Kodak hardener in Ilford fixer?

[Eric Brody]

I recently switched from Kodak Rapid fixer, with the added hardener for film use, to Ilford Rapid Fix to support a company that still makes enlarging paper and seems to have a commitment to traditional photography. I just found out that the Ilford is a non-hardening fixer. While I handle my film very gently, I'd like to use a hardener. Reviewing the threads on fixer-hardener just confused me. Some said it prolonged the wash, others extolled the "billions" of sheets they'd processed in trays without a scratch even with no hardener. I now develop 4x5 in a Jobo Expert drum and 120 in a Nikkor-style tank.

I have quite a bit of Kodak hardener, since I never used it when mixing fixer for paper. Does anyone know, or could one of you chemists out there hazard a guess, if I could safely add it to the Ilford product?

Thanks for any responses.

Eric

[Andrew O'Neill]

I'm not a chemist but I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. On another note, I've been using Ilford's Rapid fix for many years for films and papers without any added hardener. I don't develop multiple sheets of film in a tray where you run the risk of scratching, mind you. Why would you want to put in a hardener when fixing paper?? Your wash times are shorter and toning is easier...

[Eric Brody]

I have never used hardener when fixing paper, nor does anyone I know, for the reasons cited by Andrew.

Eric

[Gene McCluney]

While most films these days are pre-hardened, there are still some, such as the Efke/Adox emulsions that are very soft, that using a hardening fixer would be a good thing.

[sog1927]

The Ilford data sheet for Rapid Fixer contains the following statement:

"ILFORD RAPID FIXER must not be used with fix hardeners."

I'm not sure why this is.

Steve

[Eric Brody]

Thanks Steve. I went online and looked it up and found the data sheet as well. I probably should have tried that first. I guess I'll be compliant and go with Ilford's recommendations on this one.

Eric

[evan clarke]

Hi Eric,
Which films do you want to harden??..Evan Clarke

[sog1927]

I emailed ILFORD support and asked them about this. They sent the following response:
-----------------------------------
[If you add hardener to our Rapid Fixer you will find that it will precipitate out in the solution and not work. However, we have a very similar product called HYPAM which is a rapid type fixer and can be used with acid hardeners. One we know that works well with Hypam is manufactured by a company in Oklahoma called Alta and sold under the Zonal Pro brand name;

http://www.altaphotographic.com/zonal.html

Many large dealers carry this product line.
--------------------------------------

I suspect you might be able to use the Kodak hardener with Hypam, but I'd try it with something
noncritical first;) .

Steve
QUOTE=Eric Brody;256427]Thanks Steve. I went online and looked it up and found the data sheet as well. I probably should have tried that first. I guess I'll be compliant and go with Ilford's recommendations on this one.

Eric[/QUOTE]

[Eric Brody]

Thanks Steve and hi Evan,

I use TMAX 100 and rarely TMAX 400 as my only black and white film. For color snapshots, I shoot digital.

Eric