Howtek 4500 Drum Scanner Advice

[dburdeny]

HI All,
I’m considering the purchase of a used Howtek 4500 drum scanner for use with OSX. The unit comes with Mac software on floppy disks so it’s a safe bet that I will have to pick up some new drivers/software to make it operable. Any suggestions on what software is available and or required to get the scanner running with OSX?

[Antonio Corcuera]

I think Silverfast is the only reasonably priced software that will run your Howtek on OSX. Otherwise you can always find an older Mac with SCSI and OS9.
Good luck!

[Ted Harris]

Silverfast won't even come close to letting you use the full capabilities of the scanner. You can get the fullblown package from Aztrek or get Trident from them ... Trident will get you most of the way there for some 1000 to 1500 less but wills till cost you a grant if memory serves. Beyond that, make sure that the scanner's firmware will allow you to operate with OSX and with machines newer than a G3 ... some machines will not.

[Antonio Corcuera]

Silverfast won't even come close to letting you use the full capabilities of the scanner.

Ted, why is this? Silverfast is powerful enough for flatbeds... maybe it has to do with the fact Silverfast has been developed for CCD's and not PMT technology?

[Bruce Watson]

HI All,
I’m considering the purchase of a used Howtek 4500 drum scanner for use with OSX.

That may be a problem. Call Aztek and ask. The scanner is a 1990s design, well before OSX. Unless Silverfast supports it with OSX. Trident topped out at MacOS 9.x. DPL is windoze only. I think there was a package called Aurora for it, but the name is all I can remember (and that may well be wrong).

[PHALL]

Ted; Please explain? I have heard the exact opposite. That the silverfast is best with the modern OS. I believe the Trident is a pain to work with and the only better driver is AZTEKs digital Photolab.

PHALL



Silverfast won't even come close to letting you use the full capabilities of the scanner. You can get the fullblown package from Aztrek or get Trident from them ... Trident will get you most of the way there for some 1000 to 1500 less but wills till cost you a grant if memory serves. Beyond that, make sure that the scanner's firmware will allow you to operate with OSX and with machines newer than a G3 ... some machines will not.

[Brian K]

HI All,
I’m considering the purchase of a used Howtek 4500 drum scanner for use with OSX. The unit comes with Mac software on floppy disks so it’s a safe bet that I will have to pick up some new drivers/software to make it operable. Any suggestions on what software is available and or required to get the scanner running with OSX?


David
I've done some checking on getting a Howtek 4500 and spoke with Aztec about it, you're going to have a major problem using it on a Mac. First it's a SCSI interface and there is no current reliable card or support for it on OS-X macs. Even if you have software that is Mac compatible, there are no current scsi cards. You will have to run it on a PC, there's no other way. This has been what's been keeping me from getting a drum scanner. Currently I have an Imacon/Hassleblad.

[Ted Harris]

Brian,

Are you sure this is correct? Adaptec has cards that support OSX through 10x3.x and ATTO has cards taht support 10.4.x. I know beause I am running my Cezanne scanner on one. Or, are you saying that none of these cards are supported by the Howtek which I am also not sure is accurate. The 4500 firware, OTOH, may not be capable of addressing any operating sysstem later than 9.x regardless of the SCSI interface. I believe, if there is a problem, the problem will be with the scanner's firmware being able to talk to the OS (and perhaps the computer's firmware ... see my earlier post).

One major point here that the OP may have figured out by now ... when you get into the realm of running some of this hardware you egin to deal with legcacy systems and it is not for the faint of heart.

[dburdeny]

In theory running boot camp with Windows 95 or xp should work – it’s the SCSI interface that concerns me. Perhaps an adapter is enough to complete the chain…seems to easy though. Silverfasts website indicates the 4500 is supported under OSX.x.x, but again we come back to the SCSI issue. Might be time to pull an old Dell out of storage.

[Mike Boden]

I'm running a Howtek 4500 on a Mac G4 w/ OS9.2 and Trident 4 software. It works great!

As far as a SCSI card is concerned, all you need is an Adaptec 2906.

Manufacturer website:
http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/scsi_tech/entry/AVA-2906/

Mac OS9 drivers for 2906:
http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/downloads/macos/macos_8x_and_9x?productId=AVA-2906&dn=Adaptec+SCSI+Card+2906

It appears that these are still available. Look at pricewatch.com for several online retailers:
http://castle.pricewatch.com/s/search.asp?s=adaptec+2906

On another note, the only challenging part for me was finding a ADB-to-USB adapter for the Trident dongle. I ended buying a CompuCable Mini-ADB adapter:
http://www.addlogix.com/mac_products/embed.asp?stuff=se_ip_body.html#ip_7
http://rcsnet.com/www_site/product.cfm?prd=USB-2MD4

Good luck!!!

