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Los
29-Jul-2007, 09:57
i like the angle of view i'm getting with my 135, but i would like a much larger image circle. i have two questions. first, will i need a center spot filter for this focal length lens? and, i've seen some good used 120's online, but i'm not sure about their age and coatings. i like the somewhat snappy images i'm getting with my multicoated 135. will a single coated 120mm give me less contrast and resolution? at this point, i don't think i'm willing to trade image circle for sharpness. also, i'd have to sell the 135 to finance the 120, so trying out the 120 to see if i like it won't work.

Nick_3536
29-Jul-2007, 10:19
The Nikon 120mm can be fairly new. They were made up to the point Nikon quit the LF market. It covers 8x10 so no need for a filter.

Brian Ellis
29-Jul-2007, 11:54
You shouldn't need a center filter for a 120mm lens on 4x5. I've used lenses as short as 80mm and found no need for a center filter. That might be pushing it, especially with slide film, but I can't imagine 120 would require a center filter.

I've used single coated lenses and haven't noticed any significant difference between them and multi-coated lenses. The accepted wisdom seems to be that the only difference comes in a situation where flare is a potential major problem and then you can solve the problem with a good lens shade. I'm not a lens expert but AFAIK coating has no effect on "sharpness" as such, only in contrast and then just because flare reduces contrast, not because you necessarily see less contrast with every photograph you make.

Warren Clark
29-Jul-2007, 12:35
Hi Los,

I use two 120 lenses for 4x5:

120 Apo Symmar Schneider
120 Super Symmar HM Schneider

The Apo Symmar is very light and compact. I've never needed a center
filter. These are both MC but I have other single coated lenses that
give outstanding performance, e.g. older Fuji, Artars, etc.

Good shooting,
Warren Clark

Los
29-Jul-2007, 12:52
thank you for the replies. i feel better about moving forward on this now.

Toyon
29-Jul-2007, 13:01
Probably the best 120 lens is the 110 Super Symmar. But you can also get results from a 120 Dagor. Even uncoated, there is virtually no tendency to flare.

Ole Tjugen
30-Jul-2007, 02:26
So far I've used:

120/6.8 Angulon
120/9 Meyer Weitwinkel-Aristostigmat
121/8 Super Angulon

And they're all good and capable of excellent results. The Meyer is uncoated. the two others single coated.

neil poulsen
30-Jul-2007, 02:53
I have the 121mm Super Angulon and have always like it. The 120mm S.A. is multi-coated, though. Perhaps you might prefer the multi-coated version.

A Nikon or Rodentock might be even snappier. Haven't tried them, though I've heard the Nikons and Rodenstocks have a little more contrast than Schneider. But, all three brands are good.

There's also a 125mm Super Wide Fuji that's a little closer to your focal preferred focal length.

Los
31-Jul-2007, 18:29
neil,

do you know the size of the image circle for the fuji 125?

Sheldon N
31-Jul-2007, 19:51
The Fuji SW image circle is spec'd at 280mm.

Don Hutton is selling a really nice 120mm Super Symmar HM on the For Sale forum here, image circle of 211mm, and much smaller 67mm filters. That might not be a bad choice if you don't need huge coverage.

David Karp
31-Jul-2007, 20:04
If you don't need a huge image circle, and would like a smaller lens, consider a Fujinon W 125mm f/5.6. The version I have, with EBC mulitcoating has a 198mm image circle and takes 52mm filters. It is one of my favorites.

Los
31-Jul-2007, 22:39
sheldon,

i need huge coverage. my fuji 135 is listed as having a 208mm image circle, and it's not enough because i use large movements at near wide open on the stop for selective focus compositions. 280mm+ image circle would be right up my alley.

kevin kelly
1-Aug-2007, 10:30
The super angulon 120 f8 has 280'ish mm at f22. It weighs 0.7 kg, so its a fairly bulky lens.

