Gralab Timers - who uses these?

[Rob_5419]

I've found out that although specified for 120Volts (USA), the Gralab Timers are actually compatible with 240Volts, however under American safety legislation, they have to be stipulated for 120Volts on the packaging (so as not to confuse dumb people).

There's several models of these and I've just realised how neat these really are. For instance, from the 500 series, they have an accuracy around 0.1+secs and have switchable inputs, put foot-switch operation.

I think I can daisy-chain a 500 series to a 600 series Gralab and use this for split grade printing - correct?


Of the two channels, I would then run the first channel (A) to make the base exposure and then the second channel for the contrast grade (B). Since there is a straight forward 3.5mm jack, I would just input the 600 into one of the 3.5mm jacks of the 500 series. Correct?

This looks like such a simple and elegant solution to split-grade printing using a phenomenally cheap digital timer with audio and red dimmable LCD display.

Am I oversimplifying matters, or have I missed a serious drawback about daisy-chaining two Gralabs? I've noticed they sell for less than the price of a decent UV filter second-hand and wondered if I go down this route, would it work, or should I just head towards a proper analyser and exposure meter like the RH Designs options.
The price difference is considerable: both Gralabs would cost less than $100US and the RH Analyser Pro would cost around £250, whereas the ZoneMaster II & F.stop timer option would run into £300.

Any thoughts welcome.

[Nick_3536]

Am I oversimplifying matters, or have I missed a serious drawback about daisy-chaining two Gralabs? .


You're using two timers and you think you're simplifying? :confused: These are just timers. I'm not sure what you are trying to gain from using two of them. Saving resetting the time between grades?

[Rob_5419]

okkkkay....

[Don Wallace]

I don't get it either. Can you explain what it is you are trying to do?

[Rob_5419]

I don't get it either. Can you explain what it is you are trying to do?

Avoid spending £300 on a Zone Master II and F stop timer?


I need a timer with different channels and switchable inputs. At the minute, I have an old-fashioned dial operated analogue Devere type timer.

Since I'm going to start split-grade printing seriously (more than I have been doing on graded papers with a cold cathode head), I need the different channels, without becoming overwhelmed by the amount of information to retain. That's why daisy-chaining two Gralabs seemed sensible - the first timer operates for the base exposure and the second for the contrast printing.

Does that make sense?

[Michael Rosenberg]

Rob,

I am not sure this makes sense. The outlets would turn on and off, erasing any values entered. I have the Gralab 625, and it has all of the above features you mention and two different times can be set. You switch back and forth between the two with a switch. Wouldn't that be easier???

[Rob_5419]

Like this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=110149751753

Can the values not be stored in the Memory switches?

I see what you mean - One Gralab makes more sense than 2 then. I didn't realise they were that advanced. Clearly I need to look at a higher end model then.

Do you use yours for split-grade printing then?

[Oren Grad]

Rob - my GraLab 565 has two manually-selectable memories that you could use in this way. My 900 has seven memories, and I think also allows for programming sequences of steps, though I've never used it that way. But since I guess you have to switch the filters manually anyway, one of the two-memory GraLabs with manual switching may be fine for you.

[Rob_5419]

Thanks Oren,

I must be looking at the base models which don't have such complex functions.

It doesn't help that the Gralab website shows everything non-photography related which renders it difficult to navigate.

I might try The Gralab before the RH Designs option then - just having a memory switch is way more sophisticated than what I'm using at the moment.

[Oren Grad]

The GraLab website isn't a lot of help, unfortunately. Many of the higher-end darkroom-oriented timers have been discontinued and are missing from the site. Taking a quick peek just now, the 451 and 655 among the current models appear to have the dual-memory feature, but you should be able to find one of the discontinued models used for much less.

[Rob_5419]

There doesn't seem to be much in it...505, 545, 555, 605, 655.

There's no logic either! The 605 seems more elementary than the 555.

The rewiring is going to be a headache. I think I'll have to shelve this and think about it more clearly later on the month.....

[Nick_3536]

Is this a production enviroment ? If not you don't need any thing this fancy. At most you'll need a notebook. Or just make notes on the back of the prints.

To be honest I think long term even the notebook will be over kill unless you're trying to make future prints match.

[Donald Qualls]

Hmmm.

My Gralab timer doesn't have a phono jack; nor does it appear to be compatible with 240 V (I'm pretty sure that would do bad things to the simple synchronous clock motor that runs it, not to mention the contacts in the switch that shuts off the load when the timer hits zero). Probably because it's an old electromechanical version...

I have thought about wiring in a foot switch to allow easy burning in, but my timer is riveted together; I'd probably need to put the switch in line with the power cord to the timer (not hard, just haven't gotten to it). And I use my timer for split printing, but I admit it'd be easier with two; looks to me as if I could use two timers in series, putting one in Focus while the other controls the light -- must watch for another similar timer to try this (though I'd also have to come up with a place to put them).

[Oren Grad]

The GraLab footswitch is wonderful. I use it with my 565 for film and paper processing - it's great when my hands are otherwise occupied.

[Rob_5419]

Donald -

I get called a luddite for my non-digital ways. Reading your anecdote about your jackless Gralab makes me think you're something else! ;)

What you're describing vis a vis split printing is exactly what I had in mind. It just confuses me less to see two separate timers and know that one does the exposure, and the other does the contrast printing. They 545 I've been looking at has identical ports as a 605 so I think daisy-chaining them in series is straightforward.