[Brian K]

I just spoke to a salesperson at Aztek, and told them about the ATTO scsi cards. They never heard of ATTO and were concerned that there would be reliability issues and compatibility problems. I asked them if they would call atto and see if maybe the ATTO cards were sufficiently compatible but the sales person was not interested because they only get about one request for mac usage a year. Given that Aztek is the official support and service for Howtek, and that they have no desire to support their scanners on Mac, I would be hesitant to buy a Howtek if Mac was my only computer choice.

[Gordon Moat]

There is also a Griffin Technologiers iMate, supported up through OS X 10.3.9, which is an ADB to USB adapter. I had to get one for a very old version of QuarkXPress Passport running under Classic. My newer Quark uses a USB hardware key.

Other odd items are the Ratoc FR1SX, which is a FireWire to SCSI converter. Ratoc has not tested many combinations, though it seems LaserSoft Imaging have found it to allow many scanners to function with SilverFast. Unfortunately, with no feedback about this particular Howtek, you would be on your own for testing the combination.

Other oddities of OS 9.2.2 software going to OS X. Quite often a CD installer for the software will not launch at all. However, if you are able to install on an older OS 9 system, you could drag copy the install into Classic mode on a newer OS X system. This was the method I used to allow running LivePicture in Classic on my newer OS X system. It seems to work easier up to 10.3.9, and it seems that 10.4 largely breaks this capability.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[Ted Harris]

Gordon, I would strongly recommend against the Firewire/USB to SCSI adaptors. They work fine to run some software that use keys/dongles but most of the time cause problems with high end devices such as scanners.

Brian, unfortunately that sounds like Aztek. They are not always the easiest or friendliest company to work with. Beyond that I am totally surprised that someone working with SCSI interfaces never heard of ATTO. Did you try to get past sales to talk to a tech support person?

[Michael T. Murphy]

they have no desire to support their scanners on Mac, I would be hesitant to buy a Howtek if Mac was my only computer choice.

If the price were right, it might be worth adding a $300 PC to drive the scanner.

Save to a networked drive and transfer the file to the Mac for editing. Looks like others might be able to get you going on a Mac though.

good luck!

Michael

[deatojef]

I'm running OSX (tiger 10.4.10) with silverfast Ai Studio 6.5.0.r6 with a D4500. Yes, you need some sort of SCSI card to enable connectivity with between the mac and the scanner. For me, it was not really worth spending the $500+ on a PCI-Express SCSI card - I've got a Power PC based desktop machine. Instead I'm using a Firewire-to-SCSI dongle from Ratoc (http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/FR1SX.html), but I think the price of this thing has gone up - I only paid like $50 at the time.

This setup works great despite the annoying reboots required when you first configure the "dongle" using the Ratoc software utility. After that however, you're good for as long as the device is powered on and/or connected. You'll also need the optional AC adapter that supplies TERM power to the SCSI bus.

So my procedure is something like this when I'm going to do some scanning:
1) plug everything in and power on: firewire cables, D4500, Ratoc dongle, etc.
2) start the Ratoc software utility, usually accepting the defaults, reboot the mac...twice...yes it's weird.
3) start silverfast, mount my film on the drum, and start a pre-scan.
4) make any image adjustments, cropping, set image output size (i.e. DPI, etc), and hit "scan".
5) come back in XX number of hours (depending upon how many pieces of film I mounted up), close silverfast, edit images in Photoshop, turn off scanner, unmount film, etc. etc..etc.

There was a recent patch release (6.5.0.r8) to silverfast that is supposed to fix a "banding" issue when using Ai to control a Howtek scanner. I've yet to try this version, but I've also yet to experience this banding issue that others have reported on the Yahoo group: ScanHi-End. One of my complaints about the Silverfast software is the built-in IT8 color calibration stuff. I don't trust it. It seemed that Silverfast wasn't building the most accurate ICC profiles. Consequently I use the Monoco software I have to build the ICC profile based on scans of the (ironically) Silverfast IT8 4x5 target. I would love to get a Hutcheson HCT (http://www.chromix.com/ColorGear/Shop/Productdetail.cxsa?toolid=1007&-session=tx:42F948110c4e708B43YvV1A7E51D) target and use that, but that is currently on my wish list.

My first impression of Silverfast was that some of the GUI interface touchy/feely points were a little "off" and quirky, however, it does work, and will output 1.5GB+, 16-bit (the D4500 is only 12-bit, BTW) scans of 4x5 images without much fussing. I do like the neutral point selection tool that helps with color correction/shifts and the ability to run "batch" scans.

I have had my share of issues with the used D4500 I bought. Mostly around boards not working and the like. I bought a second "parts" unit and that gave me the ability to swap boards around to end up with a working unit. I would advise that if you pick up a used D4500 that is even slightly suspected of not operating at 100%, budget to have it shipped to Aztek for their get-back-to-working-order service (I am forgetting the name of this at the moment).

