Can someone give a Recommendation of a good field camera for 4*5”

[esbtse]

Hi,
I have a view camera but if it is too heavy to carry long distances I may switch to a Field.
What Field camera is best for Landscape Photo and mountain trekking?
I use 90, 120 and 240 and I shall add a long/tele lens of 400/450 to the equipment pile.
Regards,
Thomas

[Bruce Watson]

I use a Toho FC-45X (http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm) for hiking. Excellent camera, it might be the lightest field 5x4 camera made. Works well with my 80mm SS-XL, and will handle the 450mm lenses with a top hat lens board.

Of course, there are many choices, so YMMV.

[Scott Davis]

Search the forum here to get some answers - there are lots of devotees of different cameras out here, and they'll all sing the praises of their own favorites. My personal recommendation for a 4x5 field is, if you have the budget, a Canham. Keith Canham makes a beautiful all-metal 4x5 field camera that is lightweight aluminum, and folds into a very compact package. For something a bit more traditional looking, he makes a wood and aluminum field camera. I have the 5x7 version of the Canham wood field camera, and it is a fine instrument.
If you either want or need to save money, a Shen Hao. I also have a Shen Hao 4x5, which is very inexpensive, quite portable, and has more movements than most lenses have image circle. It is not as good for long lenses because like many 4x5 field cameras it has limited bellows draw. IF you get a true telephoto design, you can use a 300 or 400 telephoto and still focus reasonably close with the Shen Hao.

[Ron Marshall]

Read the reviews on the front page of this site:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/roundup4x5.html

There are many excellent field cameras, most are fairly similar.

I also have a Toho which I am very happy with. It is about 1.3 kg. If you want one as light as possible that is the one to get.

[Ole Tjugen]

Thomas,

Since "they'll all sing the praises of their own favorites", I feel free to mention my own recommendations:

At present I use a Gandolfi Traditional 5x7"; the same in 8x10"; a Carbon Infinity 4x5" and a 4x5" Speed Graphic...

The CI is perfect for me, but it's generally unobtainable. The SG has the advantage of a focal plane shutter, which lets me use just about any lens ever made - with or without shutter.

But if I had to choose only one camera, it would be the 5x7" Gandolfi, with a 4x5" back. That one camera has sufficient movements, exellent stability, and handles both short and long lenses with equal ease. It also weighs quite a bit less than the CI, and has the added advantage that it can use both 4x5" and 5x7" backs.

[esbtse]

Thank you for the advices. I’m going to get a second hand Field camera after I bout the long lens. Is there a problem to get the cameras on example ebay that you mendshend?

[Ole Tjugen]

With the exception of the "generally unobtainable" Carbon Infinity, all the cameras mentioned show up on ebay at least every once in a while. Keep an eye on tradera.se too - but I suspect you know about that already? :)

There's a little problem here in that much of the advice you've been given is perfectly good, if you happen to live in the USA. Add postage and customs, and suddenly it isn't such a good deal after all! So trying to find what you want in Germany (ebay.de) or the UK (ebay.co.uk) might be worth your while.

Also I would (if I were you) keep an eye on the second-hand list of www.gandolficameras.com ...

[esbtse]

With the exception of the "generally unobtainable" Carbon Infinity, all the cameras mentioned show up on ebay at least every once in a while. Keep an eye on tradera.se too - but I suspect you know about that already? :)

There's a little problem here in that much of the advice you've been given is perfectly good, if you happen to live in the USA. Add postage and customs, and suddenly it isn't such a good deal after all! So trying to find what you want in Germany (ebay.de) or the UK (ebay.co.uk) might be worth your while.

Also I would (if I were you) keep an eye on the second-hand list of www.gandolficameras.com ...

Thank you for the good advices.

[Ralph Barker]

One thing to consider is the potential for at least partial compatibility with your monorail, so you can standardize on a single lens board size that will work, or is adaptable to both. For example, I use Toyo monorails (4x5 and 8x10) in the studio (or close to the vehicle) and a Toyo field camera, which lets me use the Toyo 110mm boards for most lenses. I made my own adapter for my Tachihara 8x10 field camera.

Another less obvious consideration is interchangeable bellows. Being able to substitute a bag bellows adds a lot of flexibility to the field camera. (My 4x5 Toyo field doesn't have this feature, unfortunately.)