Only think is I'm resolved to get an RH Designs F.Timer :rolleyes:

Oren - I hope the RH Designs has a port for the foot switch timer too. It's just such a lovely way to work. Makes me think of my girl's foot-operated sewing machine.

[Donald Qualls]

Donald -

I get called a luddite for my non-digital ways. Reading your anecdote about your jackless Gralab makes me think you're something else! ;)

The word you're looking for is "broke" -- I paid $35 for my timer, and use it for both enlarging and film development.


What you're describing vis a vis split printing is exactly what I had in mind. It just confuses me less to see two separate timers and know that one does the exposure, and the other does the contrast printing. They 545 I've been looking at has identical ports as a 605 so I think daisy-chaining them in series is straightforward.

I foresee problems doing this with a digital timer -- when the timer closest to the outlet shuts off its output, the second one will lose power for timekeeping and memory functions. The mechanical version I have doesn't care about this -- it'll stay set forever if I set it with the power off, and the Focus/Time switch is a simple, mechanical toggle switch. A digital version will just return to "power on" state when power is restored: everything shut off, timer set at zero.

All I really need is a second Gralab 330 and a simple on-off push-push switch mounted in a box that's convenient for foot operation (and adequately insulated/grounded to be safe in a potential spill location, of course) -- I've seen suitable pedals sold for musicicans, but their price is a little on the high side and they aren't rated for 120 V, not to mention not being insulated or grounded for my application -- probably easy to replace the actual physical switch, though, if I could find an affordable (like free) pedal unit...

[John Berry]

And all this time I've been doing split printing with one old 300 that I modified for a foot switch myself. I feel like an abused red headed step child. I should sue myself.

[Rob_5419]

Thanks Donald -

I've done it this way for years, although now's the time to jump on board split-grade printing with a colour head and compare the difference with graded papers on the cathode.

John - your technique for split grade printing with a 300 is probably just as good and fast as anyone else's using a split-grade analyser/timer. The years of experience you've spent in refining your workflow here won't be wasted. Now when I think about having to read a manual to learn how to understand the new-fangled technology, I'm not sure I'm ever going to get there with this new way of working.

Roll on the suffering - if it ain't broke...?

[Andrew_4548]

So you've got the bits, Rob?

My stuff landed last Monday and slotted straight in where the Analyser was :)

I don't need to do the wiring mods now as this setup turns off the safelight when focusing :)

I haven't had chance to do any printing yet as the darkroom is in "storage / tip" mode and it's a bit warm in there at the moment - I don't have the air handling systems you have...

Andrew

[Rob_5419]

:) Next to perfection. Everything perfectly boxed and a knock on the door by the mailman.

I've just unwrapped it all. At the minute I have about 20 projects going on, on the living room floor, I can't even contemplate wiring it all up yet. Have promised to help proof read a few articles unfortunately, so my time in the darkroom is tied over till next weekend.

In the meantime, I'm going to sip a coffee and try and read the manuals! I should just plug it in the darkroom, but if I do, I'm not going to emerge in daylight till next week.

Btw - got a paper flasher too. If this doesn't turn out any improvement over graded papers and cold cathode, my dichromat colour head is going to take a satellite orbit past Yorkshire...

[Andrew_4548]

It's an idea to at least have a scan through the manuals before you dive in with the screwdriver etc ;)

I've not really done much paper flashing up to now - I was always wary of removing a negative to flash a sheet and then trying to get everything lined up again. Now I've got both lots of gear, I could set up the 6x9 enlarger as a flashing light source but then how do the tones fit in with the ZM scale - I guess you'd need to make a "flashed paper" tonal scale to be ultra-correct... Have you read Les McLean's book on printing as he makes a big thing of flashing (paper ;) )? I can see his point for bringing out fine highlight details.

Once you've got it all wired in, it's possibly better starting gradually to get used to the basics of placing the probe and seeing the resultant tones when it calculates the grade and time. Too close or too far apart for the probe points can give you a contrasty or flat print - it's getting used to the places to pick that took me a bit of time. I can knock out doing test strips but never get a final print at the first attempt.

I've also realised why mine always looked a bit more muddy than I'd like unless they were viewed in a strong light - I was picking the tones on the scale, thinking the print looked a bit light and then adding a fraction more exposure to match the scale. D'Oh, the scale is effectively after dry-down so I should have left the print light and it would come down to that level rather than printing down to the scale and then getting miffed that they'd dried darker... Trust the system - it was me making a tow of it :( It should be easier with the dry-down compensation option built in to the unit :)

Andrew

[Rob_5419]

Hi Andrew,

I'm not good with screwdrivers. Now knobs...I've had a lot of experience with those!

Unfortunately as things progress, my screwdrivers have turned a bit blunt with more likelihood of causing damage. So the screwdriver only comes out for projects which I can actually see I can finish.

Not read Les McLean's book. Frankly, I never expose my negatives that badly that I need to flash in order to pull detail from the highlights! Just kidding. Would be interesting to see what others make of flashing. I'm sure the Americans have more experience here ;)

I have the Advanced Monochrome tome which is fantastic reading. Most of the modern techniques of printing are still beyond me. My darkroom handbook of 'enlarging' is still on my shelf - I think it was published just after the WWII.

It'll be good to see how you progress with yours, although I feel you already have the advantage with the Analyser Pro experience. I'm just still admiring the boxes wondering how Richard makes them so cute!