Using the Howtek/Aztek line of scanners means three choices for software/setup:
1) get an old mac (OS9) and run Trident
2) use OSX/Windows and the firewire dongle I mentioned along with Silverfast
3) use Windows with Digital PhotoLab software from Aztek

I would certainly like to use their DPL software as I've heard it's the best thing since sliced bread, but it costs large $'s (ex. $3000+). Unfortunately that means (for me) using Silverfast and using the firewire-to-scsi dongle for connectivity to the scanner. So when my ship comes in I'll go buy me a new fangled Aztek Premier plus DPL, but until then my current setup will have to do.

Hope this helps,
-Jeff

[bwchrome]

We use HOWTEK scanners. All the HOWTEK line from the 4500 - 8000 work in a similar manner. AZTEK bought HOWTEK to base their newest scanner, one of the only drumscanner companies left BTW, on the HOWTEK design. The same folks who made the TRIDENT softwear also made the newest driver currently sold by AZTEK.

We use the SILVERFAST driver on a PC under WIN2K. the best SCSI card for this machine is the 2930, for the MAC as well in OS9. You will have to go RATOC to use the MAC OS10.

For a dwindling industry, AZTEKs service for this older equipment is top notch. They have given us many free hours of helpful advice. They will also fix these 35K$ machines. You wont see this kind of service with SCREEN or any other drumscanner.

I also find the SILVERFAST software to be superior to the TRIDENT. I have not tried the new AZTEK software.

BTW, we have a TRIDENT 4.0 MAC USB dongle for sale if anyone needs it.

best regards

dw

www.dr5.com
www.filmrecording.net

[sanking]

Brian,

Are you sure this is correct? Adaptec has cards that support OSX through 10x3.x and ATTO has cards taht support 10.4.x.

Maybe, but maybe not. I have a MAC G4 with an Adaptec 2906 SCSI card, with appropriate driver in the extension library, which Adaptec says should work with OS 10.3.x. But my system profiler does not see the SCIS bus, and no SCSI device works on it in OSX.

Sandy King

[bwchrome]

..Adeptec certainly has drivers for SCSI - OS10. Your problem might be running the older software. SILVERFAST will not run this machine without a FIRE converter and they are associated with several operation issues. Your only REAL choice if you have to run MAC is the newer AZTEK scan driver, which is fairly pricey, but worth the money if you are making many scans.

AZTEK is a good company. They bought out HOWTEK and now use the HOWTEK basic design in their current offering. The good thing about this company is it is almost the only drumscanner company left. They will also sell you parts and service the HOWTEK machines. We have found this company to have top notch service. While they wont give the store away, they have given us many free hours of tech support over the phone for our AZTEK/HOWTEK machines.

We run PC and use SILVERFAST. after running a trial of the new AZTEK software, we stayed with the SILVERFAST. We saw no great difference in our scanning. The 2930 scsi card is the best card for this machine, PC or MAC. If you are going to use MAC you will be limited to OS9 using TRIDENT. The PC will run TRIDENT in XP & 2000. I find the TRIDENT much harder to work with and limiting compared to the SILVERFAST.

We have a MAC/TRIDENT dongle we are not using, if anyone needs it. :D

dw





HI All,
I’m considering the purchase of a used Howtek 4500 drum scanner for use with OSX. The unit comes with Mac software on floppy disks so it’s a safe bet that I will have to pick up some new drivers/software to make it operable. Any suggestions on what software is available and or required to get the scanner running with OSX?

[Ted Harris]

Sandy, I'm running a G5 with a 2930N Adaptec Card running 10.3.9 to drive my Screen with no problems.

[sanking]

Sandy, I'm running a G5 with a 2930N Adaptec Card running 10.3.9 to drive my Screen with no problems.


Ted,

And perhaps the 2930N and 2930U cards would work in my MAC G4 in OS 10.3.x.

But my point is that Adaptec says that the 2906 card should work in a G4 running MAC OS 10.3., and it does not work for me. Perhaps for others in the same machine, but not here.


Sandy

[JohnnyV]

Ted,

And perhaps the 2930N and 2930U cards would work in my MAC G4 in OS 10.3.x.

But my point is that Adaptec says that the 2906 card should work in a G4 running MAC OS 10.3., and it does not work for me. Perhaps for others in the same machine, but not here.


Sandy

Sandy did you install Adaptec's driver?

I ask as at one point Apple added native Adaptec drivers to the OS and installing additional Adaptec drivers rendered the card inoperable.

John V. (from the ScanHi-End Yahoo Group)

[JohnnyV]

Running a Howtek, Silverfast on 10.4.X should be no problem. deatojef's above post says it all. Aztek is really out to sell their software so they are going to tell you anything to have you switch to a PC and their $2000.00 software. They are not going to promote Silverfast software.