Ultimately, as Ole mentions, it's often a compromise between what you'd really like to have and what's available at a reasonable price in your general area.

[Rider]

Thomas,

Since "they'll all sing the praises of their own favorites", I feel free to mention my own recommendations:

At present I use a Gandolfi Traditional 5x7"; the same in 8x10"; a Carbon Infinity 4x5" and a 4x5" Speed Graphic...

The CI is perfect for me, but it's generally unobtainable. The SG has the advantage of a focal plane shutter, which lets me use just about any lens ever made - with or without shutter.

But if I had to choose only one camera, it would be the 5x7" Gandolfi, with a 4x5" back. That one camera has sufficient movements, exellent stability, and handles both short and long lenses with equal ease. It also weighs quite a bit less than the CI, and has the added advantage that it can use both 4x5" and 5x7" backs.


(1) what lensboards do you use for the speed graphic, and

(2) what is a gandolfi, anyway?

[Dave Parker]

I always find these type of questions, kind of funny.

I think instead of "What is the best" it should be "Is there a best"

After many years of shooting, I can tell, no one camera fits all the requirements that can crop up.

That, said, you have received some good recommendations.

Dave

[Brian Ellis]

Since weight seems to be one of your main concerns you might consider a Tachihara, it weighs just a little over 4 lbs, a couple lbs less than most of the other cameras mentioned here. It's well built, sturdy, and will easily handle the lenses you mention except that a 450mm telephoto might be a stretch. I used a 400mm telephoto on mine and it was fine, a 450mm might be a little too long for the 13 inch bellows but if you really wanted to use a lens that long one of the "top hat" lens board extenders from Wista or Ebony probably would work. You don't need every movement in the book for landscape but the Tachihara has front rise, fall, tilt, and swing, rear tilt and swing, which I found adequate for almost all photographic purposes but especially landscape. All in all a very nice camera for relatively little money ($595 new in the U.S., you can usually find one or two on ebay for about $500 in excellent condition, there's one on there now).

[dpetersen]

There is no perfect camera, every example will fall short in one or more areas.
Do not be overly concerned about getting a camera with loads of movements. I use back tilt a lot, lens tilt some, and front standard rise some. Each movement is IMHO best used in moderation and nowhere near the bellows twisting configurations that the manufacturers are so eager to show.

DP

[Thomas Greutmann]

I would very much agree that there is no perfect camera. Nevertheless, there are two cameras I can recommend:
- Wista DX / DXII / DXIII, a wood field camera, lightweight and - in my opinion - very user friendly, with a lot of movements. Standard Linhof lensboards, easy to find these. I have used the Wista with lenses from 65mm to 270mm, the long lens you mention may be difficult to use, possibly with a lens board extender that was already mentioned.
- An unusual one (call it a well-kept secret): a old model Toyo called 4 3/4 x 6 1/2. Despite the strange format they usually come with 4x5 backs. It is an all metal, robust yet very lightweight field camera. And it can handle long lenses, bellows are very long. I have used it with a Tele Xenar 360, still a lot of bellows to go. You can also push back the rear to further extend the bellows. They use speed graphic lensboards. This camera was built in the 70s, they show up on e+++ every couple of weeks for very reasonable prices.

Both cameras are good choices in the field, fairly lightweight, I think the Wista is a bit better suited for shorter lenses (more user friendly), the Toyo of course for longer lenses (so much for the perfect camera)

Thomas

[Baxter Bradford]

I think you might like to query the need for a 400/500mm lens in the landscape. In my experience I seldom use a 300mm (guess 5% of images) and can think of only 2 occasions in 6 yrs when I wanted something like a 500mm. Solution was to crop from 300mm image.

Lenses of this length bring difficulties in terms of rigidity, sail area of bellows in windy conditions as well as limiting the cameras available with this amount of bellows draw (adding to weight of camera too).

[Utomo Tjipto]

Hi,

Just to chime in. Myself is using Wista VX. Its a metal field and very solid. In addition, it has many movements. The back standard can tilts forward and backward (base tilt), and Swing. The front standard can tilt on its axis, swing, and shift.

In short, its a very versatile machine. the downside is a bit weight, circa 2.5 kg.

