Hand holdable 54 and lens...

[Former Member 8144]

Hi all,

I have now found the need for a hand holdable 54 camera that uses helical focussing mount and a viewfinder.
This is both for one specific project where I want the extra image quality for large prints that I'll get over a 67 camera and also to use for print sale images where I weant that quality but can't take a tripod etc.

It does not need to have any movements just be as compact and light as possible, use helical focussing mounts and a viewfinder but use 54 sheet film.

It will be used with one lens only.

Any others to look at apart from the fotoman ps?

As for the lens..I'll post a thread in the lens forum!

Thanks,

Marc

[Bill_1856]

What focal length lens do you have in mind?

[Former Member 8144]

sorry..yes 90 to 120 max..i really like the field of view from my 110 but closer to 90 may be more of an allround lens. (more detail in thread in lens forum)

[Donald Qualls]

Not sure why you insist on a helical mount -- would a Speed or Crown Graphic do the job for you? It's probably a little heavier than something like, say, a Fotoman, but several hundred dollars cheaper, the Kalart rangefinder can easily be calibrated for lenses as short as 105 mm, and the camera will focus to infinity with a 90 mm for the Speed, 65 mm on a Crown (though you have to drop the bed to keep it out of the image with the shortest lenses, which limits focus travel; you can work around that by adjusting the position of the standard on the rail). Additionally, there's enough bed travel, combined with the ability to "jump the stops" (which fold out of the way on a Pacemaker model) and move the front standard to the end of the bed, to allow extreme macro, if that could ever be an issue (with a 110 to 120 mm, maybe even with a 90 mm on a Crown, without jumping the stops, you'd be able to focus to a couple feet on the ground glass, or about four feet with the RF -- that's the effective limit of the RF, generally). And you get limited movements -- enough to, for instance, correct perspective in an upward shot, within reason (and within coverage limits of the lens you mount, of course).

Best of all, if you don't want to keep the camera, you could probably resell a Pacemaker Speed or Crown for at least what you paid for it, six to twelve months down the road, and have use of the camera, effectively, for lending out of the purchase price, plus the cost of film.

[IanG]

Marc, I totally agree with Donald.

A Crown or Speed Graphic is a very practical hand held 5x4 camera, and there are plenty available. When I got my first I had no intention of ever using it hand held, I'd always used a tripod for LF work, but many of the sites I visit here in Turkey don't permit a tripod. So I gave it a try hand held, and the results are excellent.

In some ways I can understand why you'd like helical focussing, I recently bought a Gaoersi 6x17 camera and its easy to focus a 90mm or wider lens using the distance scale. Gaoersi make a 5x4 camera which is extremely reasonably priced. My 6x17 is extremely well made so I have no hesitation recommending the company, at the moment they sell direct from China, so prices are a lot less than Fotoman, but they are looking for dealers who will have to add their margin.

Gaoersi 5x4 (http://www.gaoersi-camera.com/cp_detail.php?id=8022&nowmenuid=3300&cpath=&catid=0)

Ian

[Donald Qualls]

In some ways I can understand why you'd like helical focussing, I recently bought a Gaoersi 6x17 camera and its easy to focus a 90mm or wider lens using the distance scale.

Well, worth remembering that there's a scale on the Speed Graphic's bed, too, and it's simple enough you can make your own to match any lens you care to mount. Cost to make a new focus scale for a Speed: about $1.50 for a strip of brass, plus five minutes with layout tools and a drill press to drill mounting holes, five minutes more with a round needle file to extend the holes to allow adjustment, and, at most, about fifteen minutes carefully focusing the ground glass on objects at measured distances and marking the appropriate positions on the scale, plus however long it takes you to engrave or otherwise mark the scale so it's readable -- that'd take me about a half hour with my Dremel, plus time for the paint wiped into the engraving to dry.

Sure, a Fotoman is cool, and it *is* a lot lighter than a Speed. All a question of what you want and need -- I'm just saying don't forget the old because the new looks so cool...

