebay?

Sandy king

347 people noticed but no one was telling!
:( Now, we'll really have to bid big! Can anyone tell if this is a film or plate camera? Vintage?

[Rob_5419]

Maybe I should get some glass cut to fit and buy some liquid emulsion just for a test shot . . . I understand that the speed of the emulsions used on dryplate glass is something like EI 1 or .5 so we're talking about long exposures!

Cyrus - EI 1 is perfect for barrel lenses.

Besides, even with a modern film like Velvia 50, I find with a Schneider 47mm XL at f22 with a centre filter and evening light, I'm running into seconds in any case.

With your metal sheath holder, you can use 2mm plexiglass as well. It's considerably lighter and isn't so static attracting either (compared to cardboard).


Has anyone noticed there is a Gandolfi whole plate camera now on ebay?

Yes...it came up automatically. I was looking at the Frankenplatecamera (Globus Ernemann plate camera with a DDS back) in the States though. It's a lot cheaper, except that it seems to have been made from different manufacturers - front, back and middle!

The Gandolfi camera seller has minimum feedback. He's also a little cagey in describing its condition. From here, I can't see what he means by whole plate at all. Need to find my glasses or ask for larger images...

No way is that camera leaving the UK for you Yanks! ;)

[Oren Grad]

Gandolfi: very cool.

Spotted an unusual WP camera on Glenn Evans' website today. It's the Toyo half-plate metal field camera equipped with a whole plate adapter back. It's not a solid pyramidal expander back like the Rittreck yatsugiri back; this back comes with a bellows and sits on a couple of extension rails. It's hard to tell from the pictures whether the back will focus, or whether the bellows is just a means of achieving lightweight extension. But it does replicate the swing and tilt movements of the body. I've never seen this before, and didn't know it exists. As usual, he's asking a bundle for it, but it's interesting to see, at least.

While y'all are busy ogling cameras, I'm heading downstairs to the darkroom right now to develop a couple of drumloads of WP negatives...

[Jim Galli]

No way is that camera leaving the UK for you Yanks! ;)

Ooooooo. I love a challenge. Just kidding :D:D Still, a Gandolfi....

[Richard K.]

No way is that camera leaving the UK for you Yanks! ;)

What about for a Canuck?;)

[Richard K.]

Does any one here know if Fidelity/Lisco ever made whole-plate size film holders?
Thanks!

[Richard K.]

Does any one here know if Fidelity/Lisco ever made whole-plate size film holders?
Thanks!

You're wondering if they fit that circa 1960 Gandolfi that's currently on eBay aren't you?;)

[Oren Grad]

Does any one here know if Fidelity/Lisco ever made whole-plate size film holders?

I've never seen one. Nine years ago when I bought my first WP camera I asked Calumet about it, but my inquiry reached a dead end and I never did get a clear answer.

[Richard K.]

I've never seen one. Nine years ago when I bought my first WP camera I asked Calumet about it, but my inquiry reached a dead end and I never did get a clear answer.

Hmmm, the fellow that's selling the Gandolfi on eBay e-mailed me that he used to use Fidelity holders with it but he no longer has them....

[Oren Grad]

Hmmm, the fellow that's selling the Gandolfi on eBay e-mailed me that he used to use Fidelity holders with it but he no longer has them....

I've seen Hoffmans (I have a couple), but never a WP Fidelity. That would be a great find.