Wista also has 12" of bed. Thus, it depends on the lenses that you are using.

Cheers,
Utomo

[Ole Tjugen]

(1) what lensboards do you use for the speed graphic, and

(2) what is a gandolfi, anyway?

The Speed graphic takes flat 4x4" lens boards of wood, aluminium or whatever. Most of the time I use an aluminium one that I've equipped with a small iris universal lens mount, so that I can use my nice old barrel lenses.

A Gandolfi is a camera made by the oldest existing camera maker - they've been in business since 1885, and still make cameras.

[Anthony Lewis]

The Toho FC45X

[esbtse]

4952
I think you might like to query the need for a 400/500mm lens in the landscape. In my experience I seldom use a 300mm (guess 5% of images) and can think of only 2 occasions in 6 yrs when I wanted something like a 500mm. Solution was to crop from 300mm image.

Lenses of this length bring difficulties in terms of rigidity, sail area of bellows in windy conditions as well as limiting the cameras available with this amount of bellows draw (adding to weight of camera too).
Thank you for the advice. When I am on a long mountain trekking I usually takes my 35mm Nikon FE and two lenses, 20mm/4 and a 105/2.5 mm, I often use a converter of 1.4. It translates for a 4*5” to 315 – 441 mm. On shorter treks I usually use 85PC/2.8 and a 1.4 converter and that translates to 255 – 357mm and a use the Nikon F4E and F3HP. I already have a 240mm so the next step is 360-450mm. And because I’m on a limited budget I need to be sure that the lens I going to get fit a field camera. Before I get one I need to experiment more on the View camera but I must be prepared if I find a lense second hand. Is it better to go for a Fuji 400T instead of a Nikon 450,,?
In the picture I used a 85mm/2.8 PC + 1.4 Converter.

[Ole Tjugen]

How about a 355mm f:9 G-Claron?

Most of the time, that's the longest lens I use on all formats from 9x12cm all the way to 24x30cm.

If i ever need more than that I have 240, 300 and 360mm convertible Symmar's...

[esbtse]

How about a 355mm f:9 G-Claron?

Most of the time, that's the longest lens I use on all formats from 9x12cm all the way to 24x30cm.

If i ever need more than that I have 240, 300 and 360mm convertible Symmar's...

I not familiar whith that lens is optimized for 1:1 or at a greater distance?

[Ole Tjugen]

The G-Claron is optimised for 1:1, recommended for 1:5 to 5:1, and very commonly used at infinity.

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/pdf/gcn_82.pdf

There is a little bit of distortion - up to 0.4% in the corners - when used at infinity. That shouldn't be a problem on 4x5", and I haven't noticed it on 8x10".

[esbtse]

The G-Claron is optimised for 1:1, recommended for 1:5 to 5:1, and very commonly used at infinity.

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/pdf/gcn_82.pdf

There is a little bit of distortion - up to 0.4% in the corners - when used at infinity. That shouldn't be a problem on 4x5", and I haven't noticed it on 8x10".

I think the lens would work for my needs.

[Scott Davis]

The 355 G-Claron, even though it is only an f9 maximum aperture, still requires a Copal 3 shutter. It's a big lens. I'd look into something like a Nikkor 360 Telephoto, or even an Osaka 400 Telephoto. They're both f8 lenses, so a tad faster, and they'll be more compact for travel. It will also be helpful if you're using a compact field camera, as they rarely have as beefy a front standard as a studio camera.

[scrichton]

hmm leave the field camera and get a nice lightweight backpackable monorail... as it happens I have a nice sinar F1 for sale :D he he he...

Field camera wise. bang for buck look for an old MPP from the UK. Linhof copies that with the rangefinder removed will fit with 2 lenses on boards into a lowepro slingshot. amazing cameras. Oh and they will focus a 320mm lens.

[Rob_5419]

I would very much agree that there is no perfect camera. Nevertheless, there are two cameras I can recommend:
- Wista DX / DXII / DXIII, a wood field camera, lightweight and - in my opinion - very user friendly, with a lot of movements. Standard Linhof lensboards, easy to find these.


