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Scott --
26-Jul-2007, 05:01
Ok, rank noob question: I'm looking at a camera, and it has what's been described to me as a "tabbed" back. I'm at a loss - how's this kind of back work? I can't see how a holder goes under the ground glass... :o

Thanks for not laughing.
Scott

Nick_3536
26-Jul-2007, 05:04
I think you swing it up on the hinges near the top. OTOH that isn't for normal film holders is it?

Rob_5419
26-Jul-2007, 05:15
Thanks for not laughing.

No problem :D

It's a plate camera which uses bookform plate holders, like the ones in the link below. 'Tabbed backs' are a vulgar description for the elegance of the traditional mahogany bookform plate holders, which were popular at the turn of the century and particularly with plate cameras of various sizes. It's a great way to get into LF photography, and an even better way to discover the beauty of a plate camera. There is a clasp which unhinges a free side of the ground glass frame, which enables it to be swung out, as a bookform holder is inserted in through the interior grooves, and locked in place.

Scott --
26-Jul-2007, 05:27
So, let me make sure I understand: This is a plate camera, for shooting glass plates, using a bookform holder, right? I'm interested in converting it to 5x12 film duty: How reasonable/obscene would it be to do that?

Rob_5419
26-Jul-2007, 05:58
It doesn't really matter: with bookform holders, you can shoot film and glassplates.

How do you propose to cover the camera to 5x12?


I'm not sure where you'd start with this. Oh I know.

Firstly does the long axis of the ground glass cover 12 inches?

Scott --
26-Jul-2007, 06:04
The ground glass on this thing is 6.5x12. In theory, a 5x12 back should be an easy thing. Just would require building a spring back of some sort.

Problem with the plate holders would be finding them for this. It's an odd size. 'Leasthows, it is to me. :D

Ash
26-Jul-2007, 06:05
Scott, if the back is the right size for you, simply make a notch for the film-holder on one side and replace the hinges for a sheet-metal spring, so it acts like a spring back.

That camera is like the Perken Son & Rayment 10x8 on the shelf downstairs. You un-latch the bottom, swing it up and then slide in a holder that locks into place by grooves on the camera/holder.

Nightmare. Get your hand-tools and make yourself a nice spring back already! :)

Scott --
26-Jul-2007, 06:14
Ok, Ash, since I'm out of my league with this'n (read: Have never seen one of these operate :rolleyes:), it should be doable to retrofit a spring back into the space vacated by the bookform back, right?

Rob_5419
26-Jul-2007, 06:19
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The ground glass on this thing is 6.5x12. In theory, a 5x12 back should be an easy thing. Just would require building a spring back of some sort.

Errr...no! Since you no longer have the original bookform plate holder, which exposes the image on the plate/film at the same distance from the lens as the groundglass, you might as well remake a back for the camera if you cannot find this unusual plate size.

It was probably a small batch of custom made sizes for landscape orientation and may not accept orientating the groundglass 90 degrees.

I cut myself tightening the allen bolt of my Gitzo tripod the other day so I'm probably not the right person to ask how to make a spring back for this camera.....it'd be way beyond my field of hope that I would ever get something like this off the ground.

Good luck.

Ash
26-Jul-2007, 06:59
Scott, the Perken 8x10 (downstairs not in front of me) doesn't have a rotating back either - the GG relies on being rested atop the camera when the DDS is slotted in.

I can see two options for you....

Mess around for ages and try and remove the whole original back then build a new one to fit, OR just take off the GG bit, and fill in the spare area outside of the 5x12 film plane, then build spring-back grooves for the holder to slot into, and then re-attach and collimate the GG screen using metal springs.


That sounds really confusing. I'm about to try and carry an armchair up the stairs, I'll explain later!

Scott --
26-Jul-2007, 07:06
No, that makes sense, Ash. Remove the hinged back completely and build a 5x12 spring back insert. Which is at least half of what I was planning on doing for a 5x12 extension back for my 5x7.

Now I gotta decide if'n it's worth it... :rolleyes:

Diane Maher
26-Jul-2007, 07:16
Ok, rank noob question: I'm looking at a camera, and it has what's been described to me as a "tabbed" back. I'm at a loss - how's this kind of back work? I can't see how a holder goes under the ground glass... :o

Thanks for not laughing.
Scott

I won't laugh. I have a whole plate camera which has a back like this and actually, I think it's kind of ingenious. However, doing verticals is tricky because there's nothing to hold the gg in place while the holder is in the camera. If you like I can take pictures of the holders and post them here. They are film holders.

Diane

Scott --
26-Jul-2007, 07:27
Thanks, Diane. Problem is, where'm I going to find a 6.5x12 bookform holder?! :eek:

No, this camera is destined to 5x12 service. And maybe WP. Who knows? ;)

Ash
26-Jul-2007, 07:55
Scott, is that whole back removable? Thought about slicing it off and adding typical bracket/brace system (for interchangeable backs) like on most cameras?

Scott --
26-Jul-2007, 08:06
Got a picture with the back off. I think an isert is doable - one with the springs built in. Would require a separate back for WP.

I'm trying to avoid major (permanent) mods to the camera, so I can resell it later if the camera and I don't mesh well. Then, if my backs don't work out, I still have the original camera in good shape.

Ash
26-Jul-2007, 08:12
You see that notch on the top lining? That's where the original plate holder pops in and you slide it across to lock in place.

So long as you make a totally new 5x12 back that locks in like an old plate holder, you should be all good - all you'd have to do is undo the screws on the GG hinge and remove it for safe-keeping! :)


And hey, if it doesn't work out I'm sure I could look after the camera for you to save it from the garbage collectors :D

Ash
26-Jul-2007, 08:37
Looking at the pics again, are you sure your back piece isn't removable?? The bottom braces look similar to on all my rotating back cameras...


Anyway, Scott I really hope these pics help, otherwise just disregard all my rambling :)

This is the Perken in action! ((turns out the back on the camera IS square, the back rotates and is removable))

The back, http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00608.jpg

The open back, http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00609.jpg

The groove system (in case yours is different), http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00610.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00615.jpg

The holder's notch-shape about to slot in,
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00611.jpg

The bottom locking mechanism,
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00614.jpg


And here's my ludicrous doodle for how to build your back to slot in... not to scale of course :)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/DSC00617.jpg

I bet you were thinking the same all along, but this way you need only undo the hinge connecting the original GG bit, the --______-- shape of the new back would then slot naturally onto the camera like the old holders would. you can build whatever back you want to on top of that perimeter shape, interchangeable backs will be easy :)

Scott --
26-Jul-2007, 11:05
Ash, the primer's awesome. Fully understand now. That was an ingenious setup. Wish I could (a) find a holder for it, and (b) find film that size. But, I can foresee a nice cherry insert that slides in place, locks with the little switch dohickey at the bottom, and has the GG spring back. I'm on it.

Good Lord - 'cause I have time/money for this! Really, honey, I need this camera! It's a different format!

Ash
26-Jul-2007, 11:14
Scott, glad I could be of some assistance.

If you remove the hinges and build a back to slot in like that, you're causing no irreversible damage to the camera.

Don't forget to keep us posted on your progress with the modification :)

Nick_3536
26-Jul-2007, 11:25
Really, honey, I need this camera! It's a different format!


Reducing backs. The greatest invention ever :p