Howtek Scanmaster 4500 (need Advice)

[rupal]

Hi all, I am looking at buying a refurbished "Howtek Scanmaster 4500" drum scanner to use mainly for scanning 4x5 film. I have the new 24" intel IMac which i want to use to do the scans with. Will a SCSI2 to USB\FireWire adapter work with it & will i be able to use it within OSX (10.4) or Windows (via Bootcamp) using Silverfast AI ? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks - Rupa

[Tyler Boley]

Since no one has directly answered, I'll tell you what little I know. I run a 4500. I've not heard of anyone using an adapter, the scanner interface is scsi. Those I know are running a scsi card out of a computer that will accept one. Tiger supports fewer scsi cards than Panter or older OSs. Check to make sure you get one that works with your OS, and you might even check with Silverfast to see if they have a recommendation as well. You might also ask on this forum-
http://www.masteringdigitalbwbook.com/forums/index.php?
since I know Amadou went through the same issues with his Howtek and Tiger When he went from Panther to Tiger, he had to toss his scsi card and get another, more expensive one.
The IMac may be your dilema, obvioulsy some sort of adapter would be in order and I have no news of anyone using one for this purpose.
Also, join and ask here-
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ScanHi-End/
Tyler

[Doug Dolde]

I think Danny Burk runs one of these you could ask him. http://www.dannyburk.com/

[Dave Jeffery]

Tyler,

I'm also considering purchasing a Howtek 4500 or newer scanner. I read all the messages at Yahoo scanner high end. If you have the time I'm wondering:

1. How long does it take to learn to start making good scans
2. If you were to buy a drum scanner today what would you aim for
3. What are major expenses that one might not anticipate when buying a Howtek/ Aztek? or operating expenses?
4. Any other recommendations? eg. buy a Creo, don't buy refurbished - only buy refurbished, check drum for damage, dongle, software, old vs. newer Mac?????

TIA

[Rich Voninski]

I have a few Howtek D4000's which are very similiar to the 4500 but with a smaller drum. I'll take a stab at your questions.

1. How long does it take to learn to start making good scans

I use Silverfast for the Howtek (my version is the same as the one for the 4500) and since I was already familiar with using it on the Epson 4870 it didnt take very long. What will take some time and patience is learning to properly wetmount your trans/negs. At first I thought something was wrong with my mounting station since I couldnt get a mount without some air bubbles but now I know that I just needed practice to get it right.

2. If you were to buy a drum scanner today what would you aim for

There was a post out here a year or so ago (about a zillion pages long I think) where people really went through different drum scanners advantages/disadvatages etc). I archive my 4x5's at 3200 DPI which produces ~550MB files and ample data to produce 40x50 prints (with screaming levels of detail). I have been happy with the howteks. But i am certain I could be happy with others too.

3. What are major expenses that one might not anticipate when buying a Howtek/ Aztek? or operating expenses?

Since you are buying a used piece of equipment it is kinda like buying a used car. Things will break and/or just work weirdly (like an old car would). Parts cost a lot of money dirtectly from Aztek. My solution to this problem has been to buy a spare machine as a parts machine. For the most part these things are built like a tank. Also, keep in mind that the software needed for the scanner will cost money. And supplies to get up and running (ie: fluids, mylar, wipes, tape etc will probably be about $200 and I do buy these directly from Aztek).

4. Any other recommendations? eg. buy a Creo, don't buy refurbished - only buy refurbished, check drum for damage, dongle, software, old vs. newer Mac?????

I bought all of my scanners through the Bay and have had one kick the bucket (now - my parts box). If you do get a chance to test the scanner before buying it find an old transparency with tons of clear blue sky. Run the scanner at the maximum resolution (for D4500/D4000 it will be 4000dpi). Look for any anomilies/problems in the sky of the scanned image. If there are problems with the scanner they will pop up there.

Email me if you have more questions. Hope that helps.

Rich Voninski

[Tyler Boley]

I'd agree with everything Rich said...

I read a lot and was making pretty good scans very quickly. I also already had a lot of color management experience. As Rich says, mounting is the learning curve, only experience seems to work. Slowly it just seemed to work out. For trannies it's mainly good profiles, and a clean no tweaking workflow.
For negs, things take more futzing. I tend to play with opening the aperture to avoid over resolved grain from the collomated light.
I was a total novice and didn't check to make sure I was getting a decent mounting station and software, so check for that. If it's old software, make sure it'll run on a box you own, and make sure there is a dongle. Supplies will be an initial expense. I use some Prazio and Some Aztek, I prefer to support more than one company, Prazio is excellent.
Old vs newer Mac will completely depend on software, many have no problem running old unsupported software on an old box forever, makes sense to me if it works.
The biggest concern is the condition of the unit, they are precision machines, shipping damage is the common nightmare. I happen to think Howtek 4xxx's are the good deal out there.
Good luck,
Tyler

[deatojef]

Visit this thread: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=27392

I agree with the other posters...it's not rocket science, but it does take some time to pull all the variables together that make a good scan - everything from color management to scanner aperature, to silverfast, to wet mounting.