Bob Salomon
1-Aug-2007, 10:42
The 115mm 6.8 Grandagon and the Grandagon-N versions cover a 291mm circle at f22. If you do a lot of movements then you might need the center filter. If your camera does base tilts then you might need the center filter. If you don't do extreme movements then you may not need a center filter, if your camera has optical axis movements then you might not need the center filter. If you do not stop down at least 2 stops a center filter would not work. You might like the fall off in the scene and decide that you don't need a center filter. If you are doing interior shots you can overlight the edges and elin=minate the need for a center filter. If you have trees and forest at the edges of an outdoor scene you probably would not need a center filter.

In short, there is no one answer to the center filter question. Just go and shoot with the lens and see if for what you shoot, when you shoot and how you shoot you need it or not.

The 115 would not be trading coverage for sharpness. It is a wide coverage, sharp lens. But large.

Uusilehto
2-Aug-2007, 08:55
I love my 120/8 Super-Angulon on 4x5". It's a nice general wide-angle with lots and lots of room for movements. Always in the backpack.

Andrew O'Neill
2-Aug-2007, 09:04
I have a Nikkor 120 SW and use if for both 4x5 and 8x10. A centre filter is not necessary for 4x5 but is for 8x10.

Jack Brauer
2-Aug-2007, 09:10
For what it's worth... I made the switch from 135 to 120 and am happy I did so, the extra space makes all the difference. I bought a Schneider 120mm APO-L - it's my favorites lens now... very sharp (and light).

paulr
2-Aug-2007, 09:43
Among modern ones, a multicoated 120 super angulon gives excellent image quality and can be found for not too much money. Drawbacks are size, weight, and speed. I've had one for years and love it. My only complaint is that it was hard to use when I was taking night pictures.

A 110 super symmar xl is faster, smaller, lighter and has better image quality at wide apertures and large magnifications, but is a hair less sharp at infinity and normal apertures. I doubt you'll find any bargains, since it's a current model and everyone loves it.

The 120 super symmar hm is probably the sharpest lens ever made in the focal length. It's also big, and offers much less coverage than the other two. If you don't need much in the way of movements, it would be an interesting choice.

Mark Stahlke
2-Aug-2007, 10:45
I wonder why nobody has mentioned the 115/6.8 Grandagon in this thread. That's a lens I don't seem to hear much about. Is there a reason for that?

Cheers,
Mark

paulr
2-Aug-2007, 11:04
I wonder why nobody has mentioned the 115/6.8 Grandagon in this thread. That's a lens I don't seem to hear much about. Is there a reason for that?

I haven't used it but it looks like a good lens ... very similar to the 120 super angulon. Big and fat. It's slightly faster. On paper it's a bit better at wide apertures and high magnifications, a bit worse at infinity and f22. Splitting hairs, but that's what we do when we compare lenses.

Ole Tjugen
2-Aug-2007, 11:42
So far I've used:

120/6.8 Angulon
120/9 Meyer Weitwinkel-Aristostigmat
121/8 Super Angulon

And they're all good and capable of excellent results. The Meyer is uncoated. the two others single coated.

And also the 121/6.3 Leitmeyr Weitwinkel-Anastigmat, 120 ED Macro Nikkor, 120/4.5 Heliar, and various 120'ish Aplanats and casket set combinations...

Unless I really really need 300mm image circle (121 SA), I use the angulon most.

Bob Salomon
2-Aug-2007, 12:59
I haven't used it but it looks like a good lens ... very similar to the 120 super angulon. Big and fat. It's slightly faster. On paper it's a bit better at wide apertures and high magnifications, a bit worse at infinity and f22. Splitting hairs, but that's what we do when we compare lenses.

On what paper and which 115mm? The Grandagon or the Grandagon-N and compared to what?

paulr
2-Aug-2007, 13:31
Grandagon-N, compared to 120 super angulon, Rodenstock's MTF info and Schneider's.

Bob Salomon
2-Aug-2007, 14:02
Grandagon-N, compared to 120 super angulon, Rodenstock's MTF info and Schneider's.

I have the MTF curves as well as Distortion, relative light fall-off and longitudinal color aberration curves for the 115 Grandagon N but can't seem to find any of that for the 120mm Super Angulon. Where did you find the curves that you have?

paulr
2-Aug-2007, 16:43
I got them from Schneider years ago on paper. They were available as PDFs on the Schneider site until recently, but I don't see them now.