Voigtlander & Sohn Braunschweig lens

[mpo]

Hi,

I have an old lens made by Voigtlander & Sohn Braunschweig. It is No 31097 so I think that puts it from around 1885. Can anyone tell me the exact year and anything else about it? It seems to be about a 6" focal length and has a rotating disc with aperture holes. Is this called waterstops? What does that mean? It looks like it could cover 2 1/4 maybe.

Thanks,

Mike

[David A. Goldfarb]

That sort of aperture mechanism is usually called "wheel stops." Waterhouse stops are usually thin metal sheets, each with one aperture, that slide into a slot in the lens barrel.

[Diane Maher]

Where did you find the information correlating the number on the lens to a year of manufacture? I am curious as I have a lens made by Voigtlander & Sohn too, but it is huge and has the Waterhouse stops.

[Ole Tjugen]

Hartmut Thiele has a list of serial numbers in "Deutsche Photooptik von A-Z".

no 27,450 to 39,465 were made in the years between 1884 and 1890...

BTW, wheel stops were usually used on wide angle lenses.

[mpo]

Where did you find the information correlating the number on the lens to a year of manufacture? I am curious as I have a lens made by Voigtlander & Sohn too, but it is huge and has the Waterhouse stops.

Hi,
I did some searching and found someone (I think on this site) that had one # 33xxx and the said it was 1887, and I found on another site one 38xxx I think that was 1889 so I just guessed. Also someone made a reference to a book you can buy on Ebay.

Is there any way to find out exactly the focal length etc of this lens?

Thanks,

Mike

[Ole Tjugen]

With that age and a wheel stop, it's very likely to be a Weitwinkel-Euryskop. The possible focal lengths (around 150mm) are 130mm, 160mm and 190mm. All of them will cover 5x7" at the smallest aperture; the 190 will cover 8x10" at the smallest aperture, the 130mm needs to be stopped down to cover 5x7".

BUT: Voigtländer at that time also made another series of WW-Euryskops with different focal lengths, as well as a wide angle Landscape lens - both with wheel stops. So if the focal length is around 6" and it has glass in both ends of the barrel, then it will cover 5x7". If there's glass only in one end, it's a Landscape lens, and it will cover 4x5".

[Diane Maher]

Cool, my lens is number 28872.

[mpo]

Hi Ole,

I focussed on something far away and measured to the mounting flange. This was 145mm. The barrel of this lens is 39mm outside diameter and the physical length of this lens is also 39mm. It has glass in both ends. The glass diameter visible in both ends is 15mm. So does this all mean I have the 150mm?

Thanks,

Mike

PS: Do you get to see Tina Nordstrom on TV in Norway? She is so beautiful!! But we don't get to see her much over here. I am in love...

[David A. Goldfarb]

Ole, if you have that reference handy, could you check my Petzval--14220? Thanks!

[venchka]

That makes my Collinear II No 108228 a youngster!

[BrianShaw]

Ole, if you have that reference handy, could you check ...

Reference... do you mean somehting like a book? All this time I thought Ole had all of that knowledge in his head! :)

[Ole Tjugen]

Mike, I would guess you have the 160mm.

Yes, we get Tina on TV. :)

David, 14.xxx is before my list, which starts with 27450 in 1884.

Wayne, your Collinar is between 1907 and 1913 - probably 1908 or so.

Brian, I have lots of stuff in my head - like basic lens constructions and the differences between them, and my opinion of every lens I've used. For the rest I have books. Some old, some new, some in English and some in German. I also happen to be very good at remembering where I saw what, which makes it easy to find any information I've ever seen. :)

[David A. Goldfarb]

Oh, well.

[venchka]

...

Wayne, your Collinar is between 1907 and 1913 - probably 1908 or so.



Thanks! I can't believe this lens is approaching 100 years old. It looks so well preserved. The proof is in the photos. Hopefully that will happen soon.

[mpo]

With that age and a wheel stop, it's very likely to be a Weitwinkel-Euryskop. The possible focal lengths (around 150mm) are 130mm, 160mm and 190mm. All of them will cover 5x7" at the smallest aperture

Hi Ole,
Yes, if I measure to the aperture wheel then it is 160mm. I suppose that is the right place to measure to? So I have some questions: What was the format this lens was designed for? What does Weitwinkel-Euryskop mean in English, if anything? What is this lens worth? Who would want it?

Thanks,

Mike

[Ole Tjugen]

Mike,

The correct place to measure to is really the front nodal point, but on most lenses that will be fairly close to the aperture. So the aperture is as close as all but the lens manufacturers can come.

The lens would have been made as a moderate wide angle lens for 13x18cm plates; just about 5x7".

"Weitwinkel" means "wide angle", and "Euryskop" was a name that Voigtländer used on a lot of different lenses.

Value is a difficult subject with this kind of lens. If I came across one on ebay I might bid as low as $20, or as high as $90, or possibly even more if it was a really nice one and I decided I needed it. Oddly enough I have several similar lenses in focal lengths from about 80mm to around 200mm, so there's no "big hole" in my collection i feel a need to fill. Now if it were a 400mm or 500mm, I would seriously consider a bank loan...

[Dan Fromm]

Front or rear, Ole?

[Ole Tjugen]

Front or rear, Ole?

?:confused:?

[Dan Fromm]

?:confused:?
Sorry for the lack of context. You wrote, I think about where to measure focal length from: "The correct place to measure to is really the front nodal point, but on most lenses that will be fairly close to the aperture. So the aperture is as close as all but the lens manufacturers can come."

[Ole Tjugen]

Ah yes. It's the front nodal point.

I had to draw a diagram of a telephoto lens to convince myself, but now I'm convinced.

[Dan Fromm]

Funny, I always thought that focal length was the distance from the rear node to the film plane with the lens focused at infinity. Please give a reference for F = distance from front node to film at infinity.

Now, with telephoto lenses the rear node is in front of the front node ...

[Ole Tjugen]

Dan, I think you're right.

I've been reading in six different books lately, and they're remarkably inconsistent in what they label H and what they label H'. Looking closer at the equations they finally get around to defining, they seeem to all refer to whatever is the rear node of a simple lens. Telephoto just confuses everything, as anyone who has ever tried to use one with front swings can attest. ;)

[Ernest Purdum]

If enough bellows extension is available, the exact (well exact depending on how accurately you can measure) focal length can be found by measuring the extension between that found with the lens focused at infinity and that when focused so as to obtain a 1:1 subject/image ratio.

If you cared to, once that is known you could find the plane of the lens from which matters related to focal length should be measured.