Well said Thomas. Do check out the Wista - it's a real quality 4x5" field camera. It does have field camera limitations - like the wheelnuts unscrewing off without stops like others. The DX doesn't have an interchangeable bellows so if you want to get a Schneider Super Angulon 90mm XL lens on, it won't happen unless you go for a Wista SW. The cheaper Shen Haos TZ series are respectable, as are the Tachiharas (not bad). If you are in this for the love or own a Leica, then for a similar fondling experience, go for an Ebony SV or a Master Technika - both of which give an unparalleled range of movements for a light field camera. For an in between compromise, look up the Walker Titan Wide 4x5 Field Camera. Its price banding is just right and it has a huge range of movements for a field camera.

Out of the pack, I choose Wista - having used their DX, SW and 8x10". Their quality is just superb and it's designed for working photographers rather than the jeweller type. Having said that, I'd rather take out my Sinar monorail. 20 years ago, a monorail was serious stuff which photographers had no issues carrying around. The market for monorails has contracted, but the quality is just there. If you want full movements for every kind of visual expression, nothing beats a lightweight monorail...



- An unusual one (call it a well-kept secret): a old model Toyo called 4 3/4 x 6 1/2. Despite the strange format they usually come with 4x5 backs.

Not so well said Thomas! That Toyo is called a 'half-plate' format. Nothing strange ;)

[Armin Seeholzer]

I recomand the little Horseman HF or FA small light and a Rollfilmback so you can use the 300mm APO Ronar as longest lens which is long enough with MF! And for the wider parts you can use the 4x5 holders.
Every camera is a compromise some are much better then others, for some kind of shooting, Armin

[Gene McCluney]

- An unusual one (call it a well-kept secret): a old model Toyo called 4 3/4 x 6 1/2. Despite the strange format they usually come with 4x5 backs. It is an all metal, robust yet very lightweight field camera. And it can handle long lenses, bellows are very long. I have used it with a Tele Xenar 360, still a lot of bellows to go. You can also push back the rear to further extend the bellows. They use speed graphic lensboards. This camera was built in the 70s, they show up on e+++ every couple of weeks for very reasonable prices.

Thomas

I use one of these on which I have made a 5x7 back adapted from an old wooden field camera. They are indeed very versatile, and since I also shoot a 4x5 SuperGraphic, I have a comprehensive set of many lenses mounted on Graphic lensboards that fit both cameras. Toyo actually made a 5x7 back for this camera but they are rare. On the Toyo I have no problem using up to a 300mm lens for my outdoor work. I also have the 4x5 rotating back for the Toyo.

[esbtse]

Thank you for all the advices. I'm totally confused. This was harder than I thought. I'm more of a long lens operator than a wide angle one. I’m using 17-35/2.8 for 35mm allot nowadays but as an exercise demanded by one of my teacher Terje Hellsesoe. Otherwise I prefer a longer lens than the normal. But I’m like to get more deep in my photos and that suggest that I must use a wide angle lens on LF also .

[Nick_3536]

I'm more of a long lens operator than a wide angle one. I’m using 17-35/2.8 for 35mm allot nowadays but as an exercise demanded by one of my teacher Terje Hellsesoe. Otherwise I prefer a longer lens than the normal. But I’m like to get more deep in my photos and that suggest that I must use a wide angle lens on LF also .

If you're more of a longer lens with some mild lens use consider a 5x7 camera with a 4x5 reducing back. You'll have plenty of bellows for the longer lenses. Most can handle the average wide 4x5 lens.

Plus you can switch formats and get double duty out of the camera and lenses.

[esbtse]

If you're more of a longer lens with some mild lens use consider a 5x7 camera with a 4x5 reducing back. You'll have plenty of bellows for the longer lenses. Most can handle the average wide 4x5 lens.

Plus you can switch formats and get double duty out of the camera and lenses.

What is the shortest wide angle I can use?

I now have an upper lengh of tele of 360-400T or long lens of 355mm. What is the lower lengh that I can use? I have a bigg 90 mm/4.5 and I often use the 28 mm in 35-format. That gives about 75-80 mm in 4*5 format.

[Nick_3536]

What is the shortest wide angle I can use?



That would depend on the camera. If you want a flat or recessed board. Bag bellows. FWIW my 5x7 can easily handle 90mm with a flat board. Wider then that and you'd want a recessed board. But it varies alot with the camera.