[Rob_5419]

Hi all,

I have now found the need for a hand holdable 54 camera that uses helical focussing mount and a viewfinder.
This is both for one specific project where I want the extra image quality for large prints that I'll get over a 67 camera and also to use for print sale images where I weant that quality but can't take a tripod etc.

It does not need to have any movements just be as compact and light as possible, use helical focussing mounts and a viewfinder but use 54 sheet film.

It will be used with one lens only.

Any others to look at apart from the fotoman ps?

As for the lens..I'll post a thread in the lens forum!

Thanks,

Marc

My Silvestri H does that - handholdable 5x4" format with a built-in eye-level spirit level viewfinder and a proper smooth calibrated helical focussing lens.

I use it with a 47mm XL Schneider Angulon lens (and it has 25mm of shift- strangely the image circle still covers up to 5mm of shift in either direction).

These Silvestris are incredibly under-rated. They are superb tools. I love mine. You might be in a long wait for a second-hand one, but that's because their users hang onto them - they're that good.

[Former Member 8144]

the speed graphics are certainly an option but they do seem to be a lot heavier than the others..around 2.4 kg over 1.1 of the fotoman, goersis, etc.(i've also seen one from a place called foto-arte here in the uk that looks very similar)
Are they also bulkier..I am trying to get something faily compact.

I've looked at the silvestris also such as the T30..I actually came across an H used about a year ago at a great price but was not looking of ranything like that at the time..unfortunately!

However this is very much a second camera to me for a specific project and the odd print sale shoot when I dont have my full 54 kit with me so can't really spend too much...which is where the speedgraphics come in of course...are there ny models that were more compact + light than others?

[John Kasaian]

Handheld 4x5 with hellical focus? Peter Gowland is your man! Check his website for his aerial models in particular.

[Ash]

Gowland cameras are very pretty. If you bought one I'd like to know what you think.

[Sandeha]

I find focusing just soo over-rated ...

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/Sandeha/large_format/th_la_neretta.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/Sandeha/large_format/la_neretta.jpg)


Angulon 90mm/6.8 ... F.32 and be there. :D

[Donald Qualls]

However this is very much a second camera to me for a specific project and the odd print sale shoot when I dont have my full 54 kit with me so can't really spend too much...which is where the speedgraphics come in of course...are there ny models that were more compact + light than others?

The Crown is basically like a Speed but with the focal plane shutter deleted. You can't use it with barrel lenses, but as long as you get the side-mounted Kalart RF, you can still calibrate the RF for most of the lenses you're likely to want to use (one lens calibrated at a given time, takes 20-30 minutes to recalibrate), and save about 1/3 or more of the weight of a Speed (as well as getting a camera that's comfortable with about 15 mm shorter lenses at the wide end, because the body is shallower without the focal plane mechanism taking up space). Several other brands of press camera from the 40s and 50s are similar to the Crown (almost none ever had a focal plane shutter option); the Burke and James is pretty common and inexpensive, the Linhoff Technika is expensive but again, can be resold for what you paid a year or two down the line, and there are still more obscure brands out there.

I'd stay away from the 9x12 cm plate cameras for what you're doing; not just the hassle of a different, almost-obsolete film format, but they're relatively hard to find holders for, and the holders (generally) are only single sided, not to mention requiring a film sheath (rarer even than the plate holders) for each one if you're using film instead of glass plates. They *are* awfully small and light for their image size, though; I have a couple 1920s vintage Ica/Zeiss Ideals that weigh less than half what my 45 Speed does, and are little more than half the volume when folded -- but I don't use them much because, though they have a bayonet lens mount, it's virtually impossible to find lenses/shutters with the Ideal bayonet on them 80 years after the cameras were made (and I've never gotten around to trying to make up a "bayonet plate" that would mount to an existing shutter), and most of my plate holders leak light through the velvet (and unlike most plate holders, these have fully enclosed velvet that's quite difficult to replace).