Wet mounting can be the most frustrating experience you've ever come across, but after a few attempts it'll be second nature. As Rich mentioned getting the bubbles out from underneath the mylar sheet can be challenging some times. If you have 4x5 negs/slides that have the little clamp marks in the corners from development ...well... those little things are evil incarnate. Bubbles will love them and I have on a couple of occasions simply cut them off the transparency with some small scissors. I've heard of some using non-teethed (i.e. flat surfaced) needle nosed pliers to "flatten" down the film where those crimp marks are, but I've used regular needled nosed pliers successfully as well.

The Yahoo group ScanHi-End has quite a few files/docs that members have posted on how to wet mount film on the drum and scanning in general.

I use a D4500 with silverfast, a PPC mac, and the ratoc firewire-to-SCSI converter successfully. Also like Rich I bought a "parts" unit which has been very useful.

Silverfast itself doesn't require a herculean effort to learn, but there are some nuances that beg to be figured out. I would suggest that you scan a small piece of film or only scan a small area of a 4x5 that way you can see the results of your scanner/silverfast settings much quicker. Otherwise if you jump right in and scan a 4x5 at 4000dpi you'll be waiting for about 1.5hrs for the scan to complete. I have upon occasion mounted up four 4x5 images on the drum at once, set silverfast to batch scan, and went to bed.

Over,
-Jeff

[Rich Voninski]

Jeff,

Do you make modifications to the aperature size? I haven't done anything with taht but would be curious if you have and why? how? you make a decsion to change the aperature settings?

Thanks.

Rich Voninski

[deatojef]

Yes I have changed the aperature size away from the default for a given DPI. I'm no master scanner, but I believe the concept of DPI to be tied to the aperature size used on the drum scanner (i.e. the native resolutions). That using a smaller aperature means essentially selecting a smaller "pixel" size when scanning and consequently a higher DPI.

I believe Silverfast selects the aperature automatically for you based on the DPI setting selected. I'm speculating, but I would think that it selects the aperature that results in a "native" resolution closest to the DPI you want, then interpolates/resizes/something to get the rest of the way there. So if you scan at a DPI of 1800 then Silverfast would select an aperature of 13 microns which gives a native resolution of 2000. Then Silverfast would delete/interpolate/munge the pixels down to get to your 1800 DPI number. Or something like that.

Setting the aperature to a smaller value than what is the "default" can enhance grain/sharpness which I've rarely done and I'm not sure, but I think you might loose information because the pixel size is too small for a given DPI - I haven't really thought hard about that. Rather I've set the aperature size to one notch larger than what the default would dictate in an attempt to reduce graininess (ex. from 6 to 13 microns). I experimented and scanned a single image repeatedly, varying the aperature setting just to get a feel for the effect. It took all day, but showed me that it can provide a nice "smoothing" effect to the image without really sacrificing much in the way of sharpness. In my very amateur opinion if you have an image with regions where reducing graininess is advantageous (ex. lots of blue sky, portraits, etc) then reducing the aperature a notch can soften it without adversely affecting sharpness. This might also depend upon the degree of enlargement as to whether any "graininess" would even show up on the final print at all.

The attachment is from Chris Brown (I think) from the Yahoo ScanHi-End group and lists the native resolutions for the D4500.

-Jeff

[Dave Jeffery]

Thanks Rich, Tyler and Jeff!


Are there any books, manuals or any other sources of information I could study as I save for the scanner?

Thanks again!

[IanMazursky]

Hi Dave,

Give the guys over at aztek a ring if you need more information.
www.aztek.com

This is the link to the manuals page for the howtek line of scanners.

http://www.aztek.com/Howtek%20Pages/User%20Guides.html

I own a 7500 and they are great. Definitely would recommend them. The support from aztek is excellent.

Good luck
-ian

[Tyler Boley]

None that I know of. I read the entire archives of the hi end scanner list on yahoo before starting. Even though opinions vary wildly, it was an education.
Tyler

[HB_Chris]

Rupa,


I have a 4500 that I bought Refurbished from Bob Weber (http://www.bob-weber.com/index.asp)and it has served me beautifully. They included a Ratoc SCSI - Firewire adapter and the results were spotty. I would have to restart the driver software every time I restarted my mac. I just got annoyed and put a Scsi card in my G5. You may be able to resolve the issue I had. Once I got it working it was seamless, and scanned fine. I just felt a Scsi card was a better route.

Hope this helps,
Chris

[susanaberry]

Hi.... I have been reading all your advices. Thank you, very much. It is helping me a lot. We just get this Scanner, and I am learnign how to use it. I found the user manual on this page "Dave Jeffery". http://www.aztek.com/Howtek%20Pages/Guides/Scanners/Scanmaster4500.pdf