With that said here's a copy and paste of a previous post of mine...

The only two regularly updated Howtek scan drivers are SilverFast and Aztek’s Digital PhotoLab.

Aztek’s Digital PhotoLab is a Windows only application. It’s the only software that “connects” to the hardware side of the scanner. Meaning it controls the Analog / Digital Converter of the scanner for supposedly smoother tonality and accuracy. I have not used it myself so I couldn’t tell you if it would improve scans or not.

SilverFast has the same interface for all scanners it produces, from Polaroid to Nikon to Howtek. Silverfast updates it software regularly and at about 30% the price of Digital PhotoLab is my choice for Howtek scanner software.

Trident has not been updated in a number of years (four years or so) but works well on Mac OS 9, but buggy on Windows. It needs a dongle to work so be warned if a Trident disk is available it will only run in demo mode...until you buy dongle.

I’ve used both Trident and Silverfast with my Howtek 4000 and I prefer SilverFast as it works with the latest OS. Also SilverFast’s user interface is so much better than Trident’s.

[Ted Harris]

BTW, you do get service that is every bit as good from Screen. I can't speak for any other company but have found that Screen's tech support is excellent. Wait ... I need to add Kodak/Creo to that list.

[Gordon Moat]

Hopefully we might add Fujifilm Electronic Imaging to the list of scanner companies with good service. That division is currently going through a slight re-organization. I don't have much information currently, though I got the feeling that they will be more responsive to repair and service questions, as well as sales and information.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio (http://www.allgstudio.com)

[aaanorton]

It is alive!

Hi. Bringing this thread back from the grave.
I'm looking at an Aztek Premier. This drum scanner is not listed on SilverFast's list of supported scanners. I guess Aztek got wise and prevented other drivers from working. Anyone have any firm info on this issue?
Has anyone run this scanner - or another drum scanner - on Parallels through OS X?

Thanks!

[Lenny Eiger]

It is alive!

Hi. Bringing this thread back from the grave.
I'm looking at an Aztek Premier. This drum scanner is not listed on SilverFast's list of supported scanners. I guess Aztek got wise and prevented other drivers from working. Anyone have any firm info on this issue?
Has anyone run this scanner - or another drum scanner - on Parallels through OS X?

Thanks!

Aztek pulled all the stops in making their premier machine. While the ICG 380 also has a 3 micron engine and that puts it in the same class as a Premier, it is arguably the best scanner ever made in its category. They believe their software is better at getting all the quality out of it than the competitors. The scanner costs about $38K or thereabouts these days. DPL is included in the price. It makes every bit of sense to use the recommended software with a purchase of this type. Furthermore, if your scanner ever has an issue, there is one guy in the world who knows how to fix it, and that's Evan at Aztek. You need to make friends with those folks, to protect your investment, as opposed to suggesting they are somehow being "wise."

Silverfast is not the professional program that Digital PhotoLab is. Can one make a good scan with Silverfast? Sure. But it isn't DPL, which has a lot more features. Silverfast can't make custom profiles for each negative it sees. DPL is pretty amazing.

I haven't run it on paralells, the hardest part is probably the SCSI connection... I like Macs too, but if you are going to spend that kind of money, having a little pc around to drive it shouldn't be an issue.

Lenny

[aaanorton]

Thanks for the quick response!
I can see how my flippant comment could be read as disrespectful, but I did not intend it as such. I have had nothing but excellent and professional communications from Aztek so far. I'm very impressed, just doing due diligence is all.

I have other reasons for wanting to host this on a Mac, so hopefully someone out there will have experience with it through Parallels or VMWare. I'll post to ScanHi-End too.

Thanks again!

[Tyler Boley]

I'm not positive what would make the most sense for you... but, if you want to run DPL a small PC seems a minimal price to pay considering the cost of the entire scanner/software system, and the most straightforward. Why make life difficult?
On a Mac, I run Silverfast, OSX Tiger, G4 w scsi card, to my 4500 with no problems whatsoever.
Tyler

[aaanorton]

No doubt the idea of a small PC running DPL is sound advice. Probably the best way to approach this system, granted.
That said, I'm still interested in hearing from anyone with firsthand experience running -or attempting to run- DPL through Parallels, Fusion or something on a Mac.

Thanks!

[psychospazzgurl]

Wondering if you ever purchased your Howtek 4500. If not I have one for sale, comes with alot of extras too, Let me know if your interested.

Stephanie

[clay harmon]

I am a mac guy, but I have a PC that I have hooked to my HiResolve scanner so I can use DPL. As Lenny says, this software is very good. Very easy to use but still gives you full control over just about every scanning parameter you can imagine.

[dtkky]

Hi all.
I'm looking for a mac dongle for trident to use for my recently acquired howtek d4500. Let me know if you have one to let go.
Thanks
David Tan