4x5 developing system

[Chuck P.]

1. I was wandering if anyone has ever developed their 4x5 film as described by Eugene Singer in his article----- "Developing 4x5 Sheet Film: An Alternative Method". This is essentially using the HP Combi-Plan tank (three of them) in a dip and dunk method. I find it pretty interesting but was wandering if others have used it.

2. And, how is the Combi-Plan tank when it is used as intended---as a daylight 4x5 system? The daylight method is especially appealing to me as I don't have a bonified darkroom (I use my kitchen late at night, when all are asleep but me). I like the idea of getting my film developed in a daylight tank, but am unsure about the efficiency of the daylight system with 4x5.

Thanks
Chuck

[davidb]

I am using a jobo 2521 tank to do my film. It is a daylight tank and I use rodinal 1+50 so it's not very bad.

[Ron Marshall]

I have used both the Combi-Plan and the Jobo Expert drums. More care is required when loading the Combi and it requires a larger volume of chemicals, but it does the job. The Jobo is easier to work with; I hand roll it on the $20 Jobo roller base. Jobos are available used for about 60% of their retail price.

[Nick_3536]

For 4x5 I use the larger 2500 tanks [2551 or 2581] on a unicolor motorbase. Tanks used can be fairly cheap. Reels I'd suggest buying new since lots of the older reels are sold on Ebay. With the motorbase plugged into a Gralab 300 all the agitition is automated. I just have to remember to be around when it's time to change the chemicals.

[IanG]

Chuck, like Nick & David & Ron I've been using a Jobo tank for my 5x4 processing. I guess I've been using one for 30+ years now. I've always used inversion agitation but then my tank is a 2000 series.

There's no reason why it couldn't be used on a roller base, in fact I have a 2nd tank (one in europe/one in asia) and the previous owner always used a motor base with it.

If you use a developer like Rodinal or Pyrocat HD a Jobo tank is reasonably economic. Alternately I also use Xtol which I replenish, I was used to using deep tanks, and this is the faster and most econmic way of working.

One benefit of using a daylight tank is flexibility and once loaded you can work anywhere, this can be particularly useful when working away from home, enabling processing as you shoot.

Ian

[Aggie]

I think I've tried just about every method for developing 4x5. The last one just recently has me hooked. At first it was the jobo 2500 series in both hand inversion and the machine. I just wish you could get more film on the reels than just the 6 sheets per. Then I bought my first nikor tank. It had it's little problems of leaving the anti halation layer in little strips on the back of the film. I have three of those tanks now. When I moved I tried the hand shuffle method. that for me was disaster with all sorts of scratches. Next came the combi tank. Well the blonde roots that I have won out on that contraption and it sits in the box on a high up shelf (I hate that one). Recently I was able to use for the first time Guerillmo Kahlo's yankee developing tank. Not the one with the hangers. (don't get me started on hangers and doing it in the dark). I was the first person to use that tank since Frida used it last. Yeah for those who don't know Frida Kahlo also shot film. I was hooked on that tank. It was easy to load, easy to process albeit a bit messy. I've since purchased three of those tanks. Of course I also have access to trading one for the Kahlo tank. That tank if you wear gloves is easy to use. I found that all the big agitation is uneccesary for how I did it. Maybe I'm learning finally the semi stand way. Best part is you can buy them new. They are inexpensive, and built like tanks. This is just my opinion. Yours will vary. It all comes down to what you like.

[Nick_3536]

With a big enough tank and enough reels you can run 24 sheets with the 2500 type tanks. It's a bit of a monster. 18 sheets is much more manageable. At least on a motorbase.

[Brian Schall]

Yes, I have used the 3 Combi tank and it works fine. I load the film in the holder and insert it into a fill tank with developer, put the lid on and agitate in daylight. Pop the top of and dip in the stop, and then into the fixer tank and put the top back on until fixing is over. Works real good with DiXactol where I have to go back to Tank 1 after fixing and a short wash for staining.

I've also used a single Combi Tank as they were designed to be used and, taking your time, the work just fine.

[Peter Lewin]

A couple of comments regarding the number of sheets possible in a CombiTank, and the number of CombiTanks needed. If you cut 4x5 sheets of nylon screening, you can load 12 sheets into the holder, by pairing sheets (emulsion sides out, with the nylon screening inbetween). I used to use two tanks, actually an old Kodak tank and the CombiTank: the Kodak was a pre-soak, the CombiTank was pre-filled with developer, top off. In the dark I would load the holder, place it in the pre-soak, then take it from the pre-soak and put it into the waiting CombiTank. At that point I put the cover on the CombiTank, turned on the light and continued processing. My logic was that the developing step was the critical one, by placing the holder into the pre-filled tank, development started uniformly. I used the CombiTank fill and drain plugs for stop bath and fixer, all in daylight. Seemed to work fine. Ultimately I switched to tray developing in PMK, but the CombiTank system also seemed to work correctly, its more a matter of personal comfort.

[Merg Ross]

Chuck,

Yes, I have tried Eugene's system with the three CombiTanks and it works well. However, I have only used the CombiTanks in total darkness and can not comment on their daylight performance. My preferred method of development is tray, and I don't think my Acetone based formula would be suited for use in the plastic CombiTanks!

[Chuck P.]

Thank you all for your replies, very helpful. I may just have to give the combi-plan daylight system a try.

Chuck

[C. D. Keth]

Chuck,

Yes, I have tried Eugene's system with the three CombiTanks and it works well. However, I have only used the CombiTanks in total darkness and can not comment on their daylight performance. My preferred method of development is tray, and I don't think my Acetone based formula would be suited for use in the plastic CombiTanks!

Acetone doesn't have REALLY adverse effects on film base?

[C. D. Keth]

So, Aggie and IanG, you've used Jobo's 2500 series tanks for inversion agitation with no problems? They tell you on the website it's not suitable for it but if you haven't had problems, that might be the solution to my daylight development problems.

[IanG]

Christopher, I'm using a couple of slightly older 2000 series tanks, they were designed for inversion agitaion, I think Jobo introduced their first rotary processor after I bought my first 5x4 tank.

Of course JOBO want you to use the newer models on their rotary bases, because they were designed to fit them :-)

In reality many of us use the large muti reel Paterson tanks for 120 & 35mm and these are far taller than my Jobo, one holds 4 or 5 120 films, and always gives excellent consistent results.

Ian


So, Aggie and IanG, you've used Jobo's 2500 series tanks for inversion agitation with no problems? They tell you on the website it's not suitable for it but if you haven't had problems, that might be the solution to my daylight development problems.

[Nick_3536]

If you find an older 2500 tank you'll see they had inversion chemistry levels marked on the outside. I think they stopped suggesting it for two reasons. One the large amount of chemicals needed. Two to sell 1500 tanks.

The only difference between the older 2500 tanks and the newer ones are the printing.

[Merg Ross]

Christopher, by the time the Acetone/Metol stock solution is diluted for use it would probably be safe to use in the CombiTanks, although I have never been inclined to test. As to the modern polyester base films there is no problem, however the old Celluloid films bases would probably disolve into a sticky mess.

Acetone/Metol and Acetone/Pyro are very old developers yielding beautiful negatives. The Acetone in combination with sulfite provides alkali to the developer.

[C. D. Keth]

I think I might have to try a 2500 series tank for manual agitation. I figure if inversion agitation doesn't work that well in them, I can always roll it on a countertop and mimic what the processor does for much less money.