[Gordon Moat]

Hello Thomas,

Like you, I have a preference for some telephoto lenses in 35mm, like the 105mm f2.5 AIS, and 85mm f2.0 AI, and sometimes a 180mm f2.8. I had a similar feeling that I would need super long lenses, or matching lenses, for shooting 4x5. Somewhat by chance, I ended up with a Zeiss 21cm f4.5, which I compared to the 135mm f5.6 I mostly use in 4x5. Thinking I would like the view more with the longer lens, I tried some coastal shots on the 21cm. What I found was that I really wanted something shorter, but not as short (wide) as my 135mm. I ended up with a 180mm f5.6.

So what you might think you want in 4x5, like lenses beyond 300mm, might change when you put them to use. After using the 180mm for a few months, I cannot see a reason to use a longer lens. However, if I really need that longer lens feel to an image, I can simply put a rollfilm back on my 4x5. That rollfilm back crops the 4x5 image to just less than half (56mm by 72mm), making that 180mm seem like a longer lens, and giving a tighter view.

I think a real reason behind getting a much longer than 300mm lens on a 4x5 would be because what you want to photograph is too far to walk closer. Besides camera and weight issues of longer focal lengths, the appearance of the final images can be quite different than when photographing the same scene with a shorter focal length. As you get closer or further from your subject/scene, the relationship of foreground and background will change. If you keep left and right, and top to bottom, framed the same for a shorter lens and a longer lens, that requires to change camera to subject distance.

On smaller 35mm cameras, telephoto lenses are useful for isolating details. Due to the smaller film and less potential for really large prints, isolating elements in a scene can be useful. I don't find the approach with 4x5 to by the same, though if you only looked at the math, it might seem to indicate a similar approach. I think 4x5 is more immersive; the results draw the viewer into the overall scene more than with 35mm.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[esbtse]

Hello Thomas,

Like you, I have a preference for some telephoto lenses in 35mm, like the 105mm f2.5 AIS, and 85mm f2.0 AI, and sometimes a 180mm f2.8. I had a similar feeling that I would need super long lenses, or matching lenses, for shooting 4x5. Somewhat by chance, I ended up with a Zeiss 21cm f4.5, which I compared to the 135mm f5.6 I mostly use in 4x5. Thinking I would like the view more with the longer lens, I tried some coastal shots on the 21cm. What I found was that I really wanted something shorter, but not as short (wide) as my 135mm. I ended up with a 180mm f5.6.

So what you might think you want in 4x5, like lenses beyond 300mm, might change when you put them to use. After using the 180mm for a few months, I cannot see a reason to use a longer lens. However, if I really need that longer lens feel to an image, I can simply put a rollfilm back on my 4x5. That rollfilm back crops the 4x5 image to just less than half (56mm by 72mm), making that 180mm seem like a longer lens, and giving a tighter view.

I think a real reason behind getting a much longer than 300mm lens on a 4x5 would be because what you want to photograph is too far to walk closer. Besides camera and weight issues of longer focal lengths, the appearance of the final images can be quite different than when photographing the same scene with a shorter focal length. As you get closer or further from your subject/scene, the relationship of foreground and background will change. If you keep left and right, and top to bottom, framed the same for a shorter lens and a longer lens, that requires to change camera to subject distance.

On smaller 35mm cameras, telephoto lenses are useful for isolating details. Due to the smaller film and less potential for really large prints, isolating elements in a scene can be useful. I don't find the approach with 4x5 to by the same, though if you only looked at the math, it might seem to indicate a similar approach. I think 4x5 is more immersive; the results draw the viewer into the overall scene more than with 35mm.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)
I guess you have a 210mm?
That is a lot of good points. (can you said that in English?). I live in a country that have allot of lakes and streams, if you look at a map you se that Scandinavia is about the same latitude as Alaska. So you can not always come close to the object. I knew that I lack experience with the LF and I working on to start using the camera. But If I can get a bargain on a good lens I must catch the moment. And I’m a equipment junkie!

[esbtse]

That would depend on the camera. If you want a flat or recessed board. Bag bellows. FWIW my 5x7 can easily handle 90mm with a flat board. Wider then that and you'd want a recessed board. But it varies alot with the camera.

As I understand it there are two types of board a extender for longer lenses and a recessed bord for shorter lenses. If I start using a flatt board and I need to change bord for the lens which is the best solution?

[Ole Tjugen]

Thomas, I know what you mean. Where I live it's even more difficult to get closer!

but what happened with me was that instead of using long lenses, I find myself using wider and wider lenses! On 5x7" my most used lenses are 90, 120, 240 and 355mm; on 4x5" it's 65, 90, 120 and 355; 8x10" gets 121, 165, 210 and the 355 again.

Note that it's mostly very-wide, wide, wide-ish and long, and that I haven't (yet) used a really long lens on 8x10". I use "ridiculously wide" lenses on all formats...

[Ole Tjugen]

As I understand it there are two types of board a extender for longer lenses and a recessed bord for shorter lenses. If I start using a flatt board and I need to change bord for the lens which is the best solution?

It still depends on the camera you get. One of my 5x7's can use 80mm on flat boards, the other one can use 35mm on flat boards. One extends enough to use a 500mm on a flat board, the other 650mm (non-tele).

[esbtse]

It still depends on the camera you get. One of my 5x7's can use 80mm on flat boards, the other one can use 35mm on flat boards. One extends enough to use a 500mm on a flat board, the other 650mm (non-tele).

Thanks. I think I’m going to get a 5*7" field if my View camera is to heavy and I start looking for a 355mm lens. As soon as the workshop in august is finished I start using the LF. I have 10 pictures to take before the workshop starts.

[audioexcels]

I use a Toho FC-45X (http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm) for hiking. Excellent camera, it might be the lightest field 5x4 camera made. Works well with my 80mm SS-XL, and will handle the 450mm lenses with a top hat lens board.

Of course, there are many choices, so YMMV.

I think the Nagaoka weighs just over 2lbs...something like 1.1kg.

I'd recommend the Toho also since the weight is negligable to the Nagaoka and the movements, potential, etc. is really phenomenal with the Toho.

[butterfly]

Ebony 45SU. I have one, and in my humble opinion, is the best. Has all the movements you need, beautifully built, and best of all, it is a non-folding design so you can set up extremely quickly. Can't think of any negative points on it, having used it for over a year.

Regards

Steve

[esbtse]

Ebony 45SU. I have one, and in my humble opinion, is the best. Has all the movements you need, beautifully built, and best of all, it is a non-folding design so you can set up extremely quickly. Can't think of any negative points on it, having used it for over a year.

Regards

Steve

Is on the secound hand market alot?

[ljb0904]

Tachihara, when you break it, you can still afford a new one :-) And if you're packing you're camera into the field, something will happen.

I used 75 - 400T on my tachihara. Mine came in at 3.8 lbs. I use the 75mm on a recessed board and everything else on flat boards.

[Sheldon N]

Is on the secound hand market alot?

Send a PM to Jack Flesher. He has one for sale....

[Gary J. McCutcheon]

I'm a little late on this thread, but here goes: Take a look at the Wisner Technical Field or the Zone VI (Wisner style with 19inch bellows). There are used ones on e-bay right now and Midwest Photo Exchange and KEH, both have used models. Neither camera is now in production, but used accessories are available and Richard Ritter can make parts, repair, and/or fit just about anything to them. They are a great buy at about 2/3rds the price of new. They really are good cameras and will handle the focal lengths you need. I use 65mm to 400mm on my Wisner Tech. Field and have had no trouble with it for 10 years now. I also use a Technika which is extremely sturdy, but doesn't have the versitility of the Wisner.

[John Kasaian]

The Speed graphic takes flat 4x4" lens boards of wood, aluminium or whatever. Most of the time I use an aluminium one that I've equipped with a small iris universal lens mount, so that I can use my nice old barrel lenses.

A Gandolfi is a camera made by the oldest existing camera maker - they've been in business since 1885, and still make cameras.

Ole,
There is a difference between Speed Graphic lensboards:) . My Anniversary and my pre-Anny take the 4x4 flat wooden(I suppose it dosen't matter what its made out of as long as it fits) "C" board, while my "Pacemaker" series (Speed and Crown models) take a pressed aluminium board with radiused corners. The "Super" Speeds might take even a different board---check www.graflex.org for details.